Talk:Donna Summer/Archive 1

Archive 1

Deleted content

I deleted the sentence that calls Love to Love you baby an English version of Je t'aime... i know this was not meant literally but i think anyone reading it who didn't know Summer's music might read it as such. Graham 12:07, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I deleted the comment: "In 1991, during the height of the Gulf War, Summer's song "State Of Independence" was banned from US radio play alongside many other songs that were deemed to have an inflammatory effect on the population". No reference was given for this statement. It is a common understanding that there is freedom of speech in the US, so this ban is highly unbelieveable. More likely, much of the media refused to play the song during this period. - References needed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.173.54.7 (talk) 15:51, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

I cleaned up some grammar and sentence structure in two sections, and dropped a lot of hyperbole. Mhathaway (talk) 01:16, 8 June 2008 (UTC) I also cleaned up some grammar and a few mispelled words/capitalization etc —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.197.37.176 (talk) 00:03, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Controversial comments

Mentioned singer's controversial comments (para 11). This greatly affected her career after 1982.

LaDonna Andre Gaines

Donna Summer's original middle name is generally listed as Andre, not Andrea. Though Andrea "sounds" better (it also appears that way in the German article), it's incorrect.

Neither is correct. Donna states clearly on page 5 of her autobiography, "I was born LaDonna Adrian Gaines on New Year's Eve...". I'll promptly correct it. I'll also correct the spelling of her first husband's name from Helmut to Helmuth, which is how Donna spells it in her book. Crisso 13:18, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Style note

Contributors: Please render names of albums in italics; names of singles appear in Roman type with quotation marks: ex., "She Works Hard for the Money". This is general Wikipedia music style. Thanks. --MJ

Chart positions and sales figures

These need to be substantiated. There are too many changes being made to the figures - who knows what is correct. Also what is the meaning of two albums being "#1 in Every Country in the World"? huh? Every country - in the whole world? I doubt it. Contributors please cite your sources. Give us something that can be verified. Thanks Rossrs 08:26, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

The US chart positions have been corrected, and they can be checked out on the Donna Summer page at www.allmusic.com. The sales figures have been deleted because they don´t correspond to her RIAA gold and platinum certifications (www.RIAA.com). For gold, silver and platinum certifications from the UK, go to www.BPI.co.uk.

It looks as though some of the UK chart positions are also incorrect. According to here, Mistaken Identity and Live and More: Encore! made 50 and 20 respectively in the UK album charts. Yet neither are listed in the Guinness Book of British Hit Singles and Albums, which would suggest that they didn't chart in the UK (if they had made those positions then they WOULD be listed). Crisso 14:24, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Summer defines a genre, has had massive success, and continues to enjoy significant career longevity. However, there seem to be repeated, if minor, conflations of sales numbers and certifications; this happens often at Wiki and is sometimes actually vandalism and not overzealous fans. I removed a claim on the Another Place And Time album page that it was a U.S. Platinum hit. It only peaked at 53 and only had one hit single; RIAA doesn't even list it as Gold. Gold is what is claimed in the DS article. I haven't removed the Gold claim here yet because I want to be sure there is no new information. Sometimes sites (even Billboard and RIAA et al) are incomplete, or lag in their updating. If data reported elsewhere states that sales have accumulated over the years (as would be presumed but should not be encyclopedically stated without citation) or that a certification was granted in the interim based on such accumulated sales, the source of this data should be cited. Otherwise, please remove the claim that Cats Without Claws sold 500,000 (which would qualify it for Gold) and that Another Place And Time is U.S. Gold. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Abrazame (talk • contribs) 16:04, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes you are correct, that album peaked at #53 and is NOT certified platinum or gold —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.197.37.176 (talk) 00:06, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, the article also says she still hold the record for three consecutive number-one albums. Britney Spears had four before Blackout, so... me no get. Someone should find a reference for that claim or something.--Plavalagunanbanshee (talk) 14:32, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

The article actually read that Summer still holds the record for "three consecutive (double) albums" hitting number one. I've just removed the parentheses around "double" because in addition to the implication that it was a minor detail, it implied that no other artist has had three consecutive number-one albums. On the one hand, the Summer statistic is more impressive in that double albums cost more than single disk albums and are therefore something of a risk to release, as many labels fear the added price will result in fewer copies sold. On the other hand, one was a greatest hits album and one was a live album (therefore essentially a hits album as well), and the running time of her double albums seem to be between 69 and 75 minutes, or within the potential running time of a very generously tracked single album in the CD format now. However, even Spears' bonus-track version albums (which were not released in the U.S. and so not part of the statistic in question) fall far short of that running time. One can argue that Spears has sold many more albums, but you'd have to note that Summer sold many more singles. One could also argue that the population of the U.S. is about 100 million more today than it was in Summer's heyday. One thing I've noticed on these pages that similarly implies things that are misleading is that several countries which did not have pop charts in the '70s and '80s have established them since, and other countries which did have pop charts do not post their archives that far back; as a result, Wiki articles for recent songs include a plethora of chart peaks that are not available or are not citable for older releases, even when those earlier releases were successful in those markets. For these and too many other reasons to mention, comparisons between different musical eras—or even within a musical era but after release, charting and certification rules and practices have changed—are completely incongruous and misleading, and become more so in Wiki articles that favor current and recent pop culture over that of earlier eras. Glancing at such articles, it's easy to conflate the significance of a recent song to equal to or above the level of an earlier hit, when in fact the earlier song had a greater impact either in market share or in actual units sold. Still, both as a measure of technical accuracy and as measured against other contemporary releases of their respective times, the record is what it is: Summer reached #1 with three consecutive double albums (of about 16 tracks each), and Spears reached #1 with four consecutive single albums (of about 11 tracks each). And every time I write about chart placement, I feel compelled to mention that I believe it's only one level on which music should be judged or rated—if indeed music should be judged or rated at all. Abrazame (talk) 09:47, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

The editor who added the bit about the Beatles was not incorrect. Those who doubt claims made by editors would do well to make a cursory search before reverting those claims. Billboard.com (and Wikipedia) shows that the three consecutive Anthology double albums all went to #1 on the Billboard 200 Albums chart. When I added the Beatles factoid to give the impressive context that Summer's achievement was matched only by this classic and timeless band, another editor reverted (with poor English), with the comment that my addition should be referenced. Yet the claim of Summer's achievement is not referenced. I should reference the claim for the Beatles' achievement in the Summer article, but you see no reason to reference the claim for Summer's achievement in her own article? Where's the logic in that? It's not necessary to mention the Beatles, but it is necessary that we don't make claims about Summer's achievement that are incorrect. She may have been the first but she was not the only artist to have three consecutive double albums reach number one. Abrazame (talk) 23:24, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm not saying it not true. I'm saying it needs to be referenced.74.73.176.161 (talk) 03:37, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Also most articles make a distinction pre Sound Scan and post Sound Scan March 1,1991. Thanks74.73.176.161 (talk) 13:12, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Re: Three consecutive double albums. How many artists have ever even released three consecutive double albums? That would seem like a very rare occurrence for any artist at all; i.e., could Donna Summer be the "first" just because she may be the "only"? Can anyone name any other artist with three consecutive double albums, in other words? Mamarazzi (talk) 18:40, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

"The Hostage"

This is a really minor issue, but this is the third or even fourth time I removed that weird German chart position of the single "The Hostage". The single *never* charted in Germany at all, especially not that high!

Don't believe me? Try searching for a song called "The Hostage" here:
http://www.charts-surfer.de/musikcharts1024e.htm

So, for christ's sake!, stop adding this false information! Velour 15:16, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Red links for charts

Is there also confusion about which charts are meant as none of the links link to charts that surely have their Wikipedia articles? __meco 23:29, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Of course, the solution isn't simply linking to meaningless articles not related to the charts represented. __meco 09:40, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Voice

I am bewildered by the fact that very little attention is given to the analysis of Donna Summer's voice. No mention is made of her estimated extended range, vocal fach (also stating whether her tessitura exceeds or is shorter than what is, in theory, the proper vocal range for someone with her voice type), and so on. Unfortunately, my musical knowledge is far too limited to be able to provide anything of significance, and thus I shall limit myself to point this out. Thank you.

This section is just so weak. Not that the woman doesn't have a voice, but what's written is completely unsupported, without noting any examples of her range of style. These section just SAYS things without any support or verification. Mhathaway (talk) 01:14, 8 June 2008 (UTC) I am currently trying to link the article to this page regarding her voice but has been unsuccessful, gonna figure this out quickly —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.197.37.176 (talk) 00:08, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Longest note

The record for longest note held in a U.S. Top 40 pop song was broken in 1989 by Freddy Curci of the rock group Sheriff, with the re-release of the 1983 ballad "When I'm With You". His note is nearly ten seconds longer, and - though it is melisma - averages about an octave higher, than Summer's. On first release, the song was a very modest hit, but it went to #1 when it was rediscovered six years later. Summer currently holds the record for longest note held by a female artist in a Top 40 song in the UK (and may hold that record in the U.S. too? Can another Donna fan track that down?), but there she is outdone by Morten Harket of a-ha, whose 2000 hit "Summer Moved On" features a note over 20 seconds, and Bill Withers, for the 1978 hit "Lovely Day" (18 seconds). (Those songs didn't hit in the U.S. and the Sheriff song apparently didn't hit in the UK.) That doesn't take away from diva Donna, who has clearly been holding that note longer in the sense of career span and impact. Summer's steely note is thrilling, and I changed the wording so the impressive record could still be mentioned. Abrazame 10:36, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't think we should get in the habit of really mentioning long notes on recordings. Mentioning a long note in a live performance, yes that's fine; but not a recording (and nothing lip-synched in a "live" performance either). The reason I say to be wary of long notes on recordings is because with studio trickery (which has been around since the 1950s) an artist can really hold a note for, say, 5 seconds and it can get extended by the producer and/or artist to 6 seconds, or 8 seconds, or 10 seconds, and you would never know the difference by listening to it on the record, CD, or radio. Likewise, an artist could really hold a note for 10 seconds, but with studio magic they can extend that up to, say, 15 seconds or beyond if they wanted to. -Now lets say Artist A holds a note in the recording process for 10 seconds, and the producers extend it to 12 seconds; not much longer, just another couple of seconds. Now lets say Artist B, who isn't self-conscience about his singing, really holds a note for 11 seconds during the recording process without any studio help. This would have the impression that Artist A held a note longer than Artist B did on his recording. But the reality is Artist B is really capable of holding longer notes. The one place the truth can come out is in "live" (non lip-synched) performances. If one looks and listens closely they would see that Artist A didn't hold the note quite as long as on his record version, but Artist B held his note just as long or longer than his recorded version, because it was a true vocal on his recording. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.251.112.134 (talk) 00:26, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Citations & references

See Wikipedia:Footnotes for an explanation of how to generate footnotes using the <ref(erences/)> tags Nhl4hamilton (talk) 09:28, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Gay fan influence on Summer's career

(In fact, it is worth noting that during this period the gay community realized its own heritage as purveyors of disco music as opposed to the greater straight rock fan base, and therein may lay some of the reason for disco's demise.)

The above passage seems really strangely worded to me, and hard to follow. Does it mean straights liked rock and gays liked disco? And because they are "lesser" (ie not "greater") in numbers disco died?

Disco didn't die, it was killed, by a rock (and some would say sexist, racist and ethnocentrist) backlash flogged on by evangelical furor. I'm not sure how to improve the passage above until I know what it means.--Erikacornia (talk) 05:50, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Um, no. Disco died because it went out of fashion, like so many other musical styles (think Doo Wop). Witness the changes that took place in Chic's sound from their late 70s albums like Risqué to their more funk/R&B/rock oriented early 80s efforts like Believer. Music evolved. Algabal (talk) 11:08, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Also, what killed Disco was two fold: the poor quality of Disco as was evident by Ehtel Mermen's Disco Album as a prime example. In the very late 70s, everyone got into the Disco mood and a good deal of what was released was pure and complete garbage; it was reduced to nothing more than repeatedly thumps.

Also, the emergence of AIDS killed the uniqueness of Disco...where you could out to dance and get lucky. Disco in the beginning was where you could go--be gay--mix with straights, and in general, be accepted. AIDS frightened gay and str8 alike, and the Disco was seen --as perhaps-- a haven for its spread? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.244.188.131 (talk) 19:21, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

The "poor quality of disco"?? That's up for debate, I would think. If you can honestly say Donna Summer's music is "pure and complete garbage" you obviously have no appreciation for music. As a matter of fact, disco as a genre mixes R&B beats with classical instruments and powerful vocals. That makes it richer than a genre that mixes haphazard electric guitars with hackneyed drum beats and vocals your might expect from your grandpa when he has a sore throat.

Furthermore, rock also has "repeated thumps"; they seem original only because they are backed by vocals lacking technical talent and repetitive passages that sound brand new if you play them on an electric guitar.

I agree with Erikacornia on the demise of Disco. And as for that sentence, yeah, it's totally weird.--Plavalagunanbanshee (talk) 14:26, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Disco did not die it was renamed Dance music HELLO!!!!66.108.106.248 (talk) 03:37, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Personal life

Under personal life I put in specifics regarding the legal action Summer took and the outcome of those efforts as reported on the profile done on her by A&E's Biography program and that Donna participated. The earlier comment said she took legal action but did not specify against what newspaper, and said she won, which is false. Mhathaway (talk) 01:17, 6 June 2008 (UTC)Mhathaway

I deleted the unsourced statements regarding the anti-gay remarks that were making the article look like a forum on the truth of the allegations. Donna brought a suit against New York magazine for its report of the allegations that was supposed to end the speculation, and I imagine also put the rumours to rest, but Donna dropped the suit before it went to court. Mhathaway (talk) 23:48, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Actually she settled out of court and received an undisclosed amount. Then proceeded to make donations to GMHCs. She did a series of concerts around the country with all proceeds being donated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.225.239.152 (talk) 06:58, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

What are your sources for this? If this can be sourced, it should be included and might put the controversy to rest. Unfortunately, none of the sourced info I have notes any payment being made to her.Mhathaway (talk) 10:48, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Who Started Over Again first?

This article http://www.bostonherald.com/entertainment/music/general/view.bg?articleid=1096551&format=&page=2&listingType=musi says Summer did not record "Starting Over Again" prior to Parton's version. This means the Parton version would not be considered a cover, but the first recording, and Summer & Sudano's songwriting credit on that country hit should be mentioned within the article and not in the covers section. Abrazame (talk) 04:57, 21 June 2008 (UTC) This info is correct, Summer never recorded this song. Her and Bruce wrote the song, so your correct, it is not a cover. Good eye

Anti-gay comments

See WP:NPOV, WP:V, and Wikipedia:Criticism for policies and discussions regarding negative evaluations.

I know her die-hard fans hate to see it brought up, but deleting it doesn't mean it's not part of her history. Fortunately, this is not a fan forum but an online encyclopedia, and I have saved the file for this section. If corrections need to be made, but all means make them, but deleting section will not the history, and I am prepared to expand on the article as necessary should additional citation be needed.Mhathaway (talk) 23:06, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Please add citations as comments will be removed otherwise.72.225.239.152 (talk) 05:45, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

I did some searching, and I could not find any reference to anti-gay comments made by Donna Summer, other than the links to Wikipedia. While I have come to agree that the section be removed, editors should be aware that sufficient time should be allowed for research before removing a section. Leave it as it is, with the citation tags, until a few other editors have weighed in on the situation. --Dbo789 (talk) 07:03, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

After some more searching, I've found a reference to the comments, they were made in the early 80's about AIDS being a punishment for gays. There isn't much information online about them, but one can assume that is because of the time passed since they were made. Link: http://community.mixaloo.com/music/artists/donna-summer/writeup/. Fourth paragraph under 'Personal Life'. --Dbo789 (talk) 07:07, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

I've rewritten the section, including statements that the comments were rumored, and included the reference to the website on which I found them. Hopefully this satisfies everyone. --Dbo789 (talk) 07:13, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

The "mixaloo" website referenced references the Wikipedia article! It says at the bottom of the 'write-up': "This article is licensed under the GNU Free Documentation License. It uses material from the Wikipedia article "Donna Summer"." Mhathaway (talk) 15:37, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure how Dbo789 could miss it; when I search for "Donna Summer" and "anti-gay", I get quite a few hits beyond the thousands of fans denying or writing off the comments. Not only is this a rumor, it's one that was accepted as a fact, which was the whole point with the New York Magazine lawsuit. Summer didn't sue because they reported on the rumor, she would have had no legal grounds for that. She sued because they reported the rumor as if it were a fact, and then went as far as to write "it's incomprehensible that she won't retract those statements." Furthermore, they did so in a review of a new album which would presumably have a negative effect on the potential consumer reading the review. She apparently had denied the statements as early as 1984, and this was the grounds for the lawsuit. Ultimately the criteria for including the rumor in the bio isn't whether it was true or untrue that she said those things, but whether it was notable and citable that there was a rumor, and the effect it caused not only to Summer personally, but to her career, her fans, and gays in general, but the effect the rumor had on the public discussion of AIDS and homosexuality, on the public discussion of alleged anti-gay remarks by celebrities, on setting the record straight (as it were) after falsehoods emerge, and on spin-control after acutal comments. [1] [2]. Not only was there a citable rumor, there was a citable backlash against her, including protests and bans of her material in clubs. Perhaps you're looking for articles which state unequivocally that it happened, which is missing the point. Abrazame (talk) 07:37, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

I see Dbo789 edited while I was writing my earlier bit. That was a quick turnaround between your assertion references could not be found and finding and citing one; I commend your ultimate editorial perseverence. I'll leave my comment for the record, in the interest of getting more input on this issue to work out a balanced and cited mention that looks at the historical life and effects of the rumor in a larger context, so as not to have it chopped to bits by editors who aren't seeing the bigger picture. Abrazame (talk) 13:55, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Research was done by Rex Woeckner that was printed in cover article for the gay weekly magazine Frontiers. Rex found four people, who he did name, and they concerts where the remarks were heard. Now there's an article worth suing over if it weren't true. I'm thinking the best thing would be to scan the magazine cover and the article and link it as a reference. I will revert the article back as it was sourced.Mhathaway (talk) 10:52, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

After thinking this over, I think before I make any edits I should scan the article and put it up on the web where it can be viewed and used a source.Mhathaway (talk) 10:58, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

I noted that the suit was against New York magazine, and that, according the A&E Biography show that Donna participated, neither side admitted guilt when the suit was settled out of court.Mhathaway (talk) 11:04, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Mhathaway, please include edit summaries for your additions and deletions. When edits—and particularly deletions—are not self-evident in their purpose and necessity, you're supposed to indicate your reason(s) for other editors to evaluate. Such things are helpful to prevent edit wars, and to keep editors from wasting their time reverting or searching to remove multiple unreasonable edits. It may also help you from being labeled a vandal, as you have been by editors other than myself. Why, for example, did you remove the mention of several covers of Donna Summer songs?

As to your legal logic, Summer could not sue Frontiers unless she could prove at least one of those people never said what the writer claimed they did, or that he induced them to lie. A magazine can print a rumor; an encyclopedia has a higher threshold for notability. I've been working on an elaboration of that which I will post here.

You can cite a source that does not appear on the web WP:CITE#FULL; the editor who yesterday claimed you had not was incorrect. In fact, your submission was more completely cited than what remained on the topic after your addition was removed. Uploading that article to the web could be helpful, however, to those who would doubt your claim, as well as to those looking to craft a better mention than any of the last few, ensuring neutrality and context. Having said all of that, naming concertgoers, while it may be the only way to confirm something said at an unrecorded concert, does not in my mind prove this wasn't a hoax. I would prefer that the author had been there. They could have lied as a conspiracy amongst the four of them to start a rumor, in which case Frontiers and the writer they lied to would not be legally at fault, and the statute of limitations would likely be up for the four, though it would be a reprehensible thing to do, as it hurt Summer as well as countless thousands of others. Yet it's a better source than the vague recollection of a quote of something someone was told, or the paraphrasing of such, which is what has seemed to accompany most mentions I've seen here or elsewhere on the web. Abrazame (talk) 12:20, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

I believe the suit needs to be included in the main text not under a heading as it is now presented. Rumor and speculation are not cornerstones of an article on Wiki.72.225.239.152 (talk) 13:30, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

To the general concept of rumor: Rumors and other innuendo and attacks are against Wiki policy; the editorial essence of a rumor is that it is uncitable, and to repeat it is to give credence to something unproven and potentially false, and often damaging, thus participating in the legitimization of said rumor and damage—even if an opposing position is included as a pretense at balance. There is no balance struck when presenting a falsehood alongside a denial of that falsehood, and people should not be forced to answer to anybody with a grudge willing to proffer a lie. Even if a rumor could be given neutral coverage due to citable information on all sides of the issue, including the rumors, the publication of same, and the subject's subsequent, published claims against them, it would be reasonable to decide to omit them entirely, as insignificant side effects of being a public figure.

This particular rumor, however, was so widely held as fact, for so many years, by music fans and the media alike, so enduringly addressed in print and by Summer herself (to limited avail), up to, including and beyond her 1991 lawsuit, and so permeated the culture as to be synonymous with her name to some (note that it comes up in interviews two decades-plus on, and not just interviews of Summer but of other artists as well), that it has had a citable broad, historical effect. It is this citable broad, historical effect which is the appropriate context for the mention. Because of that broad historical effect—and not simply the rumor, the chatroom discussions, or the lawsuit—this is a notable chapter not only of her bio but of the popular culture. The confluence of events in Summer's life and career at the time which already appear in the bio and/or song articles (including her break with disco music, her unwillingness to perform "Love to Love You Baby" through that period, and her renewed religious convictions) with those happening in the country as a whole (including the AIDS epidemic hitting the Gay community, the ascendancy of the anti-gay sociopolitical agenda of the Moral Majority and others, and even of the life, death, and rebirth(s) of Disco music in the U.S.) all serve to illuminate how and why the rumor was able to take hold among the dance community and the gay community, not to mention the press, and underscore why it was so unfortunate for all involved. This page is, after all, categorized as a B-class LGBT article and as a B-class Christianity article. Those elements are already inextricably identified with Summer and a part of her bio. This rumor is about the perceived conflict between homosexuality and Christianity. Addressing it as such, with neutrality, honor, and citations, would help elevate the article. Whether it would be addressed in total in its own section, as the previous, anonymous editor objects to, or gets incorporated into the article as chronologically and contextually relevant, is a reasonable debate.

For fans of Donna Summer whose impulse is to bury the subject, consider a moment: were there to have been a Wikipedia in 1990 with a section on this topic, compiled with citable references to tell the story in a neutral and researchable way, showing what Summer dealt with and how she dealt with it, while noting what those who believed the rumor dealt with and how, the story might have had the full and balanced telling it arguably still needs to allow all parties closure. Such an article here may have prevented the offending review in New York Magazine, saving that damage to Summer, her album, the magazine, and its readers. Isn't that part of the point of accurate, cited, accessible information? (Run-on sentence notwithstanding!)

If you assume Summer did not say what is attributed to her, then addressing this in its historic context would help to explain how and why such a falsehood could have gained hold the way it did, and could help exonerate her. If you assume Summer did say something more or less like what is attributed to her, then making these historical connections validates why such a belief was so painful and threatening. If you know little about the situation or the times in which it happened, you'd get what the big deal was. And if you make no assumption, or are neutral on the veracity of the rumor, as am I, then the topic is addressed in its historic context, fitting of encyclopedic coverage in a biography, and not a tabloid snippet. Abrazame (talk) 14:17, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

I believe in a historical context it should be included with references. You made valid points of how rumors take hold. What was going on within the gay community at the time. What was happening with Summers relationship with the Gay community and the Christian right. The AIDS crisis made for a volatile mix of emotions, conspiracy theories and paranoia. Some very legitimate arguments could be made on all counts. At this time the same rumors and innuendos were leveled against Louise Hay and Marianne Williamson. As included now it falls short even the head line"Anti Gay rumors" is sensational in nature. I am a product of the time living in NYC and gay and now approaching fifty. Thanks72.225.239.152 (talk) 18:11, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

PS Summers has done numberless concert fundraisers for GMHCs around the country since she settled out of court with NY Mag. One being at Carnegie Hall in NY Thanks again72.225.239.152 (talk) 18:48, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

First of all, the title was not 'Anti Gay rumors' as you state, rather it was 'Rumored Anti-Gay Comments'. However, incorrect statements aside, even if the title had been what you suggested, it is not sensational in the least. The section dealt with a time in Summer's history where rumors were circulated about her making anti-gay comments. The title was not a stretch by any means, and I am positive most people would agree. Secondly, the area had its own section, even with the lack of viable information, because it was a major controversy in Summer's life despite what her supporters may wish others to think. If it was big enough an event to still cause people to talk about it today (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvmcgTmD2ng), it is big enough to deserve more than a side note. You seem to be the only one to disagree with these statements, yet I see you have yet again edited the article to suit your own views, regardless of other editor opinion. I'm leaving it as is for now, primarily because of the three revert rule, but note that your actions do go against wikipedia consensus policy and are negatively viewed upon. --Dbo789 (talk) 00:40, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Actually I am not in disagreement. But first: the section was newly added. Second: the article which was stated has not been referenced. If we go back over the history of the "Event" which has been varied. The accounts of what was said, Aids is Gods punishment"," God didn't create Adam and Steve", "I love you but not the way you are." ect...... the concert was in NY the concert was in LA the concert was in Atlanta. Michael Musto reported in the Village Voice what was said but later said he was not at the concert. Putting it in context is fine. I find it interesting you correct my misquote yet we are so willing to include unsupported or un referenced quotes in the article.72.225.239.152 (talk) 02:13, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

And thus we've come full circle. The original point of this debacle was to provide citations and reference for the comments made. We've done that, and included them. Regardless, I'm leaving this topic alone. If another editor wishes to weigh in, please do so. Until that time, it is my view that the article, in regards to the section/paragraph/article/comments of which this debate has been based, remain as-is. That said, I would suggest that you sign up for a user account if you plan to continue to provide further edits to Wikipedia. Its not required of course, but it does come with it's benefits, and despite our disagreement, I would be pleased to see another editor around! --Dbo789 (talk) 03:42, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

I've done a thorough report using a variety of source on this subject at gay icon (see: Gay_icon#1970s.E2.80.931980s). The sources are verifiable and its as neutral as I could make it. It also summerizes the entire controversy. We could just copy and paste, or if someone wants to try and tweek it, all the sources are available online or via google books. The Bookkeeper (of the Occult) 23:21, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

The rumor should be included in the article because it was one of the most prominent aspects of Summer's career (albeit a negative one). I've listed it under "controversy" rather than making a section-heading saying "anti-gay comments", as this is neutral and much more appropriate. As long as it is made clear that Summer has denied the comments, and subsequent information about her trying to sue New York Magazine is given an appropriate source, then there is no problem with this being in the article. I know Summer's fans hate seeing it, but (as has already been said) this is not a Donna Summer fansite and the article should include everything that was notable about her - good or bad.79.66.80.178 (talk) 18:07, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Not sure if this article has been read before, but it seems to be an accurate account of events regarding this issue. This fiasco happened at the show I attended in Merriville, IN - Sept 1983, backstage after the show. There was a lot of shouting back and forth, It was actually an concert goer that actually said the hurtful information during the disagreements right after she started talking about "God gave his own son...", but then again, by the time the story gets to the end of the table, (its another story). By nightfall, the whole story had reached LA, NY and so on. Many tend to have believed this because she (Donna)didnt come out right away and deny it. Which wasnt done til much later. When asked: Summer felt that it was just ANOTHER rumor and it will go away like the others. Then preceeded to include the rumor about "her being a man". While this is a negative event, it was a major part of her history. Until there is SOLID PROOF that she (Donna) did infact say anything to the contrary, And I seriously doubt there ever will be, Its water under the bridge. --70.197.37.176

Personal heading

Should a section be started about her personal Life? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.108.147.219 (talk) 17:42, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Best Female Rock Vocal Performance

I could've sworn I edited this part of the article once before. The article featured this passage:

The Single "Hot Stuff" won Summer a second Grammy, for Best Female Rock Vocal Performance for which Summer would become the first black female to accompolish this. (Interestingly, the Grammys had a Best Disco Recording Award only once, in 1980, won by Gloria Gaynor for her I Will Survive single).

In fact, that year—1979—was the first year the Best Female Rock Vocal Performance category was recognized. The sentence reads as though there had been a long history of white women winning the award, and finally a black woman had a rare chance. This is not only untrue, it is vastly misrepresented. For the first nine times the award was given, the award was won by a black woman five times. In fact, a black woman—Tina Turner—is tied with Pat Benatar and Sheryl Crow for the most awards won in the category (four each). Before 1979 there was no rock vocalist award; since 2004 the male and female rock vocalist awards have been combined into a single category (and no woman has won since).

This win by Summer was controversial—but not because she was black, as has been claimed in this article in the past. While in the context of disco music Summer brought a rawer vocal and a harder rock edge to some of her recordings than her contemporaries, rock fans were upset that Grammy voters didn't "get" what rock music was, much as heavy metal fans were upset when the first Grammy Award for Best Hard Rock/Metal Performance Vocal or Instrumental went to Jethro Tull, a band of shifting genres but safe to say generally considered progressive rock or art rock with folk rock and blues rock influences. (Imagine if the first Rap Grammy had gone to Falco for "Rock Me Amadeus".)

It is similarly safe to say that Donna Summer, at the height of the disco craze in 1979, was considered a disco artist, indeed a mainstream pop artist, but not a rock artist. As the Grammy committee had done to mitigate their mistake in 1980 by creating the (short-lived) disco category, they created a separate metal category in 1990. This controversy might be interesting to get a reference or two for and include in the article, but in the meantime, it is to Summer's credit that she received Grammy votes, yet it would be an exceptional statement to say that her race (much less her sex, as the sentence seemed to suggest as well) was an unusual aspect to her win.

As such, I've changed the section to read:

The single "Hot Stuff" won Summer a second Grammy, winning the first ever award for Best Female Rock Vocal Performance. (Interestingly, the Grammys had a Best Disco Recording Award only once, in 1980, won by Gloria Gaynor for "I Will Survive".)

Abrazame (talk) 09:13, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Strange no mention in the Wiki of two UK cultural milestones involving Donna Summer tracks.

'Love to love you baby' was played on the record player by Bev(played by Alison Steadman)in the BBC TV and stage play 'Abigail's Party' the social commentary by Mike Leigh produced in 1979.

'Hot stuff' was one of the iconic tracks in the film 'The Full Monty' where out of work steel workers queue for the dole, tapping their feet to the background music.

Both these productions further enhance awareness and status of Summer's music as part of the soundtrack to a generation.Tonyparksrun (talk) 14:55, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Well, in this sense, the Grammy voters may have gotten it right. I see nothing wrong with the win. Donna Summer won for Best Female Rock Vocal Performance, not say, a category called, ummm... Best Female Rock Act. If you listen to the song "Hot Stuff" (really listen to it) you will hear it is indeed a rock song. The problem with those who thought she shouldn't have won in that category is that Donna Summer was considered a disco/R&B artist at that time. They couldn't mentally separate her vast catalogue of disco songs and R&B ballads from this rock-infused song. Instead, since she was a disco act, they just lumped all her material into the disco vain in their minds. But this song is indeed a rock song, and she won for a rock song, not for being an overall rock artist. There is a difference; that's why the category states best rock performance, not best rock artist. Now some may disagree about whether she should have won it or not, but she definitely should have been nominated for it because it was a rock song. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.251.112.134 (talk) 02:56, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Gay controversy

Why has the entire gay controversy section been removed fom the article? This was a huge part of Summer's musical history. I know her fans hate to see it in the article, but this is not a fan page, so all things revelant should be included. This needs to be added back to the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.251.112.134 (talk) 06:03, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

I've just restored it. Although Summer has denied saying it (which is made clear in the article), this is indeed a significant event in Summer's career and belongs in the article. 88.104.27.108 (talk) 23:33, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

Section: Early life and career

Looks like it was vandalized here: "Born on New Year's Eve 2010 in the"

And although she really rocks, the phrase "Donna Summer rocks" looks sort of the same —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tattenbach (talk • contribs) 06:58, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Sales

This is long but it must be said. Donna Summer has NOT sold 130 million albums and singles worldwide. Remove this bold-faced lie off this article. I like Donna Summer but I know she hasn't sold that much. Whitney Houston is at 160 million. Do you think Donna Summer is just sitting slightly behind Whitney Houston in sales? Frank Sinatra is at 150 million; Donna Summer is not just under his sales total either. Bruce Springsteen at 120 million, the Jackson 5 at 100 million, Janet Jackson at 100 million, and Shania Twain at 65 million; so Donna Summer has outsold all of them?! I think not. I like Donna Summer and she is a very good artist. She is very experimental in her music and can sing a variety of genres. But I also know Wikipedia is supposed to be a fact site (an internet encyclopedia), and Donna Summer has not sold 130 milllion albums and singles. Her actual number may hover more around 35 million worldwide! Where has someone gotten off just tacking on an additional 100 million units onto her tally?! Donna has released several albums that DID NOT even obtain the lowest level of certification in the US (gold for 500,000 copies sold), and the US is the world's largest music market. Some of her albums DID NOT go gold in many other countries as well, and they require less units sold than the US. Other nations typically have something like 50,000-75,000 sold for gold status, and perhaps 100k-200k for platinum. That's because in those nations, numbers like that will represent high sales so even when she did go gold in some foreign territories, that's not nearly the same amount of units moved as in the United States.

In America, albums need 500k sold for gold status, and one million sold for platinum status. In the US, several of Donna's albums did not go gold, several of them attained gold status, and two albums went over platinum. Here is the current breakdown of Donna Summer's album sales in the US:

Love To Love You Baby = Gold, Love Trilogy = Gold, Four Seasons Of Love = Gold, I Remember Yesterday = Gold, Once Upon A Time = Gold, Live And More = Platinum, Bad Girls = 2x Platinum, On The Radio = 2x Platinum, The Wanderer = Gold, Donna Summer = Gold, She Works Hard For The Money = Gold

That is pretty impressive. That gives her 8 million sold by the certifications. Now figure these albums sold somewhat over the certification amount needed; such as Love To Love You Baby may have sold 600k or 700k for its gold status, or Bad Girls may have sold 2.2 or 2.4 million for its double platinum certification. So lets just say she has sold 10 million copies in the US off the above albums.

Now Donna Summer has albums that attained no certifications in the US at all:

Cats Without Claws, All Systems Go, Another Place And Time, Mistaken Identity, Christmas Spirit, Crayons, Live And More Encore, Walk Away (greatest hits), Endless Summer (greatest hits), The Journey (greatest hits),

Figure the above albums sold between 100k-400k each in the US, as they were not certified gold. Lets average them all at 250k units sold apiece (two or three of them may have sold more than that, but the others most likely sold under this, so that gives an advantage to Donna). That would be 2.5 million total copies sold in the US of her non-certified albums. We can even round that up to 3 million. Again, and advantage for Donna.

So 10 million (certified albums) plus 3 million (non-certified albums) gives her approximately 13 million albums sold in the US to date. The music market of the rest of the world is about equal to the United States alone, so figure she sold about 13 million internationally of all 21 albums listed above. Plus there were a couple of albums that were not released in the US and many other countries, such as:

Greatest Hits of Donna Summer (not released in any nation, except the UK -no certification) Best of Donna Summer (greatest hits -not released in US)

So if we were generous enough to bring her outside-the-US sales up from 13 million to 15 million with the inclusion of the two other albums (that's being very generous by the way), and add that with the US sales of 13 million, (13 million plus 15 million) that will give a total of approximately 28 millions albums sold worldwide. Does one really believes she has sold 102 million additional singles?! That would mean Donna Summer's single-only sales (102 million worldwide if you believe this article) would be more than both the combined album and single sales of artists like Cher, George Michael, Jackson Five, Janet Jackson, Julio Iglesias, Beyonce, and Prince just to name a few. That's not to say Donna Summer's talent isn't better than many acts I have mentioned throughout all of this writing; but this is about the sales and her sales tally, while impressive, is not at 130 million albums and singles. Its closer to 35 million albums and singles worldwide. That's also why Donna summer's name isn't on the Wikipedia Article "List of best-selling music artists", because that article only lists acts at a minimum of 50 million albums, singles, videos, and DVD's sold, and Donna Summer is not even at the 50 million mark yet. Donna Summer's sales are at roughly 35 million, and definitely no more than 40 million. So please remove this 130 million sales tally lie out of this article and understand this is not a fan page to boister your favorite performers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.251.112.134 (talk) 00:50, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

wp:TLDR - An interested editor might decide to find a source that disputes IMDB. IMDB is generally pretty reliable. Anyone who cares enough to say something readable oppose the IMDB data?Shajure (talk) 03:56, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

Nevermind, dropping the article off my watchlist.Shajure (talk) 04:03, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

Donna Summer's certified sales of albums and singles according the RIAA (Recording Industry Association of America) aren't over 20 million. So how could she possible have sold another 110 million in the rest of the world? This is a legitimate question. And if she sold 130 million records, then why isn't she included on Wikipedia's OWN article called "List of best-selling music artists"? Isn't that Wikipedia contradicting itself by stating she has sold that many records on one article, but then not including her in another article that lists the best selling artists? The reason she is not on that list is because that article has been locked, and every act that is included there is verified and people overseeing that article knows she hasn't sold 130 million records. I like Donna Summer as much as the next person, but lets be real, she hasn't sold 130 million records. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.251.112.134 (talk) 04:18, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

While I agree that the 130 million for Donna Summer is overnlown, it needs to be noted that US certification-award-levels for singles before 1989 were Gold=1,000,000, Platinum=2,000,000, meaning she may have sold a lot of singles but they may have just missed reaching the Gold status (1 million units) or the Platinum status (2,000,000), and therefore, the remainder sold units cannot be seen with only certifications. According to Donna Summer's available certified sales (I uploaded the detailed certified sales here), US certified sales=24,500,000 (singles and albums), UK certified sales=3,370,000, Canadian certified sales=1,250,000, French certified sales=1,000,000, Dutch certified sales=100,000, Brazilian certified sales=100,000, the total of which is 30.3 million clearly suggests that Summer's actual sales is way above 50 million but not close to 100 million. Donna Summer is an early beginner; and lot of the certification-databases for numerous markets do not cover releases dating back to 70s, therefore, it's impossible to know what Donna Summer may have sold in each market. But in the US alone, I can confidently say that she's sold some 35-40 million records (albums, singles combined), in UK, she must have sold good 5 million records, in Canada good 2 million, and her French actual sales are 4,414,700. Let's bear in mind that Certified sales normally cover only 50-70% of the actual sales depending the size of artists' catalogue. As for List of best-selling music artists, Summer has enough certified sales covering the 130 million claimed figure (see the required percentages at the top of the discussion page), but then the source for List of best-selling music artists must be highly reliable one.--Harout72 (talk) 05:40, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

Children

Doesn't Donna Summers have three children? Was she married a second time? How come no personal life section like other famous people? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.221.93.180 (talk) 15:36, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

Please don't revert things back just because there is a change to something

It is not accurate to say that the album "Cats Without Claws" was Summer's first album not to attain gold status in the US since her 1974 debut album. That album, "Lady of the Night", was not released in the US, just a few countries in Europe in 1974. Therefore, it did not have the ability to go gold in the US as it was not released here. In referring to "Cats Without Claws", the sentence was changed to state "it was her first album not to attain gold status in the US". But yet is was changed back to an incorrect statement. Correct information should be provided here. I already knew that album had not been released in the US, -- BUT -- even if I had not known that, the earlier paragraph already said that the album was not released in America so it was a correct / valid change. Please lets not revert things back for no apparent reason other than to revert it back. If that's the case, what is Wikipedia for? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.251.112.134 (talk) 05:20, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

This article needs a serious overhaul

I actually hate the version that got reverted back. It's badly organized and not worded well for what seems to be what Wikipedia seeks in good articles. We need to revamp this. My edited version was better (and could be even better if you guys who changed it back to how it was before had added the source) but I hate the way the story is worded. We need to fix this article. BrothaTimothy (talk · contribs) 04:15, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

Who keeps changing this article?

The original version was better. This article that now stands is quite bland, does not go into enough detail, and almost comes off as favoring Donna instead of being impartial. One thing that blatantly stands out is the whole missing section on the controversy about her alleged anti-gay comments. It doesn't matter if someone believes Summer didn't say those things (because there are just as many people who believe she did). But the bottom line is, it is an integral part of her life and career, and it cannot just be skipped or left out because a fan doesn't like it in the article. Another way of looking at this; lets say in the O.J. Simpson article we leave out the fact that he was accused of two murders. Why? Because he said he didn't do it and he was found not guilty. Does that mean that event should not go into his article, and that his article should only be about his football career and the movies he has made? No. It STILL should be in his article because it was an integral part of his life. In fact, the way it was presented in Summer's article was fair because it gave comments and points of view from both sides. But regardless of that, this article is not as strong this way...Please revert it back.

PLEASE revert this article back. Its full of incorrect information. Under the so-called "Struggles With Geffen" section, it says Polygram Records purchased Casablanca Records after Neil Bogart's death. This is not true. Polygram purchased 50% of Casablanca Records years earlier, and after Neil Bogart's free-spending while running Casablanca, Polygram decided to purchase the other half and then it fired Neil Bogart. He then went on to form Boardwalk Records, and one of Bogart's early signings was a then-new solo Joan Jett, who had some level of successs in Japan with her group The Runaways. Neil Bogart then later died of cancer. Please revert this bland, incorrect article back to its original form. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.251.112.134 (talk) 21:24, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

You can add that stuff in the respective paragraphs. The article as it was written was badly organized. But just remember if you want to add the other information, please do and cite your sources otherwise, the article would once again look a mess. This article needs a Wikiproject badly and it would be better if you weren't "unsigned", then we can change it together. Otherwise, we'll have this back and forth with the production of this article. BrothaTimothy (talk · contribs) 20:13, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Where is the whole section on the gay controversy. This was a huge part of Donna Summer and it's nowhere to be found in the article. How can something like this be deleted, and lesser things are put into other people's articles? Doesn't make sense really... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.251.112.134 (talk) 05:00, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

It seems that it was removed by User:BrothaTimothy on 20 Nov 2011, but I have just restored it because it was an important aspect of Summer's career. BrothaTimothy, if you remove sourced content again, you will be reported and your account will be blocked. This is not a Donna Summer fansite and Wikipedia is not in the business of obscuring details about a person just because it is unflattering. 88.104.21.234 (talk) 12:32, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Insert link to Wikipedia article for "The Woman in Me"

Under the paragraph heading for the 1980's is a reference to a "minor hit", The Woman in Me, on her eponymous album of 1982. There is no link attached to the song title, but there should be, since a page exists for this song at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Woman_in_Me_%28Donna_Summer_song%29

50.50.111.205 (talk) 02:20, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

 Done Thanks. Dru of Id (talk) 02:50, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

BLP, BDP

Per WP:BLP protections (which still extend to the recently deceased), I've removed any information on potentially sensitive subjects here that has no source (lawsuits, depression, lovers, etc.) with this series of edits:[3]. Hopefully sources for this info can be found, though, and some form of it restored. The article still has several sections that appear entirely unsourced. Khazar2 (talk) 04:06, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Great article

What a great article. I had forgotten much about this singer and am glad to read it here. Congrat's to all editors. As to the anti-gay remark, while it should be mentioned, please let us not give UNDUE weight to the remark. While it is unfortunate if true, it should not rule this article. If I had a dollar for every anti-italian, anti-french, anti-women anti-american remark heard in my lifetime I would be a wealthy women indeed. Once again, great article! Mugginsx (talk) 10:42, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 18 May 2012

Donna Summer's real name was LaDonna Andrea Gaines, not Adrian!!

Supersadie (talk) 08:54, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Most sources disagree with you, and support this edit. If you have other reliable sources, they need to be brought here. Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:34, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

N Not done. Please provide reliable sources. matt (talk) 12:05, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Place of death

The Associated Press reports that Donna Summer passed in Naples,FL, not Key West. Flltonyb (talk) 12:29, 18 May 2012 (UTC)Tony B

Donna Summer's father was not a butcher

Hello. The article was great, however Andrew Gaines was not a butcher. He worked for one of the large electronics manufacturers in Massachusetts. He was still employed at that company after "Bad Girls" came out. He worked with my father. Don't know what his job title was.

This is the 1st time I have commented on an error so I'm not sure how this can be verified. Thanks

174.141.213.44 (talk) 13:03, 18 May 2012 (UTC)Lei-Lei

Premonition of 9/11

I'd propose an edit of the paragraph dealing with Summers' claimed premonition of the 9/11 attacks. Looking at the source article in the Daily Telegraph, one can see that it was, in fact, a claim. We have only Summers' word for it, and she may well have misremembered the details. How about inserting "Summers claimed that" at the start of the sentence?

Userboy87 (talk) 16:38, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

I agree. Mugginsx (talk) 17:00, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Doubt she would misremember something like that but I changed the language anyways. Deleted the part where it was reported she claimed her lung cancer came from toxic dust. According to the source the original sources are "friends" telling TMZ she claimed this. Not reliable enough for BLP. Need a reliable source specifically naming somebody reliably close to her claiming she believed this. Edkollin (talk) 17:05, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Mispelling: 'diagnosed' instead of 'dianosed'

Minor correction(Lapis123 (talk) 18:04, 18 May 2012 (UTC))

Dive right in, and welcome to Wikipedia! Khazar2 (talk) 18:14, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

LaDonna Ruby Rozaldi?

Are you guys serious right now? Man, this page needs an overhaul for real. BrothaTimothy (talk · contribs) 01:35, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 19 May 2012

Donna Summer lived and passed away in Naples Florida. She and her husband have a home their. 69.247.54.224 (talk) 13:21, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

The 'Death' section already states ' The New York Times reported that she died at her home in Naples, Florida.[19]'. Dru of Id (talk) 13:40, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Developments

As is pointed out five short threads above this, Donna Summer reportedly died in Naples. But in the lead of this article, it says she died in Key West. Later in the article, it says she died in Englewood. Key West, Naples, and Englewood are not even close to each other geographically. The recent death template was added here; and barely one full day later it was determined that the tag was no longer needed. The circumstances are still quite "hazy", and I am alarmed by the trend to want to remove {{recent death}} tags before the issue is actually resolved. So I have restored the tag: and I encourage you all to read the news and appreciate that these things take time. More than one day. I didn't even know that she was a non-smoker that died of lung cancer. Did any of you? Now we do. Doc talk 10:22, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

I watched an interview with her on one of the entertainment shows last evening where she stated that she lived less than a mile from ground zero at and after 9-11 and inhaled the smoke and other fowl smells coming from the area. She has apparently blamed her lung cancer on that, however, I did not hear that part on the interview, only as to where she lived on and after 9-11. Mugginsx (talk) 10:49, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

It's interesting that you say that, because I noticed the title of this ref when scanning through the article initially. Doc talk 10:55, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

As far as claiming she is blaming 9/11 this is the quote in The Telegraph "She had largely kept her battle with lung cancer out of the public eye. But the website TMZ reported that the singer had told friends she believed her illness was the result of inhaling toxic dust from the collapsed Twin Towers". The sources are unnamed "friends" telling TMZ. This not reliable especially for a biographical article. Edkollin (talk) 19:49, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Yes, and your reference would indeed be a good one. They also showed a clip on another entertainment show where she is talking about the dangers of smoking and smoke to one's voice, but I do not have a verifiable source for that. Mugginsx (talk) 13:07, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

As a child of the '70's I remember people being able to smoke on airplanes, with ashtrays in the armrests. How many smoke-filled clubs did she perform in, night after night? Exposure to second-hand smoke could be a possible cause as well. The exposure to the 9/11 stuff was even more shocking, and this needs more work (as does the entire article). More will be written by good sources that we can use. Aside from that, I don't think that the recent death tag should removed until we can at least establish where exactly she died. Keeping the semi-protection for a spell is also a good idea. Doc talk 13:27, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

I thought of that as well but I do not think she worked many night clubs. As for concerts, even in the sixties, indoor concerts prohibited smoking because of fire regulations (I went to many and , yes, a few were smoking - but not the usual cigarettes - if you know what I mean. So I do not think she was exposed to too much smoke as say, a Las Vegas nite club performer of old was. Just my opinion for what it is worth. Also small clubs such as Miami Beach hotel club rooms usually prohibited smoking also because of fire regulations, even back then. Mugginsx (talk) 15:57, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Here's a source that says she did smoke. And here's a pic that's a bit incriminating. Those interested may want to look at the discussion these links came from - Plastic cities on Wikipedia:Reference desk/Science. HiLo48 (talk) 05:00, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Very interesting indeed. Good finds! Doc talk 05:29, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

I saw that pose as part of a video where she was posturing while telling another she did NOT smoke. Sort of a joke as I recall it. You are just seeing a still of her posturing with the cigarettes while talking to another person who is not in the pic. I do not believe the cigarette is lit. It is not definite evidence. I really do not know if she smoked or not but in the video she seems to be saying she does not. Mugginsx (talk) 11:15, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

The pic is nothing without a reference, aside from interesting. But the article source does indeed say that "she was a smoker". We have lots of other sources saying she was not a smoker. Isn't it fun, attempting to figure this stuff out? Doc talk 11:20, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

I doubt she was a smoker. It goes against her devout religious beliefs. She seemed really strong in her beliefs and I doubt besides that prescription drug mess in the mid-1970s that she ever was addicted to anything if not to her life, her music, her love of painting and being a wife, mother and grandmother. BrothaTimothy (talk · contribs) 01:05, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Wow, that's a bit presumptive and saccharin. I know several "devout" Christians who are heavy smokers. I wouldn't dare to draw that conclusion. HiLo48 (talk) 03:18, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

I'm not saying that was true of all Christians. Just her maybe. I read about those "devout" that are heavy smokers. Plus it also may be because she cared too much about her voice that she didn't dare smoke so that is probably a bigger factor than religion. The wording I did earlier was wrong so I apologize for assuming that. BrothaTimothy (talk · contribs) 06:57, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Conflicting information on cause of death

Some sources say it was "lung cancer", others say it was "breast cancer". Perhaps this should just be called "cancer" until the media sort it out and provide a definitive report. — Quicksilver^{T @} 17:03, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

It looks like this section was vandalized or something like it. Someone wrote she died of "ass cancer" and I can't locate it in the Wiki Editor. Sshuffield70 (talk) 17:13, 17 May 2012 (UTC)sshuffield70

Donna Summer passed away at her beach home on Manasota Key, (Englewood) Florida. Here is the link to the local newspaper article ... http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20120517/WIRE/120519611/2416/NEWS?Title=Donna-Summer-queen-of-disco-dies-in-Englewood — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.203.31.243 (talk) 22:34, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

The Sarasota Herald-Tribune says in its published headline that she actually passed away "In Englewood". With that said, she lived and most likely passed away at her family beach house on the island of Manasota Key (Englewood post address), Florida (located in Sarasota County). It is not likely that she passed away in Key West (as stated earlier on Wikipedia). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.203.31.243 (talk) 22:59, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

The Associated Press account of Donna Summer passing away at Key West is incorrect. See Sarasota Herald-Tribune lead article on Donna Summer's Death. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.203.31.243 (talk) 23:09, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

Tampa television station WTSP 10 also confirms that Ms. Summer passed away in Englewood, Florida. Here is the link: http://www.wtsp.com/news/topstories/article/255637/250/Singer-Donna-Summer-dies-in-Florida-at-63. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.203.31.243 (talk) 00:05, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

I changed the phrasing of the 9/11 reference to "she believed" as the source states. Tomsv 98 (talk) 21:13, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Why would the Daily Telegraph not be considered a reliable source? Tomsv 98 (talk) 22:35, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Infobox edit

Since there's a template that says not to make changes to the infobox or lead section without discussing, here is my full explanation of changes. These are according to the musical artist infobox MOS:

1. Removing nickname from Alias/aka parameter. Only official stage names go here. There's a place for nicknames in person infobox but not musical artists. Don't ask me why. You'd have to take it up on the talk page there.
2. Removing USA wikilink, which is considered overlinking.
3. Changing Singer-songwriter to "Singer, songwriter". According to definition, a singer-songwriter is one who writes all (or nearly all) her own songs – words and music.
4. Changing < br > to commas (per MOS) in labels. And actually parenthetical year ranges aren't really supposed to go in infoboxes, but since they're small, I'll let it go. --Musdan77 (talk) 22:43, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

The lead section...

OK, who edited and put "Upside Down"? That was a Diana Ross hit. BrothaTimothy (talk · contribs) 20:55, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

Pokémon 2000. The Power Of One

should it also be mentioned that she did a song for Pokemon 2000 The Power Of One? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.60.194.188 (talk) 02:24, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

I'm surprised that previous mention hasn't been made, particularly in light of Herman Cain's quoting of this song in his presidential campaign. (Or maybe it has been, and was removed in the edit wars following her death.) -Kain (talk) 07:02, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Birth name

The article currently lists the birth name as "LaDonna Adrian Gaines." However, page 445 of Joel Whitburn's The Billboard Book of Top 40 Hits (5th ed. 1992) lists the birth name as "Adrian Donna Gaines". I have no idea which is correct. Famspear (talk) 00:41, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

You'll also find find a lot of sources (also recent ones like NBC or USA Today) for "LaDonna Andrea Gaines". Which seems to make more sense than "Adrian" IMHO.--NSX-Racer (talk) 00:49, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

I wonder if her real middle name is either Adrianne or Andrea. It's kinda weird if her family gave her a "male" middle surname. Donna's life is so private that little is really known of her background, there was a sketch of it in her Biography special. Maybe her middle name is wrong. I don't know. I think it's LaDonna Adrianne Gaines though. BrothaTimothy (talk · contribs) 01:29, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

I brought this up on the talk page back in 2006. Just check page 5 of Donna's 2003 autobiography, "I was born LaDonna Adrian Gaines on New Year's Eve...". Crisso (talk) 11:33, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. So Adrian it is. BrothaTimothy (talk · contribs) 01:03, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Here's a link. Just click on cover to look inside and scroll down to page 5. Crisso (talk) 18:00, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Legacy Section has not been updated with Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction

Obviously this is pretty recent and has been updated in the header but the legacy section explicitly says she was never inducted, which is no longer true. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.129.33.122 (talk) 02:09, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

Singapore et al. and Donna Summer

Donna Summer has a huge following in Singapore and most of Malaysia. There are night clubs which play almost exclusively Donna Summer songs which have hand gestures associated with them that everyone knows--a type of dancing using the symbolism of the song to create the gestures while standing still. Given that a search for "Donna Summer" returns mostly articles related to her death from Singapore, I'm surprised they haven't been mentioned. Anyone actually from Singapore want to write about the Donna Summer phenomenon? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.231.35.176 (talk) 16:32, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

Rush Limbaugh

It was notable, because it was supposed to be an example of a celebrity who reacted to her death.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Vnisanian2001 (talk) 16:32, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

The Reaction section is not just a list of celebrities' reactions to her death. Most of them actually knew her, and all but President Obama are in the music industry. That's why those are notable. --Musdan77 (talk) 05:12, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

Cover versions section

I will be removing this section (which is unsourced and has been tagged since Dec. 2012 -- way too long) and moving it to the List of cover versions of Donna Summer songs article (and cleaning that up). This section goes beyond the subject of this article. --Musdan77 (talk) 19:03, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

Donna Summer needs a legacy

She's the Queen of Disco, why isn't it a legacy written for her?--Braina90 (talk) 17:07, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

This is an encyclopedia, not a tribute site. If you want to write a "legacy", whatever that is, you're free to do it elsewhere. — Quicksilver^{T @} 17:28, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

I think s/he means a section on Summer's legacy. And the simple answer is that either a. No reliable sources have attributed a legacy to her or b. No editor has compiled such sources into a paragraph. If you think you can find such sources, go ahead and add them! Achowat (talk) 20:35, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/18/arts/music/donna-summer-queen-of-disco-dies-at-63.html --Braina90 (talk) 23:12, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

http://www.usatoday.com/life/people/obit/story/2012-05-17/donna-summer-disco-queen-dies/55039474/1 --Braina90 (talk) 23:12, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2012/05/17/disco-queen-donna-summer-dead-at-63-report-says/ --Braina90 (talk) 23:12, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

http://www.billboard.com/news/donna-summer-queen-of-disco-dead-at-63-1007084752.story#/news/donna-summer-queen-of-disco-dead-at-63-1007084752.story--Braina90 (talk) 23:14, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

NyTimes,UsaToday,Billboard Hot 100,Fox news all called her Queen of Disco, she needs a legacy section.

Those are very good sources. She is "The Queen of Disco" which is already in the infobox under A.K.A. Four word do not equal a "Legacy section" Mlpearc (powwow) 00:56, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Influence section would be more like it. I am shocked there isn't one. "I Feel Love" is precursor to all electronic pop and dance music since, 12" inch "long form" single single became common etc. Numerous reliable sourcing in obit/appreciation articles discuss this. [4],[5],[6],[7] I am busy with life and my usual articles but if nobody does this and I get time I will add this. Edkollin (talk) 16:34, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Wow http://www.billboard.com/news/rock-hall-regrets-donna-summer-snub-1007096352.story#/news/rock-hall-regrets-donna-summer-snub-1007096352.story

I have to say, I was really surprised that just after her death, there was no stir, tributes or documentaries on her in media? She was huge at one time. And worse, there are many who still don't know she died! There were no big waves on TV when she died. The music industry has grown more heartless over the years. They sure did dump new re-released collections of her music real quick online but not much else. Growing up in the 80's and 90's and even the early 2000's, the deaths of artists like Donna Summer would make big waves for weeks on TV. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.88.222.106 (talk) 18:18, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

Anti-gay controversy

Under the sub-heading "Controversy" we read about her anti-gay comments (which she did make), but didn't she later recant and help to raise money for an AIDS victims charity connected with Elton John? If any one knows more about this, it could be added to the "Controversy" section. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 08:13, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry, you can not say that a women who sold nearly 100,000,000 records and had universal recognition had her career somehow damaged by a useless boycott and the returning of a few thousand records. This is just advocacy and has no place in wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.57.23.82 (talk) 03:04, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

More info about her Christian faith?

It’s a bit odd that Donna Summer’s Christian faith is barely mentioned in the article. It is mostly mentioned as an aside in the section “Controversy”, about her alleged remarks on homosexuality and AIDS. Otherwise no mention of her well-known return to the church in 1979 and subsequent decision to stop singing one of her biggest hits. Seems like short shrift, but I don’t have time to add info to the article about this important and well-documented aspect of her biography. —Kai Carver (talk) 17:23, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

Funeral

I have just removed some intrusive, navel-gazing tabloid-style stuff from the Funeral section. There is no need for it and it was a private service. BLP applies to her surviving relatives, not just her. - Sitush (talk) 20:24, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

Controversy section

I am removing a single sentence here about her alleged comments on HIV/AIDS damaging her career. It may well be the case, or may be that there's a viable source for that, but until an editor finds said source and references it, I will remove. Thanks. 66.115.217.67 (talk) 19:14, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

It has been sourced, both now and in the past, and if people keep removing it then I will ensure that they are blocked from editing. 5.64.62.249 (talk) 15:28, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

Shouldn't the "Love To Love You" controversy text be moved to this section? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.202.33.17 (talk) 22:23, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

Not a nonsmoker

Since she was a former smoker it is misleading to call her a nonsmoker in the death section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.154.234.201 (talk) 09:45, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

Donna Summer on TV US 83-84

Mention Donna as guest on

Solid Gold, (Paramount), with the Muppets. She sang Christmas songs with the Muppets. Chatted  Very memorable, rare. JS 2601:145:8003:2930:392E:2F5A:5609:18A0 (talk) 12:06, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

German godspell and hair should appear in the discography

Under her birth name Donna Gaines she seems to have stared in the musical Hair, singing in German.

The recording http://www.amazon.com/Deutsche-Originalaufnahme-Haare-Hair/dp/B000CQRFSC/ref=sr_1_12?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1337650993&sr=1-12

German web page with mention of Donna Gaines http://www.relativityhair.de/catherine.hair/Hair.html

German WP page with some details http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donna_Summer

Donna Gaines listed as a being in the German musical http://www.musik-sammler.de/media/467301

So I think it should be listed in her discography. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.54.119.58 (talk) 15:21, 22 May 2012 (UTC)