Talk:Dora Richter
Latest comment: 5 days ago by Lilielbe2020 in topic Reversion of original research tag
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Reversion of original research tag edit
Hi Zoolver! Don't worry, I did read the linked references before I added that tag 😊. I added the [original research?] tag because it's directly linking a primary source for this claim, and neither source cited for this claim argues that this necessarily means that Richter was alive in 1934 or 35, and thus making that claim in the context of these inline citations would constitute original research. The veracity of the Carlotta Baronin von Curtius article I also find possibly questionable in particular, as there are other factual inaccuracies in the timeline she states such as saying that the Institut für Sexualwissenschaft closed in 1935, when in fact it closed in 1933. I think a better source for this claim would be the citation [1]https://lili-elbe.de/blog/2023/04/dora-richter-taufeintrag/ as that is a secondary source which does somewhat make the case claimed in the article, albeit less strongly. Just wanted to tag you here for discussion, hope this clarifies my edit! 🌸wasianpower🌸 (talk, contribs) 20:55, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
- "Original research" is an unreferenced claim, not a questionable but sourced one. Maybe you should have used "Better source needed" instead. That article doesn't fit into "primary source" either because it wasn't written by Richter herself, someone else wrote it and it was published in a magazine. It serves mostly to illustrate that Richter didn't die when Hirschfeld's institute was attacked as some articles written in the 2010s claimed, and that she owned a restaurant at some point.
- And from the link you suggested:
- "Nothing is known about Dora Richter's further whereabouts. As things stand today, we have one last trace with the name change in 1934, but there are still no sources for that date. There is only one statement from Charlotte Charlaque that Dora went to Karlsbad and opened a restaurant there (Wolfert 2021, p. 76)."
- The source mentioned on that article is the reference #5 right before Charlaque's article. Zoolver (talk) 22:04, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
- Apologies, I don't think that's a correct interpretation of what [original research?] means. From WP:NOR, which the tag links to: "This includes any analysis or synthesis of published material that reaches or implies a conclusion not stated by the sources." The article's claim based on the inline sources does seem to me like an instance of WP:SYNTH. Also just to clarify, when I said the Carlotta Baronin von Curtius was a primary source, I mean it is a primary source for the claim that she opened a restaurant at some point, and even if I didn't it would still be a primary source as it is a direct witness to Dora's life.
- Either way, I think the point is moot as it seems the solution is to add the lile-elbe source as an inline source for this claim? Though it would be nice to have a better source as that source does appear to be a self-published blog per WP:Blog. 🌸wasianpower🌸 (talk • contribs) 22:13, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
- Reference #5 is right there. It's a book. That's where the Lili-Elbe-Bibliothek got the claim from. Zoolver (talk) 22:19, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, but that book doesn't make the claim that the Carlotta Baronin von Curtius article means that Dora survived the attack on the Institut für Sexualwissenschaft. As far as I can tell, Lili-Elbe-Bibliothek is the only source in the article analyzing the article as such (I think this might be the fundamental source of confusion/disagreement on my part -- I don't think that claim follows directly from the Carlotta Baronin von Curtius article but I can see how someone could). Either way, Lili-Elbe-Bibliothek should serve as a fine source for now, I will go ahead and add that source to the claim with with a [better source needed] tag. 🌸wasianpower🌸 (talk • contribs) 22:25, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hi, I am the one who found the Czech sources for the name change in 1934 and census in 1939, i.e. Dora survived the attack on the Berlin institute and went back to her small home village. The article in the ONE magazine written by Charlotte Charlaque is not so reliable as Charlotte was somehow vague in her sayings. Nevertheless, Seifen/Ryzovna is not so far from Karlsbad/Karlovy Vary. And maybe Charlotte did'nt want to publish too exact data (maybe for privacy reasons) so she changed the home village (or a small town nearby) to Karlsbad and maybe even the job (Dora was baker by trade, originally). What stays unclear here is whether a) Dora survived after 1939 (there are small evidences for this) and b) if she was deported then in 1946 as most of the Germans there. Lilielbe2020 (talk) 13:10, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, but that book doesn't make the claim that the Carlotta Baronin von Curtius article means that Dora survived the attack on the Institut für Sexualwissenschaft. As far as I can tell, Lili-Elbe-Bibliothek is the only source in the article analyzing the article as such (I think this might be the fundamental source of confusion/disagreement on my part -- I don't think that claim follows directly from the Carlotta Baronin von Curtius article but I can see how someone could). Either way, Lili-Elbe-Bibliothek should serve as a fine source for now, I will go ahead and add that source to the claim with with a [better source needed] tag. 🌸wasianpower🌸 (talk • contribs) 22:25, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
- Reference #5 is right there. It's a book. That's where the Lili-Elbe-Bibliothek got the claim from. Zoolver (talk) 22:19, 31 March 2024 (UTC)