Talk:Donkey Kong Country/Archive 1

Archive 1

Gameboy differences

Do we need every pointless and stupid little detail about the differences in the versions?--Drat (Talk) 11:50, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

No, Wikipedia is not an faq so I'm removing it. Masken 19:00, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

DK Jamz

Made a page called DK Jamz mostly using the information on this page. How should we link it to this article? -- Sylph

I did it, what do you think? Table3 14:45, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Speed runs

I'm not sure we need the speed run records section in the article. If there's an external page I suppose it could be linked to in External Links Pelago 19:25, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Reference tag

I just removed the ref tag as this article is well-sourced. Kukini 05:23, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Virtual Console

Someone added some BS about Nintendo replacing the characters from DKC with characters from DKJB when it will be released on the virtual console, this is BS as there is no sources and Nintendo would not wreck the best selling SNES game like that it has been removes so please do not re add it ~Guess who i am 8:02am Saturday 26 August 2006

I say we let them add it, but demand a citation. That way we can know if it's real or not. MasterDS 22:13, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

All right then, but I still don't want people to be worried that one of the greatest SNES games would be ruined on the VC like that ~Guess who i am 9:38am Saturday 26 August 2006

Don't worry, nobody is worried. In fact some could consider that an enhancement, since we already have DKC games released on GBA and SNES it'd be neat to have something slightly different on Wii. The gameplay would be exactly the same anyway so it's not like it's a big deal.

Yeah it is because the characters in Donkey Kong Country are way better than the characters in Donkey Kong Jungle Beat Guess who i am 03:26, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Flamatory opinions have no place here. Only about 13 people in the entire world would notice the difference anyway.

Yeah it would be hard to notice if you removed 2 of the main characters from one of the best selling games on the SNES Guess who i am 02:59, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

I cannot speak for this game, but I read in NGamer magazine that no Virtual Console titles will be receiving visual enhancements; ergo, games such as Super Mario 64 and Super Mario Bros. (NES) will look exactly the same as they always did. This certainly seems consistent with video footage of the Virtual Console in action, which featured the aforementioned games. Presumably Donkey Kong Country will remain the same, also. Makron1n 23:55, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for that information, I will sleep easier tonight with that information and my new bed Guess who i am 11:02, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Competition version?

There's a picture of a Donkey Kong Country Competition version in the article, but no info about it. Does anyone know anything about this? Ace of Sevens 15:50, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

What was the competition cartridge all about anyway? What makes it so different from the original game? --Plainnym 14:38, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

I found only this information "It was used for various promotions and contests at either Wal-Mart or Blockbuster Video stores."

But I'm interested in further information too.

Here's a video that I found on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XASdSRSsem8 TanookiMario257 18:07, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Flash Movie

Can Someone move the Flash movie section to a new article Called Donkey Kong 1 1/2? Look In History To Find It—Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.184.46.20 (talk • contribs)

There is no need for an article on that flash animation unless it meets the requirements of WP:WEB.--Drat (Talk) 04:15, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

WHY!!! iT'S A GOOD MOVIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DIDN'T YOU SEE THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!—Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.184.46.20 (talk • contribs)

Good is an opinion. The movie has to be the subject of multiple, reliable, independent non-trivial works.--Drat (Talk) 03:26, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Helpers

The helpers section is located twice in the article. Perhaps one should be deleted, they are very similar. Evils Dark 04:19, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Can you add something about the game over screen to DKC 1,2,3 ? since you know its known for being very Spooky

"Rare took significant financial risks in purchasing the expensive SGI equipment used to render the graphics"

Is this true? Weren't the SGI workstations et al provided by Nintendo for Rare? I will have to look up my old Super Play magazines to find out whether this was the case. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.132.34.134 (talk) 01:47, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, that's an old bit of info I think I read on Rarenet many years ago and added here the better part of three years ago, when I didn't know any better. Kill it if you can't find anything.--Drat (Talk) 02:21, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

GBA version

In the section discussing ports: "The GBA version was expected to play as the SNES version did, but the control was different enough to break the "flow" that was designed into the original SNES version. This is because the GBA version was largely re-made for the GBA, rather than being properly ported to the GBA platform. In the original SNES version, some areas were designed and set up intentionally for the player to pass through a specific way and are now broken in the GBA version." This doesn't give any examples of what it's talking about nor citations. It also seems to have an obvious POV, especially the second sentence. Lord Seth (talk) 23:52, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Cover Art

It's a UK-written game, for a Japanese company, first released in the UK. So am wondering whether the US cover art is the most appropriate. --Oscarthecat (talk) 20:26, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

I don't think it matters much as long as the boxart is in English. —Ost (talk) 21:08, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Synopsis/Plot

What's the difference between a synopsis and a plot? I thought they were synonymous, but there is a section in the article called "Synopsis" and another section called "Plot". Is there any difference between the two? Or were they put as separate sections accidentally? 98.202.38.225 (talk) 04:37, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Ignore the above comment that I made. I just realized that Synopsis was a main section, and Plot was a subsection. 98.202.38.225 (talk) 04:41, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

3-D Side Scrolling?

I know the graphics are good for the SNES but it's not 3-D. It's a 2-D platformer. With animated sprites. Not 3-D —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.214.88.91 (talk) 17:01, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

source 22

The current source 22 isn't an official source and does not appear to say anything about a version number. Plus it throws up ads. I keep getting javascript is taking too long messages. Hackwrench (talk) 02:51, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Promotional Item detail

In the UK the game shipped with a promotional audio CD called "Go Ape!" yet this is not even mentioned in Wikipedia article. Should it be added?

Details on the CD are below : http://www.discogs.com/Various-Go-Ape/release/1481263 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ahjmorton (talk • contribs) 13:15, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

"Hates Donkey Kong"

"Donkey Kong's creator Shigeru Miyamoto apparently hates Donkey Kong Country stating that it proves gamers will buy anything just because it has good graphics. It was also panned by many critics saying that the game is boring."

I erased this line from 'reception'. No point to have this in the article, for one thing, saying he "apparently hates it" isn't encyclopedia-like, as well as having no sources of places that had critics say it was "boring".

Besides, in the development history section, it covers the topic in detail. Theseven7 10:57, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

That's just some revolted kid who hates Nintendo. In fact, everyone praised this game and its magnificence. And I don't think Miyamoto would ever come to hate any of its creations (that is, if he wasn't involved with the Virtual Boy, but that's another story). 201.9.148.117 (talk) 04:14, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Miyamoto did actually say something like that. He apparently was not impressed with the game and felt that "American gamers will buy anything so long as it just looks pretty". [1] Pretty harsh. --Thaddius (talk) 12:45, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

I removed this section of the article as Miyamoto has denied the story that he disliked the game. He calls the story a rumor that's not the case and says he was very involved in making the original game. [2] Froo (talk) 01:42, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

By what about this?: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Mario_World_2_Yoshi%27s_Island#cite_note-kent-3 Notes 3 and 4 talk about the infamous quote. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.0.122.231 (talk) 09:44, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

characters

Donkey Kong

Donkey Kong is the main protagonist in the Donkey Kong series, which the game implies is the son of the original Donkey Kong, who is now presented as Cranky Kong. Donkey Kong sets out to recover all of his stolen bananas, which is shown as the main goal of the game. On the first level, there is an entrance you can enter that contains either all of his bananas, or none at all.

Diddy Kong

Diddy Kong is the secondary protagonist in Donkey Kong Country and its spinoff Donkey Kong Land. Known as Donkey Kong's "little buddy", Donkey Kong entrusts him with jobs during the night time. In the game, his lack of concentration in guarding the banana hoard resulted in its loss.

King K. Rool

K. Rool Rool is the main antagonist of the Donkey Kong Country and Donkey Kong Land spin-off series, and is the leader of the Kremlings. K. Rool appears suited in nothing but a gold crown and a red cape. K. Rool steals Donkey Kong's banana hoard and retreats to his pirate ship known as the Gangplank Galleon where he awaits the player. He sends various minions, the majority being part of the Kremling Krew, to many areas of the island, in hopes of capturing Diddy and Donkey Kong.

Cranky Kong

Cranky Kong is the aging ancestor of Donkey Kong. As Donkey Kong's father, the manual describes him as the original Donkey Kong from Shigeru Miyamoto's original 1981 Donkey Kong arcade game. Cranky is best known for his wise cracks against DK and friends, his cranky attitude, and his blatant cockiness. Players will regularly run into the cabin where he lives and Cranky offers help about stages in whichever particular world the player is in when speaking with him, while making a variety of jokes (often talking about the game's advanced nature or criticizing the player's skill level). Cranky can be found in Cranky's Cabin in every world.

Funky Kong

Funky Kong is found at Funky's Flights in every world map. He allows the player to travel back and forth through the many different worlds in Donkey Kong Country. This is the only way to travel from world to world without having to defeat the world's boss again. Funky Kong uses a Jumbo Jet Barrel which is a barrel with wings and a cockpit resembling a Jumbo Jet protruding from it.

Candy Kong

Candy Kong is found at Candy's save point on every world map. Candy's Save Point is the only way to save the game's data. She is Donkey Kong's love interest. Animal AlliesDonkey and Diddy can gain some extra help from their animal friends on certain levels by locating and breaking open large wooden crates with an animal symbol specific to each ally.

Rambi the Rhino

Rambi is capable of charging ahead at great speeds and is useful to open secret doors hidden in seemingly solid walls. Expresso the Ostrich

An incredible runner, Expresso is even faster than Rambi. Though he is incapable of flight, he can flap wings to extend his already long running jump distance. He can't defeat enemies by jumping on them.

Enguarde the Swordfish

Being a fish, Enguarde can only be found on aquatic levels and is a great asset in such locations. He swims faster than Donkey or Diddy and, unlike them, can attack and defeat underwater enemies with his sword nose which allows players to go through enemies rather than being forced to avoid them. By obtaining the help of Enguarde, no underwater level is too difficult.

Winky the Frog

With his large, powerful legs, Winky can jump on and defeat some enemies the Kongs cannot. His jumping abilities are also useful in reaching high ledges and secret, hidden areas.

Squawks the Parrot

Squawks is the one animal ally that the Kongs can not ride. However, he is still able to assist the Kongs. He appears only in dark areas such as caves and, once let out of his crate, carries a lantern to illuminate the Kongs' path --81.155.247.218 (talk) 01:26, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Removal from Wii Shop

Figured that should be mentioned in the article, since it's fairly significant. I couldn't find a source that gave the date for the removal in NA though. --Thunderbird8 (talk) 02:48, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus after 24 days or so inactivity. Xoloz (talk) 03:10, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

---

• Donkey Kong Country → Donkey Kong Country (video game)
• Donkey Kong Country (series) → Donkey Kong Country

– As we do per convention with other articles such as Castlevania (video game), The Legend of Zelda (video game), and Metroid (video game), I think we should move Donkey Kong Country to the above-mentioned title and Donkey Kong Country (series) to just Donkey Kong Country. Relisted Hot Stop 06:41, 1 March 2014 (UTC) Arkhandar (Talk • Contribs) 02:02, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

• Support we now have five games in the series as well as a TV series. This goes in line with Wikipedia:Naming conventions (video games) stating that if the series name is solely in conflict with the first game in the series the series should be the primary topic if there are at least three games and as well as one piece of unrelated media, which in this case is the TV series--174.93.163.194 (talk) 18:51, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose - The Donkey Kong Country (series) article is a glorified disambiguation page, with nothing actually indicating the series is titled as such, the sources do not cover the series as it is defined in that article. For example, it ignores the Donkey Kong Land games which are more closely related to the original game than it's current gen revivals. This is how Hardcore Gaming 101 treats the series - http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/donkeykongcountry/donkeykongcountry.htm. There is only one game titled Donkey Kong Country, it should remain the primary target. - hahnchen 00:31, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

The Donkey Kong Country (series) article still needs work, but we've got to start somewhere, hence this discussion. A Donkey Kong Land reference could be made in the article as long as the connection is backed by reliable sources, which Hardcore Gaming 101 doesn't seem to fit in the category.--Arkhandar (Talk • Contribs) 02:08, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

• Hardcore Gaming 101 is listed as a situational source at Wikipedia:VG/RS#Situational_sources. I linked to it because it was a recent article. There is no indication that the series has overtaken the eponymous title in terms of impact. I'm personally much more likely to refer to the game as Donkey Kong Country, without any qualifiers, yet explicitly state the word "series" if I'm talking about the collection of games. - hahnchen 02:36, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

Hardcore Gaming 101 may be a situational source but it has restrictions, such as the authors (David DeRienzo and Nick Zverloff) which aren't listed as reliable. As for whether it the series has overtaken the eponymous title in terms of impact or not I don't know, but according to Wikipedia:Naming conventions (video games) (referenced above - 3 titles + 1 non-game media) we should be renaming the pages.--Arkhandar (Talk • Contribs) 11:51, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

The reliability of HG101 isn't really the point, it's just a case of someone treating the series differently to how Wikipedia treats it, which is as unreliable. The 3 titles + 1 non-game rule is completely arbitrary, and added with very little discussion. - hahnchen 14:00, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

Nevertheless, these policies are the current consensus and we as editors should abide to them, unless someone opens a new discussion and a new consensus is reached.--Arkhandar (Talk • Contribs) 21:40, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

What current consensus? Because I'm opposing on the ground of Wikipedia:Primary topic, not some parochial and arbitrary 3+1 rule. - hahnchen 23:13, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

And given that the series already has 5 video game entries and one animated series, it is my opinion that the primary topic is the Donkey Kong Country series. By having the video game as the primary topic we're most likely ignoring the fact that the series is/was a lot broader than the first video game in the series to the reader.--Arkhandar (Talk • Contribs) 13:56, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

• Oppose - I see why the move was proposed, but DKC the game was an ENORMOUSLY important game (as far as video games go, right?) and the franchise, as a franchise, seems to be a really unlikely target for what someone's looking for when they type in "Donkey Kong Country". Red Slash 03:49, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
• Support the first move (to videogame) Weak support on the second move for the franchise. I could also live with an index listing all DKC instead of having an article if people are disagreable with having the franchise as primary. But the franchise and the videogame a clearly competitive primaries, so the videogame should be moved. -- 70.50.151.11 (talk) 08:45, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Orphaned references in Donkey Kong Country

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Donkey Kong Country's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "Amazon.com":

• From High-definition video: "Amazon.com: Help > Digital Products > Amazon Video On Demand". Amazon.com. Retrieved 2009-10-16. Our 2.5 Mbps HD files are streamed in high-quality 720p resolution.
• From Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy's Kong Quest: "Donkey Kong Country 2 at Amazon.com". Amazon.com. Retrieved 2009-09-25. {{cite web}}: |first= missing |last= (help)

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 23:58, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

GA review

• The GA bot has gone haywire, so for the minute I have manually linked the GA review here. When it closes, update the template in the usual manner, and things should be resolved. Otherwise, SNUGGUMS will end up having more GA reviews points than Eric Corbett and Wizardman combined! Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 15:41, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

Japanese title?

---

Was DKC or Killer Instinct first? I thought DKC was. I particularly remember reading how Rares purchase of expensive SGI workstation(s) to create the CGI used for the sprites was a risky manouvere, that would have meant Rares financial death if the game was a flop.--DooMDrat 11:29, Apr 12, 2005 (UTC)

According to http://www.planetnintendo.com/nindb/fran/index.shtml, dkc came out a year before killer instinct on SNES Rmrfstar 23:49, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Thanks, editing article accordingly.--DooMDrat 09:21, Apr 14, 2005 (UTC)

---

Game's influence

Shouldn't there be more about how influental this game was? After all, this was an incredibly well selling game that 'saved the SNES.' It seems kind of odd that there is no mention of that here.

DK Coin

I'm kind of wondering why DK Coin redirects to here, DK Coins aren't even in this game. -- Lord Crayak

GBA version

The releasedate of the Japanese version of this game is December 12, 2003. I found this on the Japanese website of Nintendo. Link: http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n08/before/n2005_b01.html --Erik 10 January 2007

Levels

You may need the headline "Levels", by which they're in each location, such as "Kongo Jungle". --PJ Pete

External links modified

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• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120823012726/http://www.ign.com/articles/2007/02/20/donkey-kong-country to http://www.ign.com/articles/2007/02/20/donkey-kong-country

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More on the pre-rendering

There's a minidoc/promotional video on the making of DKC on the Internet Archive. It has a few good tidbits for the Development section here, but specifically around 6:30ish minutes in, a guy talks about the computer they used to render the graphics. Would be good to add that in particular. – czar 06:29, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

• Another great source on ACM in Nintendo Power 74 (July 1995) p. 40–43 czar 09:11, 24 December 2016 (UTC)
• IGN Staff (March 1, 2001). "GameCube Developer Profile: Rare". IGN. has a bit more on ACM and (somewhat?) implies that the SGI workstation was purchased to prep for the N64, which Nintendo was building with SGI (see Talk:Stamper brothers/GA1) czar 07:27, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

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The 'country' naming origin

Recently, the reason why the name of the came includes 'country' has come to light, via a tweet by the designer of the series Greg Mayles.

https://twitter.com/Ghoulyboy/status/1029314106690596868

"'Country' was the code name Nintendo gave the game after visiting Rare. We were located in the picturesque and rural countryside, hence the name 'country'. Somehow it managed to end up part of the game's name!"

This is definitely a piece of information that is substantial enough to warrant inclusion in this (and all other Donkey Kong Country) article. Does this warrant a new section or is it a sentence that should be added somewhere?

00aa0 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 19:35, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

I found an archive of Retro Gamer No.43

I'm not great with editing sources, so I thought I would link it here for someone to add later. I believe this sources Diddy Kong's origin? https://computerarchive.org/files/computer/magazines/retro%20gamer/Retro_Gamer_Issue_043.pdf

There is also a download for Gamepro No.65 here; https://www.retromags.com/magazines/usa/gamepro/gamepro-issue-65/ -Plague von Karma (talk) 14:22, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

Current citation errors.

I am currently in the process of fixing all the citation errors I have introduced; please do not revert the changes in the meantime. E to the Pi times i (talk | contribs) 18:48, 17 March 2018 (UTC)

This was a bit of a silly thing for me to say. In retrospect, I might have used {{In use}} or pre-prepared all the changes; I can't remember why I did it this way. Retro (talk | contribs) 20:01, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

DKC team on the game's 25th anniversary

Donkey Kong Country’s original team shared their development memories in light of the game's 25th anniversary this month. It may include some details that can be good to include in the article.92.244.24.162 (talk) 10:55, 24 November 2019 (UTC)

DK64

I don't really have a horse in this race and it's not a big deal, but is it fair to exclude DK64 from the lead purely because it doesn't have "Country" in the title? It's still discussed in the article and DK64 was clearly conceived and marketed (and discussed by sources) as a 3D sequel to the DKC games. I think it's slightly misleading to claim there was a 14-year hiatus during which no games in "the series" were developed when Rare released DK64 in that time. It relies on a pretty narrow definition of "the series" that we're assuming readers share. Popcornfud (talk) 13:07, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

Popcornfud, from what I've seen sources don't really consider DK64 to be part of the Country series, just related. For instance, this NWR piece contains the quote: "Although quite a few games were released in the Donkey Kong franchise after DKC3, none of them were in the same vein (or series) as Donkey Kong Country. Donkey Kong 64, a pseudo-sequel to the SNES games, delivered a Super Mario 64 style 3D platformer with plenty of collectables" (emphasis mine). Our own DK64 article even states that it wasn't intended to be a Country game, and there was consensus at the talk page not to label it one.

Don't get me wrong—the game should be (and is) mentioned in the article—I just think putting it in the lead is too much. JOEBRO64 13:18, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

TheJoebro64, I think that's all fair enough, if there's a consensus to exclude DK64 from the series. Popcornfud (talk) 19:39, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

Nukage incoming

@Jaguar: how do you want to split the work? I've already written some of the development section at User:TheJoebro64/drafts/DKC, but if you want to handle development, then go ahead (a lot of the sources I've gathered are there, and I don't think there's much left; I will note that some are quite long). I'll gladly handle other aspects like the gameplay and reception sections. I already have the gameplay section written out, fwiw (gotta replace that god-awful one that's in the article currently). JOEBRO64 01:08, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

@TheJoebro64: perhaps it would save some time and be simpler if I instead made a start on the reception section now. I see from your draft that the development section is already almost complete and I think it would be easier if I let you put the finishing touches on it and then we could always add more to it later. I spent an hour last night trying to find the video of a Rare member saying they got investigated by the Ministry of Defence for the amount of advanced workstations they had in their studio! Unfortunately I couldn't find it. I'll nuke the reception section now. JAGUAR 09:59, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

Jaguar, that video is the one that's cited in the article right now. The Shesez documentary, it's around the 51:30 mark. JOEBRO64 14:56, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

Also, I've got some sources for the reception section gathered at my draft as well. I'd recommend splitting the contemporary reception from the retrospective, or at least distinguish them in the text, because opinions regarding the game have somewhat changed over time. JOEBRO64 16:29, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

@TheJoebro64: sorry for the delay – I've been unexpectedly busy this week and circumstances have whisked me away from editing. I've almost finished the reception section and should hopefully have the bulk of it finished tomorrow. I'll make a start on the legacy section tomorrow too. Also do you have access to the Nintendo Power sources? I thought some kind soul uploaded the scans of all issues a few years ago but they seem to have been taken down. JAGUAR 21:14, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

Jaguar, here's NP. The review should be in there somewhere. No problem with the delay by the way, I've also been taking a bit of a break (should get back in full swing over the weekend) because David Wise speaks in a foreign language when he talks about the technical aspects of the sountrack. JOEBRO64 21:23, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

TheJoebro64, again, apologies for the setback! I would have tackled the reception section on its head last night had some RL drama not distracted me. It's been more difficult than I thought. I would say I've milked every review for what it's worth as unfortunately most of them don't have any substance. Also translating Polish and German scans have proved a nightmare, but my words should be accurate enough. I'm going to complete the legacy section now, thankfully there's enough retrospective material to cover that. After that I'll revamp the gameplay section – shouldn't be difficult as the reviews cover more than enough for that. You've done a masterful job with the development – it shouldn't be too long now before we can nominate this. Do you think there's anything else to be done? JAGUAR 21:08, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

Jaguar, don't worry, it's all good. Hope everything is alright with you. Once I'm done with development (still need to comb through some videos, but fortunately with two exceptions they're not entirely about DKC so it won't take nearly as long), the big thing is getting the refs all sorted out. We've got a weird combination of traditionally formatted references and SFN ones. We need to choose a consistent format and fix that all up; hopefully there's a script or something that can get that done quickly. After that? We should just give the article a thorough copyedit and then I think we'll be good to go. I can ask Popcornfud if he'll mind giving it a haircut, but if he doesn't feel like it I can just go through it myself (I don't think we should go to the GOCE; they're great, but it's sort of like asking a random passerby to paint your house IMO).

Just an aside: we've gotten a hell of a lot done in such a short amount of time! This has been awesome. (Also when we nominate the article we need to talk like Kremlings. This includes always using k's instead of c's, typing three s's for every single s, and frequently referencing Donkey Kong with malice. That way we kan get thossse reviewsss koming in fassst and beat that kooky Kong.) JOEBRO64 21:20, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

Jaguar, also, do you think a picture demonstrating the graphical downgrades in the Game Boy rereleases is warranted? I think it'd be interesting for readers to see how the game was downgraded to run on inferior hardware, and HG101 provides screenshot comparisons we could use. JOEBRO64 21:33, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

LMAO I would be up for that! There's also the question of DKC2 (my favourite) which we could consider in the future. It took me a while to get used to the SFN format as I've been away for so long but we should definitely standardise all the refs to Harvard. Had I known about it years ago I would have used the same format in all my GAs; IMO it looks more encyclopaedic and 'professional' if you know what I mean.

I like the idea of the SNES/GBA comparison. It wouldn't hurt to add it in. I still think a couple of the images are too small – on my monitor they look tiny but I see Arkhandar mentioned WP:PICSIZE. Not sure but I've always increased screenshots to 250px. JAGUAR 21:41, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

I'd love to tackle DKC2 as well, as it's also my favorite (though I sort of think that Tropical Freeze may be a bit better). JOEBRO64 21:46, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

Jaguar, hey, I just wanted to ask if you know of any sources that say the DKC2 lava levels were originally designed for the original? It's a claim I've seen quite a few times over the years but have never seen it in an interview. Gregg Mayles stopped short of admitting it in the GameXplain interview, when he said that DKC2 was what the first game would've been if Rare had more time, so I have to wonder if it's just speculation. JOEBRO64 17:13, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

TheJoebro64 again, very sorry for my week long absence. This time it was due to re-enrolling at university, more drama, and an unberable heatwave (any order you like)! I went two issues of ONM and couldn't find anything about any DKC1 content being carried over in the second game. I haven't heard of it before but I'll keep looking. I'm going to finish the legacy section now. JAGUAR 16:33, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

Sounds good. I only need to do one more video (it's the Digital Foundry one, and I'm pretty sure only around 20-30 minutes is actually about this game) JOEBRO64 17:01, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

I think development's done, as I implemented the DF Retro video. JOEBRO64 23:14, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

Very good! I'm not sure what else to add to the legacy section as I think I've milked all the retrospective opinions for what they are worth. All that remains now is the gameplay section – I will make a start on that today. At least it's very easy to source. JAGUAR 10:37, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

Sorry if I'm causing edit conflicts. I believe we're almost finished? Converting all the refs to harv will take some time — I can finish that in the morning if you like. Do you think we're OK content-wise? I feel like I could add a little more to the gameplay section. By the way, the development section is impeccable! JAGUAR 22:44, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

Thanks! We're probably good content-wise. The only thing I can think of is the "influence" section needing more sources but I can get that out of the way right now. Getting the harvs out of the way would be great, I'll do what I can tonight. JOEBRO64 22:58, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

@TheJoebro64: I'm really sorry for my absence again. I've had a lot going on these past couple of months which have drawn me away from editing (among other things). I would explain but I couldn't plaster it on Wikipedia! Needless to say I've rediscovered my focus. Would you like to go ahead with the FAC? Is there anything else that needs to be done before we can nominate? JAGUAR 11:35, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Jaguar, just a few more references and the gameplay section needs to be cited. I can handle all that later today. Otherwise I think we're good. JOEBRO64 11:42, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

ESRB

Was this the first game rated by the ESRB? If not, I would think it would be one of the first. Sonic & Knuckles wasn't ESRB-rated and it came out a month before this game. If this really was the first ESRB-rated video game (not counting older games that were rereleased), that would almost certainly be an important thing to mention in this article. MightyArms (talk) 02:24, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

Novakovic: "less experienced" and Wise teaching

@TheJoebro64: Regarding this revert:

Yes, I did read the interview, including the quoted material. But, the context of the quoted material makes it clear that Novakovic was less experienced at composition for the SNES specifically, while the one-sentence Wikipedia summarization can easily be read as "less experienced at general musical composition". Wise offering support and encouragement in the technical aspects of hex coding in the interview became "[Wise] helped teach her" in the current sentence. To me, the current wording seems synthy in context, especially given that it's WP:BLP-related. I was also unsure about due weight given the source; there may be alternative included details that summarize more broadly and flow better. Retro (talk | contribs) 04:15, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

If the issue was the lack of clarification, I think you could've just done that change yourself (WP:BOLD). Regardless, I've clarified it. JOEBRO64 20:13, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

With the benefit of hindsight, clarification would have probably been preferable. I was also considering the relevance in my removal, but I think I was missing some nuance in some of the details.

(For instance, for a moment, I was confused about how Wise had more experience when DKC was the first SNES game he worked on, but many of the basic skills from NES composition would probably transfer)

I will consider any further content changes more carefully, and probably discuss them first. There are few other areas of the article where I have minor quibbles, but I also need to read some of the new sources more carefully, and think about them some more. Retro (talk | contribs) 22:56, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

Diddy Kong nephew

I believe Diddy Kong is indeed the nephew, I think it could be cited to Nintendo Power mag or maybe even the instruction manual? Andre🚐 20:51, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Many, many reliable sources, from just a simple Google search, refer to Diddy as Donkey Kong's nephew ([3][4][5][6][7], for starters), and Rare's own website said Diddy is Donkey Kong's nephew. Rare's PR guy Leigh Loveday also said Diddy was meant to be Donkey Kong's nephew in their old letters page in 1999. My guess is that it's something that Nintendo stopped referencing once they retook control of the Donkey Kong IP so some fans are adamant it's no longer the case, in spite of it being widely accepted as fact by RSs and there being no evidence to the contrary. JOEBRO64 21:23, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

TheJoebro64 is moving the goalposts as he did before. What he has insisted in his edit summaries is that there is a sourced Greg Mayles interview from the time of this game - Donkey Kong Country (1994) - constantly suggesting something pre-N64 up his sleeve. As expected, none of these match the description consistently teased. The 1999 site is A) time-inappropriate as it was published for Donkey Kong 64, five years after the original Donkey Kong Country released, during which time over -six- games with wholly relevant supplemental material came out that never once remotely referred to Diddy as DK's nephew, B) not Greg Mayles, and C) clearly uncertain language as the writer specifically adds "I think" as if internal confusion was at play. Not to mention the observation that Rare Scribes was known for its casual atmosphere that didn't take itself too seriously. And sources you are apparently using to justify it are worse, being 2010's-2020 editorials, and most certainly neither the work of the creators nor copright holders that have control over the fictional narrative of their intellectual property. If anything, all this proves is that citogenesis is a concerning, damaging journalistic issue that deserves swift, decisive change to break the cycle. To an outsider, these continuous reverts on the sole part of one party resemble a pattern of projecting and deflecting criticism. Just so everyone's on the same page here, a while back, to no avail, at least one other person did try to reach out on TheJoebro's talk page. I won't repeat all of it since anyone can read for themselves, but this person's data was largely sound and presented relatively raw and so he should be aware now if he paid attention before that his assumptions are, at best, not the whole story. I'll just touch on his latest claim that there is supposedly "no evidence to the contrary." Actually, yes. Just because one doesn't bother looking into it critically, or are relying on memory, whatever the case may be, doesn't mean there isn't plenty. Besides the obvious that Mayles most probably did not fail his on-the-job anatomical studies by intentionally designing a spider monkey to be related to a gorilla (as all of the other related Kongs are at the very least based on the same species), not to mention the unbelievable nonexistence of DK's brother, not only is there evidence to the contrary, but the evidence in general shows that the story couldn't be kept straight towards the end of the Nintendo/Rare partnership (which, might I remind you, has distinct precedence in the character relationship between DK and Cranky that also went off the rails around the same time, except at least that one only had two possibilities as you'll see): 1) The December 1997 issue of the Official UK Nintendo Magazine (which had close ties with Rare and NoE), detailing Diddy Kong Racing on page 31, states that Diddy is DK's son, which is not only an artefect of when he was conceived as Donkey Kong Jr., but looks like the earliest suggestion anywhere that they are related, 2) as mentioned on the other talk page, the original Japanese release of Super Smash Bros. (1999) does not make this statement, indicating a mistranslation in the English version inadvertently spawned the nephew story in the first place, and Donkey Kong 64's own instruction booklet, on page 7, turns it into the phrase "nephew wannabe" (note the extra keyword modifies the whole context), suggesting this was hastily written out of being a blood relation before it took off, 3) the official Prima-licensed guide for the Game Boy Advance version of Donkey Kong Country, on page 12, refers to them as cousins. Among these and more, consider this: not only does there not exist any official pre- or post-1999/N64-era sources stating or hinting at the nephew relation, but one episode of Donkey Kong Country's cartoon adaptation, originally released as early as September 25, 1996, has Cranky Kong state plainly: "Donkey Kong doesn't have a nephew." Basically, it was outright deconfirmed or contradicted multiple times in the franchise to varying degrees, to the point where those isolated instances become outnumbered. In summary, DK and Diddy have been consistently characterized as close buddies since day one (just play any game, or if you can't, flip through online text dumps, official manual/magazine/guide scans, etc); any further relations beyond that have been fully one-off, confusing additions to the character description that was barely established in late 90's material (nephew patricularly being sandwiched between two other similarly shortlived attempts and only appearing circa 1999) and entirely vanished sometime after the Microsoft buy-out in the early 2000's. I urge to either leave it as a footnote of the character article where it belongs, or if it must, contain it somewhere in the Donkey Kong 64 article, which would be the only possible game that this is even somewhat applicable. It absolutely has no business elsewhere, lest Wikipedia is fine going back to its misinformative dark days where Peach and Daisy are cousins and Wario and Waluigi are brothers. And Joebro? Be a steward, not an owner. Appreciated. DdipHere (talk) 15:28, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

You (don't try to pretend you're not Metalsonic89) left a massive wall of text on my talk page that was absolutely nothing but fannish original research. Rare themselves said that Diddy Kong is Donkey Kong's nephew, reliable sources verify this claim, and Wikipedia is about verifiability, not truth. And the Gregg Mayles interview I referred to was the GameXplain one, the only one present in the article at the time that said Mayles' name in the title. From what I recall, he mentions that DK and Diddy were intended to be family members and specifically says Diddy was DK's nephew at one point. It's been a while since I've watched the interview so I'm just going off of what I remember, and I could be misremembering, but that's beside the point. The interview isn't even in the article anymore so it's irrelevant. I had many things going on at that time so I felt no need to reply to pure, unadulterated fanboy silliness. Also the fact you're claiming that me providing multiple reliable sources (including ultra-reliable ones like USA Today) in support of my view is "gaslighting" is fucking hilarious, thank you for making my day. Knock it off. It's one word about fucking video game characters, there are far better and more productive things you could be doing on this site. JOEBRO64 15:42, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

The 1997 Nintendo magazine thing is obviously an error. The DKC cartoon is not in any way canonical. The fact that Diddy is said to be DK's nephew but we don't know what happened to DK's brother is really not relevant, that's original research. Aside from which, this is the DKC article - if there is a continuity error in another medium or game or a change, that can be covered in a different game's article. Andre🚐 16:02, 23 September 2022 (UTC)