Talk:Doppelgänger/Archive 1

Archive 1

Evil Dead 2

C'mon, no reference to Evil Dead 2 and Good/Bad Ash? Everyone's favorite pop culture/fiction reference must be included in this article! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.53.59.87 (talk) 23:01, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Earthsea

Earthsea by Ursula K. Le Guin is a well known creation that alludes to the doppelganger with its plot. Perhaps it should be mentioned in the relevant section of the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.126.151.171 (talk) 22:51, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Inclusion of specific pop Cultural References?

While I value the strong academic and scientific status of this article, I propose that a few refences be used when they are relatively well-known and when they ACTUALLY USE THE TERM DOPPELGANGER. Like in Dungeons and Dragons, where it's been used for twp decades or so. Also, I propose that books, films, and shows that use evil doubles extensively without specifically using the name Doppelgänger(not just doubles, and not clones) extensively be ever so briefly mentioned if they are extremely well-known (such as, apparently, Stargate). Also (unless there are some very well known bands or authors) I think albums, books, films, and tv show episodes which use the word Dopplegänger as a title should be summed up in a sentence generalizing on this phenomenon. --RainbowWerewolf (talk) 13:57, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

All of this is dealt with in Doppelgänger (disambiguation) and Doppelgänger (Dungeons & Dragons), as well as List of fictional doppelgängers. Xanthoxyl 12:27, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Good point, but I could easily see how i might read the main article about Dopplegängers and assume that there are no direct cultural references using the same name of "dopplegänger". I think one or two sentences in this article could sum it up nicely and help point the reader towards that direction. I think the use of the word doppelganger in popular culture is significant because it points directly to the original German myth as discussed on this page.--RainbowWerewolf 15:28, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Major revert, May 2007

Several well-meaning editors working at cross-purposes managed to shred this article in late April. I tried to fix it up but in the end I have had to revert to the last usable version from mid-April. This was a last resort and I feel sure that most people comparing the two versions will understand why I did that.

The article is supposed to be about the claimed paranormal phenomenon, NOT about doubles in general, which in English are just plain "doubles". Please put discussion of the literary device in Doubles in fiction or Doubles in film and television. Xanthoxyl 06:36, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Miscellaneous remarks

At least for instances where the accents aren't being done right, shouldn't the spellings be changed to "Doppelganger"? There are numerous mentions of "Doppleganger" which I believe is not correct. Dr Sbaitso 00:51, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

hey this article should clearly specify that this is fantasy/folklore there are no such thing as doppleganger just like there are no vampires and werewolves ! Shodan 30 Dec 2005

I think its probably likely there is someone quite similar to you, and that would be a doppelganger. -Paul —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.146.98.222 (talk) 21:49, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Is it necessary to link to role playing games? Most fantasy creatures are found in RPGs, and in many other types of fiction, we don't list them all. 2toise 12:08, 3 Oct 2003 (UTC)

I'm also questioning the necessity of including the christian rock album and the sci-fi film. Who cares if a mediocre album or movie uses the term for its title? ---Anon.

What is meant by "It is not confirmed that seeing one’s doppelgänger is a sign of certain death. That is a myth, yet to be determined." This is (1) a very strangely constructed sentence, and (2) factually incorrect to refer to a "myth" as "yet to be determined." (Will we soon determine if mythical vampires actually fear garlic?)

• I rewrote this part:

There are a few characteristics of doppelgängers that are commonly accepted. Firstly, they are visible to no one but the person they are an image of. They cast no shadow and no reflection in a mirror or in water. They are also supposed to provide advice to the person they shadow, but this advice could be misleading or malicious. They could also, in rare instances, plant ideas in your mind or appear before friends and relatives, causing confusion. mainly to remove any cofusion about who can see a dopplegänger Paul Tracy 13:12, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Frogus: Editing this page - will remove unneccessary dungeons and dragons information to a new page Doppelgänger_(D&D) and look for some actual content :)

It seems to me that this article needs quite a bit of work. As I understand it, based on other readings, a doppelganger is the experience of seeing a person's double, or encountering your own double, physically: encountering yourself walking down the street for example, or seeing your teacher in two places at once. The Jekyll/Hyde story is not analogous to this; while the novel is certainly an important exploration of the duality of human nature, it's a different experience than the doppelganger experience. Similarly, the neurological phenomenon mentioned in the article is not the same experience; the "shadow twin" experienced there is not experienced as a full physical double encountered in every day life. Underpope 06:09, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Skeptic

"It is possible that this body can easily be one of Hitler's known doppelgängers, or only one of the rumours about the true end of the dictator". I MEAN, C'MON! "known doppelgangers"? Not only is the author assuming this stuff is real, he is also telling us that Hitler had MORE THAN ONE?

Unsigned, I have heard that Hitler had numerous duplicates, although I have no idea how many, how similar they were, or who did what. Same of course goes for Saddam. On the other hand, I also think the wording you quoted needs help. More research required. — FJ | hello 05:16, May 11, 2005 (UTC)

Body double, Doppelgänger, Look-alike

Recently I posted at WikiProject_Stub_sorting a suggestion to merge these into one article, and later retracted it because I'm not sure this is necessarily the best thing to do. Nevertheless, I still think the three types of person duplicates should be woven together cohesively somehow, even if not into a single article. — FJ | hello 05:23, May 11, 2005 (UTC)

Doppelgänger in literature and film

This section has seriously watered down the scope of Doppelgänger. Frankenstein monsters, Jekyl/Hyde alter-egos, phantom multiple personalities and twin brothers are most certainly not Doppelgängers! All the more reason to try to bring some coherance to Body double, Doppelgänger and Look-alike. — FJ | hello 03:28, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC)

Response to criticism about inclusion of Dr. Jekyll, Frankenstein

According to Hillel Schwartz (The Culture of the Copy, 1996)Fyodor Dostoyevsky “was writing The Double in 1845… after fifty years of Doppelgangers, during which period European authors transformed the old Scandinavian and Slavic Double from a shape-shifting figure of divine protection to a spectral presentiment of disaster.” Similarly, Andrew Webber, in Doppelganger: Double Visions in German Literature, asserted that "The Doppelganger – innocently realistic in its apparent shape – is thus none the less akin to the monstrosity of such Gothic experiments in the miscreation of subjectivity as those of Jekyll or Frankenstein.” It is my humble opinion that the Doppelganger is both a mythical phenomenon and literary device. Jekyll and Frankenstein represent two examples of the Romantic use of that device. Romantic writers utilized the Doppelganger to discuss the nature and complications of the dual self. These two works illustrate such themes.

The doppelganger is a phenomenon of neurological origin observed only by the subject and not by others present in the environment or elsewhere. Please don't confuse it with paranormal entities or results of waking dreams (another neurological phenomenon) as those originating the Frankenstein story. For similarly related neurological phenomena see nightmare (older meaning) and sleep paralysis. Jclerman 08:14, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

As the unsigned editor above indicates, the article is covering more than just the neurological phenomenon. It would be good to make clear the differences between the neuro phenom and the other uses, but the literary/mythological usages remain valid. Jgm 20:19, 1 December 2005 (UTC

I'd suggest the creation of a separate article, Doubles in literature. The word "doppelgānger", in English, properly refers to the paranormal only. Xanthoxyl 17:11, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Unattributed quote

Somewhere, in a parallel universe, your evil twin exists. Identical to you in every physical attribute, its mind is twisted, evil and hell-bent on destruction; it is everything you are not. Occasionally a doppelganger stumbles upon a portal into our universe, and there are many twins living quietly among us, their powers weakened by the Earth. However, if by chance your twin should cross your path and make eye contact with you, his evil will be unleashed.

Who wrote this? It sounds like a quote from a novel. I think the quote could be best used in a different place, but I'd like an attribution, too. SimonFr 16:10, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

I say that it is to be removed or at least moved somewhere else until the source of the phrase is cleared. It's in a really oddball place and seems to be somewhat contradictory. What if the person is evil? Does that make the Doppleganger good? For every "evil" doppleganger tale I hear, I've heard of one where the doppleganger was kind and sweet or at the very least, harmless.

The German word

I think it could be interesting to mention that although the word is adopted from German language, the German word Doppelgänger just means Look-alike. --217.229.113.209 14:36, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

I think, in German, Doppelgänger can mean 1) an impersonator who acts without being seen (just talking or writing etc., not necessarily a look-alike) or 2) an impersonator who also looks like that other person (useful, if acting visually :-)) or 3) just a look-alike (without doing something). – Schöne Grüße --Suaheli (talk) 20:34, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Duden defines Doppelgänger as follows:

Dop|pel|gän|ger, der; -s, -: Person, die jmdm. zum Verwechseln ähnlich sieht: einen D. haben.

© Duden - Deutsches Universalwörterbuch, 6. Aufl. Mannheim 2006 [CD-ROM].

That is, the only meaning given there is the look-alike. Your meaning 1) would by the way never come to my mind. To me, as a native speaker of German, the look-alike definition gives the correct and only "standard" reading of the word. 82.135.71.104 (talk) 06:46, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Vardøgr

Some years ago I read about a subset of Doppelgängers, called Vardøgrs - literally meaning 'Forerunners', in Swedish or Norweigan, I believe. Apparently they were the equivalent of 'future echoes', where people would appear to perform actions or be in places before they got there - an example given was someone booking into a hotel, then arriving at the hotel the next day and performing the same routine again. I'd like to add a little info about them on here, but I can't find much online at all, nothing on Wikipedia. If anyone else can add some information it might be interesting. Slavedriver 15:17, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

There's a separate article now. Xanthoxyl 17:11, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

DNA thing really a joke?

As stated straight off the Slate webpage (See article here.):

"On the other: the Cypriot Baghdatis, 21, long-haired, charismatic, flashy. Agassi, in the final tournament of his career, seemed to be playing against himself—the 21-year-old, image-is-everything Andre Agassi. Need any more proof that these guys have the same DNA? Hell, they were even wearing different-colored versions of the same shirt."

On the edit history someone named Urutapu said this was a joke? (The edit can be seen here.) I don't think Slate would be lying on this?

I just need some verification because I don't want to start an Edit War..... (someone has a citation?) --AverageAmerican 03:20, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

You can't possibly take the Slate reference literally, can you?!

correct form of word

I'm putting this in the talk section, instead of editing the article as I am not familiar enough with wikipedia style. Could someone who is look into this?

The problem is the word "doppelganger". The article uses a spelling that is impossible. To clarify: the article uses the spelling "doppelgänger". In English, the word does not have an umlaut, as no words do in English. In German, nouns are capitalized. Thus, the form used is not a word in English or German.

Before anyone flames this, please consider that I care about the English language, but am not familiar with wikistyles. I find it sad that people use foreign loan words when we have an English equivalent. If we borrow words, they should be italicized or set off typographically and include diacritical marks. However, if wikipedia has a different standard, that is fine, just consider this comment an objection to that use of English.

I think that many English-speakers get excited when they get to use foreign punctuation marks or the German Eszett. But if an English word exists we should use it in an English encyclopedia. By all means, include information on the German etymology, such as "doppelganger" coming from the German doppelgänger which means "look-alike".

Finally, to avoid flames about the umalut comment: English words may use a dieresis, but even that is deprecated by most current users (other than "The New Yorker" magazine). Either way, they are not umlauts. Another way of thinking about this is that "ä" is one unit in German and is a vowel that does not exist in English as it not part of our alphabet.

The solution is to replace all instances of the word doppleganger with the English spelling, except for the etymological note, which would would mention the German word (but clearly set off typographically as a foreign word).

Miriam-Webster and Dictionary.com both prefer the spelling given in the Wikipedia article.

• http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=doppelganger
• http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/doppelganger

Can you provide a source for your argument?

--Suttkus 02:06, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

The English language does permit borrowed letters: e.g. "café", which is rarely spelt "cafe" or italicised. The idea that these letters are "not allowed" and will be confiscated by the Scrabble Police is nonsense. They are only omitted when they are impractical. Xanthoxyl 21:42, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Abraham Lincoln???

Am I the only one who thinks the premonition in the mirror can't exactlly be attributed as a fully blown Doppleganger type phenomenom? I think that story should go under some form of foreshadowing or something. It's doesn't seem to be relevant since it was a reflection of sorts. CharlieP216

If you ask me, Lincoln just over exaggerated when he saw himself in the mirror under some bad lighting. But, meh, it could be true. UnDeRsCoRe 23:55, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Very true, coincidence? Maybe....CharlieP216 12:32, 18 October 2006

Personally, I've never heard this. While I'm no history buff, I'm akin to say that this is likely to have been fabricated by the imagination of some speculating fool post-Lincoln much like people have done with 9/11. I'd say remove it unless someone has a source for it. trucex

The citation demand in the popular culture section

There's a citation demand on the sentence, "Doppelgängers appear in a variety of science fiction and fantasy works, in which they are a type of shapeshifter that mimics a particular person or species for some typically nefarious reason." Do we really need a citation for this? Pretty much every bit of popular culture I've encounted on Doppelgänger makes the creature out to be malicious. I doubt anyone's actually done a comprehensive literature review on the topic, and while there are certainly non-malicious shape-shifters out there, surely that the vast majority are presented as dangerous (as, indeed, almost everything unusual is) is simply common knowledge. Is keeping the citation demand there justified? --Suttkus 20:05, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Popular culture references too long?

There are way too many "references" in the popular culture list. Now, I'm a type who's actually more okay with "trivia" than most on WP, but this is just ridiculous in length, and many entries are just too random. More generally, I don't think it's verified. For example:

• Peter Howitt's Sliding Doors (1998), starring Gwyneth Paltrow. The two characters never meet, but their separate lives influence each other.

Actually, the point of sliding doors is what a difference a random event can have in one person's life. The film is two-in-one, cross-cut for dramatic effect. Presented singly, they would have less impact, and not really be film-worthy. Both characters are THE SAME PERSON. Their "separate lives" do not "influence each other", coincidences are merely aspects of the same event happening to the same person and being interpreted similarly. 99.141.126.196 (talk) 05:39, 12 October 2010 (UTC)acespot

The article makes it quite clear that this was a case of examining what would have happened in slightly different situations concurrently; they are parallel timelines, which is not the same.

• John Knowles' novel, A Separate Peace (1959), whose main character, Gene Forrester, is immensely jealous of Phineas (Finny), his roommate, and eventually hurts him and replaces him (note the "Olympics" when Phineas insisted that Gene act as his replacement).

This is just nonsense. There's not even a mistaken identity here.

For actual dopplegangers- evil twins, clones, etc., there may be an argument for keeping some of them. That said, the use of doppleganger for just "mistaken identity" purposes is way too broad a net, and no list can even hope to scratch the surface. SnowFire 04:57, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

• Cloud Strife of Final Fantasy VII has numerous doppelgangers who explain his past to him when he falls into the life stream. He also lives in the shadow of Zack, the mercenary whom he believes he is.

On second thought, I'm nuking now. When 75% of the references I do know are just wrong in some way, that isn't a good sign for the ones I'm not familiar with. SnowFire 06:41, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

What about Kirby?

His copying powers sort of make him a form of a doppelgänger. This is further exploited in the Super Smash Bros series, where he can even attain the host character's headgear. Should Kirby be mentioned in some way? Totema1 18:31, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Two Buffy references?

Maybe we could add two "Buffy, the Vampire Slayer" episodes: "The Wish" (Season 3, Episode 9) and "Doppelgängland" (Season 3, Episode 16). Nancy.Gallant 20:25, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Quick question for the males here: informal poll

Males: does the following statement by Otto Weininger ring true to you?

In his philosophical text entitled Sex and Character, philosopher Otto Weininger writes that: "Or again, consider this: no animal is made afraid by seeing its reflection in a glass, whilst there is no man who could spend his life in a room surrounded with mirrors. Can this fear, the fear of the doppelgänger, (it is notable that women are devoid of this fear; female doppelgängers are not heard of) be explained on Darwinian principles? The word doppelgänger has only to be mentioned to raise a deep dread in the mind of any man. Empirical psychology cannot explain this; it reaches the depths" (Second part: Chapter IX). --Wassermann 15:01, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

So, if you are a male and have just finished reading the above paragraph, does the thought of or reflection upon a doppelgaenger actually leave you filled with an irrational sense of "deep dread" that defies "empirical psychology"? Thanks for any answers...--Wassermann 15:01, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

While I am not male, I must contest against that statement Weininger made (Vine-in-ger, right?). Female dopplegangers exist. Just look at some of the things mentioned in this article! Wilhelmina Will (talk) 08:35, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Well I for one feel like shaking in the corner after reading this article and I'm male. This is the most freaked out I've felt in a long time after reading anything, but then it's proboly because it reminded me of my doppelganger I saw when I was younger.--TailsClock (talk) 09:31, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

more stargate references please

I profoundly regret deleting the references to television's "Stargate" series in the "Literature" section. I would very much like to turn back time on that one, I was being far too hasty.

Also, someone should incorporate into the 'Literature' section that episode of "Friends" where Rachel starts dating a guy that looks just like Ross right after she breaks up with Ross (the FIRST time they break up hahaha).

Hey everybody: I hope you don't care if I BLOW YOUR MINDS!!! That character WAS Ross!!! Don't freak out guys! It was just the same ACTOR as played Ross, playing the PART of that guy. I know it's hard to fathom, but everybody on 'Friends' is just an actor! No seriously, I'm being for real! They're actors!

Anyways, somebody should put that 'Friends' reference in the Literature section. Then they could watch as this page on dopplegranges sets a new standard for encyclopedic excellence.

Also, someone please insert more "Stargate" references into any and every part of this article. I suggest this because a recent scientific survey (citation needed) proved conclusively that no American can comprehend an encyclopedic article (or, for that matter, any type of article) that does not explicitly refer to a specific episode of Stargate.

Lunchboxface 10:02, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Otto Weininger

What exactly is the point of the "Otto Weininger" section, such as it is - except that it shows W.'s obvious limitations? "Female doppelgangers are unheard of", "men cannot live surrounded by mirrors" etc. - that's all BS. Unless it's complemented by the appropriate citations, I suggest the section would be best erased.

Corny, isn't it? I'll delete it. Xanthoxyl 10:09, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

New Lincoln Evidence

I think a mention of Lincoln's severe strabismus is completely pertinent to the article, given that such a disorder would have created the instances of doppelgänger observation noted in the mirror opposite. Should this be added? -EarthRise33 17:11, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I'm going to go ahead and add it, having found the medical documentation for it. -EarthRise33 17:13, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Should this one be included?

I don't know what makes a "famous" encounter with a doppelganger, but would this one do? [1] It's the third or fourth one down, under the title "Screaming Doppelganger - Victoria, British Columbia". Wilhelmina Will (talk) 08:40, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Only if there is detailed information which can be attributed to a book or article. Xanthoxyl (talk) 12:45, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Help-info

What do dopplegangers look like?? --81.1.107.234 (talk) 17:21, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

The first sentence of this article says: In the vernacular, "Doppelgänger" has come to refer (as in German) to any double or look-alike of a person. 68.253.219.36 (talk) 18:18, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

I didnt see any mention of the book doppelganger anywhere on wikipedia but the creature doppelganger has boulbousey bug eyes and a greyish skin by the way people a great book —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.60.159.48 (talk) 07:48, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

In fiction

The "In fiction" section had turned into a Very Long List, which seems to duplicate List of fictional doppelgängers. I've moved the list to the talk page of that article so that the content can be merged there. --01:50, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

The unborn

I am sure the unborn (recent film) was about dopplegangers, only these one's were taken over by a demon. Can anyone tell me if i am wrong about this? Assyria hightower (talk) 20:43, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Book

Another book mentioning Doplengangers is Physik, by Angie Sage. In it, Princess Esmeralda finds an identycal princess from the future and yells "aah! Im done fr! It is my doplenganger!" or something similar --200.116.151.79 (talk) 23:26, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

OoMmGee

its freaking my out because ive seen this in real life this is talking about people seeing it in mirros and stuff so what does that mean and the thing is that i see everyday and i told my teacher becasue she studyed that all her highschool years and she said its not bad but it said an OMEN of DEATH since i see it in life im i gonna die i see it everyday! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.237.144.249 (talk) 01:10, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Bad cite/entry: Borges is not Talmud

In the Talmud, to meet himself [sic] is to meet God...

is referenced to a fictional work of Borges, who often set up his fictions with snappy and profound leads. Nonetheless, a secondary cite, which may be false (as are almost all Borges' spooky pseudo historical quotes--cannot be included w/o a source from the Talmud or from an authoritative secondary source on it.Shlishke (talk) 04:39, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

I have not yet taken any action in this. Comments?

Left temporoparietal junction section -- citation

Upon reading the cited article (in Nature), it definitely doesn't cover all the information in this section. Maybe the correct article is the one referenced in this article? I can't access it -- could whoever wrote this section have another look? QMarion II (talk) 01:43, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Despair

I would like to add the novel Despair by Nabokov, to the popular culture section, as it seems to make a distinct contribution to the mythology which isn't otherwise covered. SPOILER ALERT- if you are planning on reading the novel DO NOT read the synopsis in the article! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tigerboy1966 (talk • contribs) 08:32, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Title

Why is the German word used for this article? Is it really common to use this German word in English-speaking countries? --Behnam Lot (talk) 03:37, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

Yes. Particularly for the paranormal concept. Xanthoxyl ^< 04:21, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

E.T.A Hoffmann

I think E.T.A. Hoffmann should definetivly be mentioned in this article! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.54.112.217 (talk) 16:44, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

Nintendo

In the legend of zelda they is a doppelganger of link called either Shadow Link or Dark Link who copy the players attacks. Also in super mario galaxy you often race a darker version in a comet challenge thing. Also they is a doppelganger of samus called SA-X although its more of a parasite. in Metal Gear Solid 4 at the end Liquid Ocelot says "I am liquids doppelganger". so I think these or some of these is worthy enough to mention. --109.78.20.101 (talk) 20:36, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Doctor Who's use of doppelgangers.

I was wondering if it would be appropriate to include some reference to the use of doppelgangers in the latest Doctor Who series?

The Rebel Flesh and the Almost People are the two main episodes involving doppelgangers, in which the crew of a factory have doppelgangers made of themselves to do dangerous work in their factory. At first the workers control the gangers, but after a solar tsunami they lose control and the gangers rebel against them, determined to kill the real version of themselves. A doppelganger of the Doctor is created during this episode.

At the end of the episode it is revealed that Amy is actually a doppelganger and that her real self is being kept prisoner somewhere else.

I don't know how much should be included, but at least a remark about the use of doppelganger in popular culture would be warranted. 210.48.101.90 (talk) 01:32, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

Doppelgangers in "How I Met Your Mother"

The How I Met Your Mother TV Series uses the concept of doppelgangers in seasons 5 and 6. The main characters were interested in finding their own doppelgangers in the New York city, and by Season 6 they had completed their quest and found all five doppelgangers (played by the same actors who played the main characters). Do you think this would be an interesting mention in the "Popular Culture" section?-ADTC (talk) 14:41, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

November 21st 2008 - Todd Morris age 15

on the 21st of november 08 i was getting my stuff ready for school intil suddenly i encountered a shadow and thought of it as nothing then when i went over to my mirror where my school timtable is i saw i face although it looked like me but it had black eyes and was wearing a black suit i moved closer and staired at it then it just disappeared. this was a very scary experience but what, made me upset was that noone believes me and thinks im lying but what i wanted to know is was it a doppelganger or me just seeing things

— Preceding unsigned comment added by ToddTomMorris93 (talk • contribs) 11:23, 24 January 2009‎ {UTC)

Newsvine

As of April 2006, Newsvine.com trademarked the term Doppelganger (sans umlaut marks). I suggest we no longer re-direct this page to doppelgänger. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.183.137.114 (talk) 06:59, 15 August 2006‎ (UTC)

Well I'm not usre I agree with the the statemnet they are only visible to ones self. When I was younger my mother experienced my double that would open her bed room door wave at her to follow me and wander into the next room. She would always get out of bed to follw me as if I had something to show her and I would no longer be in the living room, but she would find me in my bed fast asleep with no way back to my room once I left the hall into the living room without passing her. After her first experience she would leave the TV on in her room thinking she had dreamt it and she could see better what "it" was in the dark. To her surprise "I" or my other self had returned to her room several other times during the night, but would never respond when she would speak to me. So it kinda freaked me out after she told me what she was experiencing. Whatever it was was identical to me, close enough to fool my mother. I never became seriously ill and am not dead, nor is my mother. I am however Native American and do have several Medicine Men in my family, who currently await "the one" for my generation, so I'd like to hope it was some kind of divine message or something. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.88.105.60 (talk) 17:52, 13 July 2007‎ (UTC)

want to add to list of books about doppelgangers

I wanted to add Charles Williams' novel "Descent into Hell" (1937) to the list of books about doppelgangers, but I am too computer illiterate to figure out the instructions on how to edit a page. There is a Wikipedia page on Charles Williams which should be linked to this reference, if it is added. Can some kind person please do this? Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.33.61.109 (talk) 07:23, 8 October 2005‎ (UTC)

71.33.61.109 20:58, 10 October 2005 (UTC)addition to page

I added Jose Saramago's "O Homem Duplicado" and Charles Williams' "Descent into Hell" to the list of literary doppelgangers. This is the first time I've tried to do this, so I may have not done it properly. Please edit. Thanks. h_wiebelfetzer@yahoo.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.33.61.109 (talk) 20:58, 10 October 2005‎ (UTC)

ghost or ghosts?

i was reading the portuguese version of the article (that reminds me that the link is missing) and there says that the doppelganger is ONE evil spirit that takes the form and etc. but in this article this isn't clear. so, it's one evil spirit that takes lots of forms or there is one to each person? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.10.55.124 (talk) 19:28, 14 March 2006‎ (UTC)

Explanation

The explanation of what a doppelganger is could be more clear. I still can't tell what it really is by the article. Is it ethereal? material? How is it different from an evil twin? etc. Does ghostly mean it is a ghost, or merely like one? There are plenty of examples, but this seems odd with a lacking explanation of what one is in the first place. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tim Long (talk • contribs) 03:22, 30 April 2006‎ (UTC)

literature section

where did someone found doppelgangers in Lord of the Rings?! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.25.237.29 (talk) 20:17, 15 May 2006‎ (UTC)

Kingdom Hearts reference?

There is clearly a doppelganger element in the video game Kingdom Hearts, as well as many others, which you might read about #REDIRECT [[<a href="http://www.answers.com/topic/doppelg-nger">here</a>. This should be included in the Fiction section of the artivle ]] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.233.25.236 (talk) 07:43, 23 February 2007‎ (UTC)

Where is Goethe?

You know - J. W. Goethe, the famous German poet etc.? His was a very famous account of a doppelgänger. One would expect it to be included in the relevant Wikipedia article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.142.146.72 (talk) 20:15, 2 August 2007‎ (UTC)

Vampire Diaries

Shouldn't you mention series The Vampire Diaries under the section "In popular culture"? Elena Gilbert is a doppelgänger of Katherine Pierce. The series is pretty popular right now. I'd do it, but my English is not that good and I'm affraid I'm going to mess something up ...--Renesemee (talk) 18:20, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

I'm going to edit it now.--SNTMcentral (talk) 22:06, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved (WP:SNOW) Armbrust, B.Ed. ^{WrestleMania XXVIII} _{The Undertaker 20–0} 17:36, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

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Doppelgänger → Doppelganger – In Wikipedia common titles are used, see Wikipedia:Article_titles#Common_names. In English, it is common to drop the umlaut, writing doppelganger.. Fluffystar (talk) 12:59, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

• No thanks the word is vividly German, and the alteration is too obviously a misspelling. Compare café. Xanthoxyl ^< 20:11, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
• Support, as this is the English language Wikipedia & there's no diacritics in the English alphabet. GoodDay (talk) 20:29, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

Ttt.

• Oppose firstly you're misreading Wikipedia:Article_titles#Common_names, secondly per reliable-for-purpose sources Google Scholar and WP:RS. Cheers. In ictu oculi (talk) 03:24, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose no evidence that doppelganger is the common name. mgeo talk 19:45, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
• I see that the umlautless form is used a lot (movies and others), so I think I'll stay neutral on this one. mgeo talk 23:01, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose - the umlaut is preserved in English, as evidenced by Merriam-Webster [2], Oxford Dictionaries [3], Dictionary.com lists it as an allowable form [4]. Assertions that there are no diacritics in the English language are clearly false: aside from the diaeresis (e.g. coöperate) which admittedly has become rare in modern usage, foreign words often preserve accents (e.g. café to take another exmple). 46.126.76.193 (talk) 07:11, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose; I accept that some users of the word have dropped the umlaut, but we need not repeat their error. We can use the more accurate spelling which is - still - backed by reliable sources.
• Support; It is not important how it is written in German or in a scientific context. Even the article states that it is common to drop the diacritic. It is only important how it is common in English. More than the half of the entries of the disambig page are without diacritic. A google search (it is important to put a "+" before the word to differ between a and ä) brings twice as much results for +doppelganger than for +doppelgänger. --77.64.199.186 (talk) 13:46, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose. This is not about the disambig page which is discussed over there. In everyday language people use the word doppelga(ä)nger as synonym of double,twin,lookalike etc. That informal use may be written without the umlaut as with the film etc. But this article is about a figure in germanic folklore, a psychological figure etc, which deserve the more precise title. Sussexonian (talk) 09:50, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose. This is not an English word, so the argument "there are no diacritics in English" is irrelevant. Things should be spelled how they are spelled in reliable sources, which is overwhelmingly correctly. eldamorie (talk) 14:01, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose. Commonly used in English with the diacritic (see an article from today or last week) and the claim that there are no diacritics in English is false (English words with diacritics). -- JHunterJ (talk) 19:45, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose I have to admit I'm not really a fan of our anglocentric naming system. For an article about a German word we should use the German spelling. ThemFromSpace 22:00, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:DIACRITICS: "The use of modified letters ... in article titles is neither encouraged nor discouraged; when deciding between versions of a word which differ in the use or non-use of modified letters, follow the general usage in reliable sources that are written in the English language". English-language dictionaries tend to either prefer or only list doppelgänger (see American Heritage, Chambers 21st Century, Merriam-Webster's Collegiate, Oxford Dictionary of English, etc.). SSR (talk) 06:40, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose; German spelling and diacritics is the best and most accurate way possible to represent the title of articles with German subject matter. "Doppelganger" redirects here, so there is no confusion, and thus no possible benefit to a move. That joke about the "English alphabet" was a good one. Evanh2008 ^{(talk|contribs)} 22:09, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Why not moved

I didn't vote or comment in the recent RM, but here you can see the evolution of the usage for this word in English books since 1950: Google Ngram viewer
I really wonder: what does it take before we can agree that the anglicized version of a word has taken over? And since tools like this now allow us to see the actual usage of a word in all books, is there something to say for using this a bit more in RM? Cheers.MakeSense64 (talk) 05:55, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

I have opened a section about this here Wikipedia_talk:Article_titles#Google_Ngrams. You are welcome to weigh in. MakeSense64 (talk) 07:38, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

I hadn't noticed this rm. I never knew it was spelled any other way than doppelganger, having had it on an English spelling test way back in grade school. I guess it'll take a few more years of the English spelling it diacritic-free before this changes on wikipedia? Fyunck(click) (talk) 09:09, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

That reasoning relies on the assumption that OCR can be relied on for diacritics, which is false for English-language text, and would have the effect of forcing Wikipedia to deliberately lower its own accuracy. Xanthoxyl ^< 11:02, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

Strange "translation"

Providing the literal translation "double walker" of the German word "Doppelgänger" is misleading. "Doppelgänger" means something more like a "lookalike". Joreberg (talk) 16:00, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Being a German, I very much agree to this. "Doppelgänger" does not bear a paranormal connotation in German, rather means a physical lookalike. It would be nice to have this explained in the introducing section, maybe next to or even instead of "double walker". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.145.234.251 (talk) 20:04, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

Twin Peaks

...deserves a mention. Doppelgangers played a huge part in its mythology. Google "Twin Peaks doppelganger" and see. 108.93.144.242 (talk) 23:23, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Internet Useage

The term "doppelganger" is also applied to a false persons created by one party involved in internet discussion. That party is secretly creating the postings of the doppelganger to substantiate and support his own position in the discussion, thus appearing as though some other, third person, was substantially agreeing with the party.

This is very common useage of the term and deserves mention in the article.99.2.69.235 (talk) 16:39, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

Added entry in "In popular culture" for the 12th episode of Hammer House of Horror, "The Two Faces of Evil". Cracking series.Treagle (talk) 18:38, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

Fork for original research; delete article

This whole article is a content fork for original research by some editor(s) in order to arbitrarily establish random terminology and theories by means of false synthesis. None of the original folkloric English or German sources uses the term doppelgaenger, nor does the German term signify any folkloric, religious, or esoteric phenomena or the likes (the latter fact having been pointed out several times on this talkpage before), although the article once literally claims and indirectly suggests by its very existence as well as throughout its entire content such an "original meaning" in any of the two languages falsely.

What this article really is about is the modern pop culture mem of the evil twin, preposterously trying to give it some ancient folkloric credibility as a cultural phenomenon by giving it a mysteriously-sounding foreign name that actually holds no such suggested established folkloric meaning whatsoever in either language, and pointing to instances in mythology that would be much better suited at the alter ego article. It's also possible that the original author(s) accidentally confused the German term Doppelgänger for the similarly-named, but actually established folkloric or occult concept of a Wiedergänger, which is German for "undead" or "zombie" with no specific lookalike characteristics. That's not to say that no evil twin fiction exists in modern pop culture, or that no alter ego myths would exist in history, but this article is trying to arbitrarily establish false terminology via original research, content forking, and false synthesis, to try and thereby pass it for genuine, which it isn't.

I still remember this article from a few years ago when it only consisted of the Goethe quote and claimed that Doppelgänger would be a genuine evil twin myth allegedly attested by that exact very name in ancient pagan Germanic mythology, similar to trolls, kobolds, or lindworms that really are attested by those names in pagan Germanic and/or Norse mythology (just as Goethe's Erlking, actually). Looks like what has happened in the meantime is that it's been pointed out that no such genuine ancient Germanic doppelgaenger myth ever existed by that name, so its supporters tried to save this article by now falsely claiming that it would be the acquired English meaning while still suggesting some ancient genuineness as the meaning presented in this content fork article being the "original meaning" somehow in either English or German, by pointing to ancient or Medieval alter ego myths instead.

In any case, this article that's deliberately trying to establish false terminology deserves to be entirely scrapped and all its content still considered notable should be dumped at either evil twin or alter ego. Better do it sooner than later, before sources outside of Wikipedia will begin citing this article or be influenced by it, and which then in turn will be used to justify this content fork here on Wikipedia. --2.240.228.185 (talk) 09:17, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Okay, upon further inspection, it seems that a game designer of Swiss (that is, German-speaking) origin has introduced the word as a name for some shape-shifting creatures in the modern table-top game Dungeons & Dragons in the 1970s, but not even that has much to do with what this article is falsely trying to establish, as it's not about shape-shifting. The fact that Doppelganger (Dungeons & Dragons) is a valid article for a modern pop-cultural D&D character does not validify this content fork article here that tries to establish some genuine ancient or Medieval pagan doppelgaenger myth. --2.240.228.185 (talk) 10:12, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

I believe I have seen my 'doppleganger' it was decades ago, it still intrigues me to this day. The 'Mental Illness' explanation does not seem to explain my observation, there needs to be a number of other symptoms for 'halucinations' to be present, if it was a 'practical joke' it must have cost a fortune to stage. Over the years I discovered other people who had seen their doubles, all of us report the same sinario, it is a completely pointless and very brief meetings, no words exchanged and no drama at all. Johnwrd (talk) 02:48, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

I added back "tradition of the Talmud, to meet oneself means to meet God." with fact tag

See also: Talk:Talmud § Does_the_Talmud_say_.22to_meet_oneself_means_to_meet_God.22.3F, and Talk:+1_(film)

Dialogue from the movie plus one +1 (film):

"Maybe we don't have less to worry about then we think"

"What do you mean"

"If the universe is really infinite - it means mathematically there must be replicas of our solar system, out there"

"You've gotta be kidding me."

"Look just because they exist [doubles of ourselves] doesn't mean they are out to get us"

"She's right..."

"Yeah, and how do you figure?"

"From the book of Talmud, to meet ones self is to meet God."

I did a Google search:

Talmud, to meet ones self is to meet God

...and found a reference to an old August 2011 quote from an old version of this Wikipedia article:

http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/020221.html

" In some myths, the doppelgänger is a version of the Ankou, a personification of death; in a tradition of the Talmud, to meet oneself means to meet God."

I added back "tradition of the Talmud, to meet oneself means to meet God." with fact tag.

Can anyone help me reference this? I will look more myself. Wikia6969 (talk) 09:34, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

As I remember, this was a tradition of the Sabians of Harran, and quoted by al-Ghazali, "he who knows himself knows his Creator": it's a version of the Delphic maxim "know oneself". I don't know of anything like it in the Talmud. --Sir Myles na Gopaleen (the da) (talk) 12:04, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

2008 Australian psychological horror film Lake Mungo

Hey!!! How about the australian horror movie Lake Mungo!!!! Why isn't it in the list?? Someone please put it in213.108.172.82 (talk) 23:11, 27 August 2016 (UTC) Rustam from Russia

No folklore

It appears that this article is trying to suggest (see WP:SYN) a kind of "genuine folklore" about some pagan mythological Doppelgänger creature similar to a shape-shifter or other kind of supernatural entity in German(ic) folklore, associated with creepy and disturbing folktales. However, any religious scholar or philologist would be hard-pressed to find any such myth of that name. That's because the word Doppelgänger was never associated in German with any mythology or folklore, whether today or in earlier times. It simply means a person who looks very much like another, and there's nothing mythological or supernatural about it. --79.193.62.124 (talk) 16:03, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

What about Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde--the most classic example.Aeroadam (talk) 20:01, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

What are the chances that such a person would exist... It doesn't even make sense. It means at least one (if not both) of the parent is a doppelgänger too, but that is like giving birth to a second child that looks exactly like the first.. all of which are preposterous. There is no proven reported case of one seeing a doppelgänger. Also finally... If I had a doppelgänger we would look identical as babies but since we live in different environments and society, these factors would make us look different with age. Especially since we will most likely have different life styles and experience. So if I had a doppelgänger by the time I'm 30 I probably wouldn't recognise him... People might be like "are you brothers? You sorta look alike" But that's it. VictorCreator (talk) 13:51, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

Emilee Sagée

I noticed that the article is missing one of the most famous accounts of an alledged doppelganger, namely that of Emilee Sagée. The Sagée account also differs from the accounts mentioned in the article in that while the accounts listed in the article was only experienced by one person, Sagée's doppelganger was observed by multiple witnesses ( 42, more specifically ). The account appears in Robert Dale Owen's 1860 book Footballs on the boundary of another world; https://archive.org/stream/foot00fallsonboundowenrich#page/348/mode/2up/search/sagee.

Just thought I would mention it.^^ - Okama-San (talk) 15:20, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

Umlaut

Most English sources by far prefer the spelling "doppelganger" instead of "doppelgänger". Why are we adhering to German spelling? Bataaf van Oranje (talk) 13:07, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

@Prinsgezinde: I would have thought the spelling without an umlaut was more common, but I recently researched this and the Merriam Webster and American Heritage dictionaries list "doppelgänger" first, although the OED does prefer "doppelganger." What's your source for the idea that the unaccented version is "more common"? jhawkinson (talk) 02:33, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

Mythology

Hello! I'm a new user, so sorry if I say something weird. I always heard stories growing up that meeting your Doppelgänger meant that you would die soon, because there could not be two of the same person in the world. If I find a reputable source on the subject, could I cite and add it into the mythology headline?ClerisySmir (talk) 01:50, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

The Prince and the Pauper

Shouldn't The Prince and the Pauper by Mark Twain be mentioned in the "Examples in Literature" section? It's probably one of the most well-known examples of the trope in works of fiction, and it seems weird that not a single mention of the story appears anywhere in the article... Alex the weeb (talk) 19:17, 14 September 2020 (UTC)