Talk:Don't Tell Me (Madonna song)/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Diplomat's Son (talk · contribs) 23:11, 30 October 2018 (UTC)

Only rudimentary familiar with Madonna's discography, but I've always been impressed at the level of quality writers have contributed to her articles. This should be an interesting venture, I think.

Lead

Standard lead, no issues here content-wise. Some copy editing suggestions that I will detail below.

• "Originally written [...]" to "Henry originally conceived it as [...] called "Stop", the demo was later [...]" (avoiding redundancy)
• Comma after "commercial success"
• "Billboard Hot 100. She tied with" to "Billboard Hot 100, tying her with"
• "featured Madonna" to "features Madonna"
• Omit "walkway",
• "cowboys dancing and playing on the backdrop" to "cowboys dancing and straddling horses in the backdrop"
• "in the Melbourne" to "at the Melbourne"

 Done

Background and release

The MTV News citation for the tour cancellation makes no reference of a September 1999 start date, I would change it to a more general "autumn 1999".  Done

Daily Mirror pregnancy citation makes no mention of her actually being pregnant (or even any mention of the year 1999–just that they met the year earlier) unless this is in one of the two text citations that I don't have access to. I would remove it and find a better source.  Done

• Omit the awkward "Together with him [...]" burble–which is repetitive anyways–and opt for "on the album, describing the record as consisting of [...]" instead  Done
• "different versions in CD" to "various renditions on CD"  Done
• Next few lines use "gave" and "giving" too much, would reword or at least use different terms for variety.  Done

Recording and composition

Pretty interesting development here.

• "Henry as" to "Henry is credited as"  Done
• Add hyphen to "tango-styled"  Done
• Add "it was eventually included"  Done
• "keyboard arrangement" to "keyboard composition" keyboard composition  Done
• "guitar in which" to "guitar to which"  Done
• I don't have access to the Sischy reference here but I'm assuming this is what this sentence means; clarified: "Madonna urges her lover in the song to stop controlling her actions and feelings; she compares the lyrics to the work of Frank Sinatra."  Done

Critical response

Not many copy edit changes needed here, but come content issues: Louis Virtel → I don't understand this portion. Whoever originally added this bit got Virtel's interpretation wrong. Needs to be fixed. Done

• "had felt had" to "felt that"  Done

Cinquemani, GHV2 → these sentences make it sound like the writer had a negative impression of the song, but they gave it a B+...

• Change it to "further opined that "Don't Tell Me" was perceived to be an "unlikely" follow-up to the "Music" single, with its "atypical structure and peculiar lyrics [...] [that] made it an unlikely hit to boot. But a hit is exactly what it was [...]", awarding the track a B+". Done
• "Ranking Of" to "Ranking of"  Done
• "Negative review" to "A negative review"  Done

Chart performance

Pretty good! Data like this is usually straightforward and easily sourced.

• "chart 14 weeks" to "chart for 14 weeks" → this needs a source. I know it would be on the next Billboard chart history citation, but it seems that the song entry has been deleted.

The song is mentioned on the source; is number 14 of 63; you have to click on it to open up the window. --Chrishm21 (talk) 22:22, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

• "at that time" to "at the time"  Done

Music video

No complaints here, in either subsections.

• "feeling" to "perceiving"  Done

Madonna's Drowned Worlds → I have some doubts about this section, but again, no access to said reference. The language here frames the quoted passages in a more negative slant that I can't verify myself.

What do you mean about this? Can you be more specific?

• "portrayal of the Western" to "portrayal of Western"  Done
• Clarified: "Herzog also noted Madonna's indifference towards the cowboys as well as the audience." (it must be interesting enough for them to note it, right?)
  • I removed this section as, like you said, it adds nothing of relevance. If you believe it should be re-added or rewritten, please let me know--Chrishm21 (talk) 21:35, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
• Omit the "Traditionally the male gaze [...]" bit and instead: "The video inverts the traditional male gaze by directing it onto the fallen cowboy at the end—"  Done

I'd also suggest that the analysis sections above could be pared down more.

Care to elaborate? 😅 --Chrishm21 (talk) 21:35, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

Live performances

All good here! Article looks well-sourced and well-written after this point. I'd suggest to retrieve archived copies of the chart references.

Conclusion

The article was an intriguing read, as predicted, and would constitute an easy pass I think. I'll put it on hold to clear up the issues above. All in all, nice work! This took one and a half listens of the Music album. diplomat’s son 23:11, 30 October 2018 (UTC)

Further GAC-centric comments: Prose is succinct, and goes in-depth where necessary. In the first few sections where the sources are more paraphrased, contributors have extracted the necessary information without pulling the fat. Have suggested changes above to make passages more clear. Good use of media. No evidence of edit warring and article is neutral; checked references and all are reputable. diplomat’s son (talk) 00:47, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for the review, Diplomat's Son! I have corrected most of the stuff you pointed out, I just have a question regarding some of the stuff of the "Analysis" part of the "Music video" section that I'm hoping you can clarify so I can fix. --Chrishm21 (talk) 22:24, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

Nice work, Chrishm21! In regards to that particular section, I meant that the analyses could be summarized a bit further. In Can't Get You Out of My Head, they were able to get their points across in one succinct paragraph (the Beyoncé comparison), whereas it's two lengthy ones here. I was thinking that some of its more specific tidbits could be omitted. Hopefully that clears it up! diplomat’s son (talk+contrib) 01:16, 4 November 2018 (UTC)

Hey Diplomat's Son! I summarized that section the best I could - give it a look and say if it's OK. I look forward to your comments and/or the outcome. Thank you! --Chrishm21 (talk) 19:31, 4 November 2018 (UTC)

I think you have done a marvellous job Chrishm21. —IB ^{[ Poke ]} 19:37, 4 November 2018 (UTC)

Hey @Diplomat's Son: let us know if the changes look good to you? —IB ^{[ Poke ]} 12:19, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

Question

@IndianBio: I can pick this review up now that I am more active on here if that is okay with you? I just would like to make sure before I post a review. Aoba47 (talk) 02:51, 26 December 2018 (UTC)

Comments from Aoba47

• For this sentence (Henry originally conceived it as a tango-styled torch song called "Stop", the demo was later sent to Madonna, who then proceeded to change its musical composition, turning it into a country-dance song.), I believe the comma after “Stop” should either be a semi-colon or a period as they are separate sentences. You should also add a transition word there if you would prefer to keep the comma.
• For this sentence (Lyrically, "Don't Tell Me" finds Madonna asking her lover not to control her.), something about “finds” sounds weird in this context, at least to me. I think it would be better just to straight forward and say “is about” or some sort of variation of that.
• I have been told in some FACs that the link to “music critics” is not necessary. I have received encouragement to use it though in some GANs so this is up to you. I just wanted to let you know there is some back-and-forth regarding that.
• I am uncertain if the wikilink for “treadmill” is needed.
• I would update this sentence (Two years later, she performed the song at the Melbourne concert of her Madonna: Tears of a Clown show.), as the article on the Tears of a Clown show indicate that she also performed the song at the Miami concert as well.
• I am uncertain if it matters or not, but do you think that the format parameter in the infobox should be alphabetized (i.e. numbers first and then the rest)?
• Please wikilink Madonna upon her first mention in the body of the article (i.e. the following sentence: After the critical and commercial success of her seventh studio album, Ray of Light (1998), Madonna had intended to embark on a concert tour in autumn 1999).
• I do not believe the wikilink for “DJ” is needed.
• For this part (Following the success of the lead single, "Music"), I would clarify whether it was a commercial or a critical success or both.
• The wikilink for ”AllMusic” should be in the first section rather than further down in the article as items should be linked on their first use.
• How is the image of Madonna performing the song during the Re-Invention World Tour appropriate/relevant to the “Chart performance” section? It seems rather random to me.
• I have a question for this part (On January 29, 2014, Madonna made a surprise appearance at singer Miley Cyrus' first MTV Unplugged concert). Has Cyrus done other Unplugged concerts since? I do not think so, but I have not kept up with it.
• I would add to the “Live performances” section that she also performed this at the Miami stop of the Tears of a Clown show.

Here are some of my suggestions. I hope they are helpful! Aoba47 (talk) 20:39, 27 December 2018 (UTC)

Hi Aoba, thanks for picking this up. Sorry was away on vacation and now that I am back, will respond to the comments raised :) —IB ^{[ Poke ]} 19:35, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

Hello @Aoba47:, I have done some of the suggestions you posted, I didn't wikilink Madonna upon her first mention in the body of the article (the following sentence: After the critical and commercial success...) as she's already linked on the single's infobox. I look forward to your comments.--Chrishm21 (talk) 22:57, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

@Chrishm21:@IndianBio: Thank you for the responses. Everything has been addressed, and the article looks good to me. I am not sure if I can pass it since I am not the original GAN reviewer, but it looks ready for promotion for me. Aoba47 (talk) 02:13, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

Hi @Aoba47:, since you have taken over the GAN, you can pass/fail it based on the addressing of the comments. Maybe just leave a note in the WT:GAN and then see. —IB ^{[ Poke ]} 09:31, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

• Thank you for the message. That makes sense to me. I will read through the article one more time today, and then mostly likely pass it. Hope you are having a great year so far! Aoba47 (talk) 21:58, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

Everything looks good to me. I will ✓ Pass this now. Aoba47 (talk) 03:22, 3 January 2019 (UTC)