Talk:Dominik Hašek/Archive 1

Comment

I think the first paragraph contains some questionable statements about Hasek's rank in hockey history. While he is definitely the most successful European goalie to ever play in the NHL, Vladislav Tretiak trumps him easily in international achievements. And "arguably the top athlete to ever play the position" comes across as overstated POV. One of the very best for sure, but the best? By what definition? 84.180.31.139 07:45, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

About Vladislav, HE'S a coach!

Diacritics

There is a discussion here about whether to use diacritics in names of hockey players. This page on Hasek is a perfect example as to why we need an agreement on their usage: the three quarters of the article used the diacritics but the last quarter didn't. Also, far more pages link to the non-diacritic name than the diacritic name. Masterhatch 03:08, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

What does the fact that somebody plays hockey have to do with their name? We keep Jaroslav Hašek, who has the same last name as Dominik, at his proper name. Why would we treat Dominik differently? Zocky | picture popups 03:32, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Masterhatch moved this page from Dominik Hašek, the one with a diacritic mark, to Dominik Hasek. Note that all the other interwiki links in other languages that use the Latin alphabet feature the correct diacritic in his name, regardless of the local language. Why should English Wikipedia be an exception? It seems people can write "Dominik Hasek" in other articles if they insist, but why is it necessary to move the player page from the correct spelling "Dominik Hašek" to the incorrect only because this is a hockey player (playing in North America)? This is capricious and should not happen. -- Mareklug ^talk 13:51, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

I would keep it at it's original spot. It should be spelled correctly - with the appropriate redirect of course. Celcius 19:27, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

From Diacritic: "Modern English does not have diacritics." The vast majority of native English speakers have no idea what they are or how to pronounce them. Unless wikipedia is meant to be exclusively for linguistics majors and ESL speakers, I see no reason for them to be used. After all, we don't spell Russian names in Russian or Chinese names in Mandarin simply because it's "the proper spelling".--John Connor 06:33, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Rewrite

This article needs a revision to make it more linear. Hasek's trade to the Wings, for example, is detailed in three ways three non-consecutive times. --zenohockey 00:19, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Don't remove pics!!!!

Like what the title said, PLEASE DON'T DELETE THEM!!! I spend a while figuring out what to do to get them on wikipedia and I want pictures for showing more of Hasek to people!(same goes with other NHLers.) If you do, I'll keep getting back to the previous page with the pics. Besides, No pictures makes it boring-Italic textHasekrules- —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hasekrules (talk • contribs) 00:01, July 18, 2006

Hello. I am glad you are trying to improve the articles on Wikipedia. Unfortunately, the pictures you are adding are copyrighted and not appropriiate for Wikipedia. See Wikipedia:Copyrights for further information. -- JamesTeterenko 04:09, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

However wikipedia follows copyright rules, and adding this pictures to the article is in blatent disregard for these rules (sorry) --T-rex 04:10, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Cleanup

I've marked this page for cleanup. There is sufficient information, but there are several confusing statements, the article is written in an unacademic tone, and it violates NPOV. It could also use a Career Statistics/International play/Awards section like Patrick Roy's article has. Wafulz 16:31, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

To clarify further on NPOV, statements like "Hasek is known as the best goalie in the world when the play is close to the net" aren't being cited, so we have no idea who is making these claims. Wafulz 16:37, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

-OK. I'll start to edit this soon to make it more smooth. I'm the person who edited his whole playing career, too, so I'll fix some stuff on it, since I'm probably the biggest Hasek fan in Canada!-anonymous. I'd also like some more "off the ice" information. You can see almost every other popular player has a 5+ line section. I created that and the style of play section too. I edited it a wee bit, but I'll edit it gradually from July 22-31, because I'm on vacation, and then I'll edit the whole article on August 1st.

Now I've revised 97% of it now. I will gradually edit little things, like other Hasek info grammar errors, etc... Hopefully it's good enough so there are no NPOV or Cleanup signs on it. Hasek is the best August 2nd, 2006 (UTC) (And yes Wafulz, I just made a chart of is awards, etc... check it out. there might be some things I left out, though.)

It's better, but it's still poorly written, academically speaking. Clean-up tag is back on...I'll work on it a bit. scsgoal31 00:35, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

I got up to 'The recent year'. That section needs some major help...and I'm sure my work on previous sections can be edited. I'm off for the night. scsgoal31 01:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Yo, it's hasek is the best user again, and I majorly edited it. If it's STILL not good, I don't think I can do any better. I put some trivia facts in to his playing career, too. I MIGHT add images if none I found aren't freakin copyrighted. Not to be rude, but I hate when you can't put images on without them bein' copyrighted. Anyway, the recent years has gotten edited to be good enough. Hasek is the best 11:18 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Hasek is the best, please read your User talk page (click here for link). There is important information there for you, especially regarding this article and its tags. --Muéro 02:38, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Uploading Images

I know this isn't the right section for this, but how do you know if a pic is not copyrighted??? because I'd really like to put images on this article, because I got a lot of pics.-thanks- (I will upload them by August first if I get how to.)

If you just found them on the web, then they are probably copyrighted. Check out WP:IUP and Wikipedia talk:Image use policy for more details. ccwaters 15:50, 22 July 2006 (UTC

But what I'm saying is that is there any WAY of knowing they're copyrighted? Cuz I see Internet Images, like the Dominik Hasek pic, etc.

Always assume they are copyrighted unless the page says otherwise. If the page has a copyright notice or something, look there and try to find the relevant wording. Check the Wikipedia links above, also, for a more official word. But unless you know, for a fact, it is NOT copyrighted or that use is allowed here -- and you can prove it with a copyright notice -- then do not upload it. --SuperNova |T|C| 04:57, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Somebody put images on Hasek's page!

I'm gettin tired of tryin to put pics on Hasek's page, but if it wasn't for thst stupid copyrighted and 'unlicesened' things that always gets in my way, how about somebody put some images on other than me! Please??? I'm not the expert at this. Just go to google, get some pics, then figure out how to keep it on the page!~thanks~ hasek is the best 2:33pm 3 August 2006

I appreciate your effort, but it's not that simple. Few, if any, of the pictures on Google would be non-copyrighted. The best way to keep a picture on the page is to take the photograph yourself. And that's why there aren't many photos of NHL stars on Wikipedia. -Joshuapaquin 20:45, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

'Kay, but remember the Hasek pic that was on before? now it's gone. Why? I know some1 edited it, but why did he take it off???-hasek is the best 9:43, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Copyrights is why. We don't own the photos- the photographers do. Unless the photographer gives us explicit permission to use the photo, we're not allowed to. It's illegal. Wafulz 02:28, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Playoff statistics table

I made the statistics tables (I can't believe they weren't already done), and I have a question about the playoff table. I've noticed on other players pages that if their team did not make the playoffs, the table has dashes (-) in all of the positions for that year. But for this page, I wasn't sure what to do for the 2003-04 and 2005-06 seasons. Both times, Hašek's team made the playoffs, but he did not play. So should the table values be zeros or dashes? It doesn't really matter to me; I am just looking for other's input so it can be "correct." --Muéro 02:53, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

We're focusing on the player's statistics, so zero games == zero statistics --

Wafulz 03:09, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

The reason why no one put stats on wuz cuz no one either knew how to do it, or were to lazy to. As you can c, it's lengthy and time consuming. Thanks for it, it's helpful cuz I don't need stats everywhere in Hasek's playing career. hasek is the best 00:07 3 august 2006 (UTC)

NPOV

Careful with some of the wording in the article. For example, who labelled Patrick Roy as Dominik Hasek's "arch-nemesis"? Unless the media or Hasek made such comments, personal commentary like that is not permitted. --Madchester 03:02, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

I copyedited the article a bit- I think they were referring to the Avalanche being Detroit's arch-nemesis, which is pretty well-founded. --Wafulz 03:08, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Please stop deleting information

To some people, some don't like little details in the article. However, I'd like to have ALL details from be4, so the article has for info. for example: Trivia, NHL beginnings, the recent years, and style of play sections have a lot of info out. Because of this, I will put back the article from earlier today. Sorry to the people who edited before. However I WILL include info added.~thanks~ hasek is the best 11:52pm 2 August 2006

Unfortunately, your info will not stay no matter how many times you re-add it. It's poorly written, it's POV, and it's not sourced. You need to have a better grasp of the English language and the rules of Wikipedia before you can continue. Look around, read some articles on WP:MOS and WP:NPOV, you'll get it sooner or later. scsgoal31 04:19, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

This magazine article that he posted earlier is a decent source for some stuff. We might finally be able to clean things up. --Wafulz 16:10, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

At the same time we now have copyvio issues =/

"When the victorious team returned home, the whole country staged a rousing welcome for them in Prague. People shouted "Hašek na Hrad!" paraphrasing the popular 1989 slogan "Havel na Hrad!" which called for the then dissident Vaclav Havel to inhabit the traditional seat of Czech presidents, the Prague Castle. Even Havel himself was heard saying "Dominik - would you like to succeed me as president?" The wax museum in Prague displays a statue of Hasek wearing the Czech national jersey. "

compared to

When the victorious team returned home, the whole country staged a rousing welcome for them. Jubilant crowds turned central Prague into a massive street party and hailed the national team's historic Olympic gold medal. An unknown fan coined the phrase "Hasek is not a man, Hasek is God" which then became an unofficial motto of the celebrations. People also shouted "Hasek na Hrad!" paraphrasing the popular 1989 slogan "Havel na Hrad!" which called for the then dissident Vaclav Havel to inhabit the traditional seat of Czech presidents, the Prague Castle. Even Havel himself was heard to say "Dominik - would you like to succeed me as president?" In the country where ice hockey is a national passion, young and old embraced and sang "We are the champions".

It needs to just all come off, but I can't edit this page anymore due to 3RR. It's all copyvio problems, and the 20 lines of quoted material that Hasek spoke about returning to Detroit is just unnecessary. scsgoal31 16:20, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, in Wikipedia, Wikipedia wants us to include much info as possible. This is important. You could get blocked. hasek is the best

You have the purpose of Wikipedia confused. We don't want "as much info as possible." We want good, reliable, SOURCED, unbiased information that is appropriate for an encylopedia. Big difference scsgoal31 16:38, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

That's sort of what I meant. That IS sourced. You find it everywhere on the net. It's good enough to put on. Not biased, far away from it, and is appropriate. hasek is the best

Wayne Gretzky statement

the gretzky statement IS sourced by a magazine. SO DON'T DELETE THE STATEMENT!!!!-hasek is the best

Then give us the source --Wafulz 16:20, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

I'ts on a hockey magazine named, "The Hockey News" and, I can't LITERALLY give u the source. what do ya mean???

Give me the exact quote, the name of the article, the author, the issue number (date, year, etc), editor, publisher, etc. This is how we source things- you'll discover the joys in high school soon enough. See Wikipedia:Citing_sources for more. Unfortunately, because you directly copied text from another article, this really puts a lot of other content in jeopardy. --Wafulz 16:37, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

This is all I know: in was in '98, and said: "I think he is the best player in the game. He's just at a level that nobody is at right now. He's simply sensational." I got this from a NHL Hockey 2002-03 book. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Hasek is the best (talk • contribs) .

I can't find that exact quote anywhere on the internet, although you said in the above section that it's everywhere. scsgoal31 17:07, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Do you actually have the source itself though? We can't base it off your memory. --Wafulz 17:05, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

I searched for the quote provided by hasek is best, but came up empty. The first few matches were pertaining to football, for some odd reason. --Madchester 18:05, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

This article from CNN/SI states "The rest of the goaltenders had their problems, including Buffalo's Dominik Hasek, called the best player in the NHL by Gretzky." So now I'm starting to believe he did say it, but we still need a good source. --Muéro 18:21, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

The point is that I found it in an NHL book, that had the comment from the hockey news magazine. Wafulz, that wasn't off my memory. I HAVE THE book with me as I write.-hasek is the best 3 August (UTC) (Just to tell you, I'm no expert at this stuff, cause I'm only 11.) I WILL put the statement on the article.

You have been warned multiple times by multiple users. Stop adding copyrighted, as well as non sourced, information to this article. Just because you saw it written somewhere does not make it sourced. We need the author and the issue that the exact quote was written in. scsgoal31 22:41, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Geez, you need "sources" every sentence! Ick! As I said, i'm only 11!-hasek is the best

Ok... So what's the title, author of this book? What page? ccwaters 01:40, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Ya mean the book? It's named "NHL hockey 2002-03 an official fans guide", made by John MacKinnon & John McDermott. Hasek is the best 02:15, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Page? ccwaters 11:23, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Oh yeah. Page 85 Hasek is the best 15:35, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Can anyone verify that? Thanks ccwaters 17:32, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Do u REALLY need to verify that??? I have the book with me now. I swear to God that it's on page 85. Geez. Enough said, lemme put the statement on! Let's just go on with our lives and just put it on so we can forget about this. Hasek is the best 18:09, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Go ahead, but its kind of strange that just last night you said it was in The Hockey News. ccwaters 18:12, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, but it was in the hockey news, but they put it the quote in the book. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Hasek is the best (talk • contribs) .

[1] ccwaters 18:34, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

What's the direct quote you are reading? ccwaters 18:41, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

It's above. Wayne said:"I think he is the best player in the game. He's just at a level that nobody is at right now. He's simply sensational." Hasek is the best 19:55, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Copyright violations

Dominik's style is described as very unorthodox. Thanks to his litheness and extremely loose-joints, Dominik was able to perform unbelievable stunts on the ice. Among his strengths are excellent concentration and tremendous foot speed. He is unflappable and always prepared. But isn't he afraid he'll miss the swish of the puck now he's retired? is also from another copyright article. How of this did you copy paste? --Wafulz 16:20, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Sources

Seems our young friend left this in the external links. It has a section called "WHAT OTHERS ARE SAYING" which has a metric assload of sources that we can use. --Wafulz 20:51, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Do you mean in a good way? Anyway, that's ME. That page was easy 2 find. Hasek is the best 23:48, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Well done

Well done team! This article is, as a colleague would say, metric assloads better than it was just a few nights ago. I'd be willing to take off both the NPOV and Cleanup tags if you agree with me. That way people aren't coming to this article looking to clean up what we, for the most part, have already taken care of. The article could still use more citations, as is the case with any Wiki article. Agreed? scsgoal31 22:00, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

For fun, this is the comparison between August 1st and today. Yikes! scsgoal31 22:03, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Although the article does need sources, I agree that it is now good enough to remove the NPOV and Cleanup tags. --Muéro 22:27, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

He played in the Canada Cup in 1984 and 1991, and played in the World Junior Championship in the 1988 Olympics in Calgary, Alberta. In 1991, he had a 1-4 record.

In the 1998 Olympic games, Hašek posted a 0.97 GAA. He was brilliant that year, letting in 3 goals at the most against Team Canada in a 4-3 shootout win. At the 1998 Winter Olympics, Hašek led the Czech team to the gold medal, desposing of Russia in a 1-0 shutout of the Russian team for the gold. He finished the tournament with a GAA of 0.97. He had a winning record of 5-1.

I think statements like these mean we're not done yet.... --Wafulz 01:30, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

International stats

I found this Sportsnet page which has his international play stats, plus international awards we haven't already listed. I can try to make a table tomorrow if I have some time. --Wafulz 01:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

I already put up the Olympics stats. Yes, it was hard, especially figuring out the GAA and SV PCT%. There are other International stats, but not qualified as the olympics. So I'll make a chart of that. I'm talking about Dukla Jihlava, and HC Pardubice. Hasek is the best 21:00, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

The international stats sections are meant for international competitions like the Olympics and World Championships. ccwaters 23:41, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Should we take off the citing message by now?

Maybe we should take off the citing message. The only one here with a citation needed thing is the 1st one in the trivia section. Should we delete it? 24.57.136.32 18:16, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Removed. Just a week ago, there were no references whatsoever! --Madchester 03:07, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

2000 retirement/hobbies

I've removed the sentence about Hasek wanting to retire because it literally makes no sense. Just post the source for it; your sentences are very confusing and I don't even know what you're trying to say. Also, we don't need an in-depth view at his hobbies and stretching- it's really not that important. --Wafulz 23:17, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Oh. Sorry, cause I found this page on the web of this kid who said hasek was going to retire because of constant autographs and his children's education. But he never did, so I thought I just say that he changed his mind. I'm trying to find the page where it says. When I find it (hopefully), I'll see what we'll do. I think it makes sense. And for the in-depth view, thingy, I think people would wonder out of curosity, like "gee, I wonder if hasek stretches a lot, cause he keeps getting injured" or that stuff, but oh, well. No point if someone going to delete it anyway. oh yeah, you must have this on your watch list, cause you come here a lot whenever there is a change to this page. You must be on the computer a lot, huh Wafulz? (Ha.)-- Hasek is the best 23:28, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm a university student, which means I'm permanently chained to my desk at least five nights a week. --Wafulz 23:49, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, I couldn't find the page. I know it's there somewhere, but it's just taking too long. Oh, well. Hasek is the best 02:00, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Now i'VE FOUND THE PAGE! (A little late.) It wasn't the exact page as the one I was talking about, but it's close enough. I found it on lycos.com. Maybe this can have PROOF he was going to retire. We'll see what we'll do. Hasek is the best 19:24, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

This is the actual page. Kudos on finding a decent source for the information- there's also a few other bits of information we can use. Anyway, I'm about to sign off so maybe I'll see what else we can do with it tomorrow. --Wafulz 04:19, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Sure. Hasek is the best 22:04, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Alright, it's been added in with the reference <ref name="wp retire"/>. Again, nice job finding the source. --Wafulz 03:35, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Cool. I was actually finding pictures of him (he's, yes, my favourite player) then it showed me the pic and the page it came from, then I saw the page for that he was going to retire. Hasek is the best 21:12, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Was hasek selected 199th overall, or 207th?

Many sources say hasek was drafted 199th overall, but others say 207th. Most sources I read, like [2] say he was selected 199th. Can anyone really clarify? It's tricky to tell. What do you think? I'd say 199. But then there's [3] that say he was drafted 207! If you say which one, it's good to include proof. Hasek is the best 04:34, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Every source other than Legends of Hockey says 199 (including NHL.com) so I've changed it to 199.--Wafulz 14:07, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

about the asteroid thing...

Shouldn't the asteroid thing be in another section? Or is it cause of him winning the gold that he was named the asteroid? Hasek is the best 04:48, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

From the reference:

Named in honor of Dominik Hasek (b. 1965), goalkeeper, and the Czech Olympic hockey team, winners of the gold medal at the 1998 Winter Olympic Games in Nagano.--Wafulz 14:07, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

This trophy

[4] shows Hasek won the Hanrahan trophy, but is not in Wikipedia nor mentoned anywhere. Should it be a article and should it be put into hasek's article? It sas he the winner. Maybe it's a different name for Vezina trophy??? Hasek is the best 19:34, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

No, this is from a computer simulation. In other words, it's not a real trophy. --Wafulz 19:38, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Cite the punch line for offthemark

Maybe we should cite the off the mark statement, which says: "On November 26, 2006, Mark Parisi's comic panel off the mark[18] featured a punch line about Hašek's childhood." Also how about a link? (To tell the truth, I'd like to know what it says.) So whoever put it on, please give a source/link if you have one. ~Thanks~ Hasek is the best 01:57, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

The cartoons are on http://www.offthemark.com/daily.php . They're on a one week delay though, so we can't see it til December 3rd. --Wafulz 02:34, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Okay. Hasek is the best 03:54, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Here it is. --Wafulz 20:40, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

'OK..., that was, well, funny, but sort of strange...interesting. (Yeah, as if that actually happened...) Thanks for getting it.Hasek is the best 04:03, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

This Picture on Wikipedia

Hey, just to let you guys know, there's a picture on this article (Vezina Trophy)that is non-copyrighted (at least what I think). It shows Hasek with the Vezina and Hart trophies. Should we put it on? We might as well; I mean, why not? just assuring if we can. Hasek is the best 21:57, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

It's a copyrighted publicity photo, but seems to meet fair use guidelines. If it can appear at Vezina Trophy, we can probably use it on this article. Good catch. -Joshuapaquin 22:09, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

'Kay. Hasek is the best 22:26, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Article title and content

I think the article should be moved to Dominik Hasek (without the accent) per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English). Right now, nobody in the media or the NHL spells his name as "Hašek"- it's always "Hasek" --Wafulz 23:59, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Hey, that's true. We should. It's frustrating to always get the letter on the box below the editing box every time we write his name. Hasek is the best 04:00, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

This pic on Czech version of Wikipedia

Hey, there's this pic on the czech version of Wikipedia of Hasek with the Cup. Since it's on there, should we add it? I tried, but for some reason it won't let me, so I uploaded the same pic onto the article. Sorry if it's copyrighted or something, but I doubt it because if it's on Czech just fine, why not english? See here. Hasek is the best 04:04, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes we can use it, but the image almost got speedily deleted because the copyright was not specified. I've put a hold-on tag on it for the moment. It looks like the image could be used here, but we'd need someone who understands what the Czech tag means (I don't know if it's Fair Use or public domain). --Wafulz 04:14, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I can't read it either. I found this. It could have something to do with this...I'm not so sure. Here's where it's found at: [5]. We need someone who understands...Hasek is the best 04:24, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Okay... I found this user who speaks czech fluently... Maybe he'll translate it for us. I told him to put it on my talk page. So tomorrow, hopefully we can understand what it says...If he doesn't know (for some odd reason), I'll simply ask someone else tomorrow. I have to get some sleep now...Hasek is the best 04:36, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Okay...I found his response and it said: "It is info about copyright, that photo is copyrighted, but permission for wikipedia use was granted. I afraid is a kind of unfree licence." --User:Jklamo Well, I noticed the pic is off the article but I couldn't find it in the history section of it being deleted. Well, it was probably deleted automatically. Oh, well. So can we put it back on, or is it deleted (for maybe speedy deletion, copyrighted, or not fair use)? Hasek is the best 21:30, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

No, it looks like we can't use it- we need a copyright status that would allow people other than Wikipedia to use it. The whole idea is that Wikipedia is copied to lots and lots of different websites and CDs, so the person who owns the copyright to the image would have to let us use it on other websites and CDs and for possible commercial use. --Wafulz 21:33, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Huh...okay then. I'll delete the image box. But shouldn't the Czech page's image be deleted, too? (It's the exat same).Hasek is the best 21:37, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, it should be actually. I think it's because the image might be too old to delete (ie it was uploaded before the policy became active). --Wafulz 23:38, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was No move. Duja► 09:48, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

---

Dominik Hašek → Dominik Hasek — Nobody in the English-speaking hockey world spells Hasek's name out as "Hašek." This includes the NHL, IIHF, and sports media such as TSN, ESPN, The Hockey News, etc. There is a margin of 731,000 to 519 from Google, with many of the "Hašek" hits being from Wikipedia and its mirrors. --Wafulz 01:02, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Survey

Add  * '''Support'''  or  * '''Oppose'''  on a new line followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~~~~.

• Support--Above-My reason is because it's annoying to always get the letter "š" from the box below the editing page. Besides, who does use the accent? Does it really matter that much? I think there's no point. And I've found no way to use accents on seaach engines, etc. (As you can see above, this has gone on for quite a while.) unless It's something like a french word, accents should be moved out unless the accent has to be there for correct pronounciation, but Hasek---there are different ways to pronounce it. Hasek is the best 03:46, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
• Strong Oppose Czech player, his name has a "š" and can only be accurately written that way. This is an encyclopedia, accuracy cannot be disregarded.--Húsönd 03:38, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Despite him being a Czech player, he is always refered to as "Hasek" in pretty much every medium. It's not any less accurate to call him that seeing as it's his name in English. Wikipedia:Naming conventions and its offshoots Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names) and Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English) seem to support using English names, particularly in cases like this where the foreign-born name is never used in the English language. --Wafulz 03:47, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

He doesn't have an English name. His correct name is "Hašek" (as verifiable). Frequent appearances as "Hasek" on English media are due to either misknowledge of the correct name, carelessness or technical limitations due to the lack of diacritics on English keyboards. Naturally such justifications do not serve for an encyclopedia. See the Czech town of České Budějovice for instance. Certainly more often referred to as "Ceske Budejovice" in English, it does not grant lack of accuracy to its article.--Húsönd 04:07, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

• Oppose per Húsönd. An encyclopedia should use the correct name instead of the diacritic-less simplification of other media. Hašek doesn't have a Czech name and a different English name: he has just one, correctly spellt Hašek and simplified as Hasek in most English-language media because of technical difficulties and disregards for accuracy. -- Evv 04:04, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

• • I again support because: everything always says 'Hasek'. TSN.ca to NHL.com, to almost all other articles of him found on the web. To my knowledge, most europeans use accents. But, english doesn't need accents- most don't. Some other articles found on Wikipedia don't use accents. Again, there are different ways to pronounce 'Hasek'. But something like "café"- it doesn't have multiple pronounciations- otherwise it'd sound like "Cafee". The point is- to the english language- do english prononce the shh? The english language, to my knowledge- don't have those accents. The "ń" can be used, but the š is not used in the english dictionaries. Sure it's a name- but english does not have to pronounce it that way. That means- english does not use accents, but say, Czech accents matter very much. Most europeans do; they pronounce it like "Hashhek". Leave the accent for the Czech type, but not english. Though his name is "Haśek"-It is optional to use. See, prononciation of Hasek is not strict. We are looking at the pronounciation of hasek- not the proper way; if it is---most don't say "shh". So it should be spelled without the accent. We could ask Jimbo Wales, just a suggestion. Hasek is the best 04:13, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
    • You're totally mistaken in your concept about diacritics in English, their pronounciation, application, etc. I recommend further investigation on the matter, and I also should remind the first pillar of Wikipedia: Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. We don't exist to promote misknowledge as to encourage readers to spell/read something wrong. You should encourage others to pronounce the name right instead of trying to have Wikipedia to abid by a mistake. Regarding Jimbo Wales, he usually leaves issues to community consensus.--Húsönd 04:38, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
      • Actually "Hasek" is a correct English spelling if the hundreds of NHL and IIHF sources are anything to go by. Jimbo Wales supports English names as well- he's been asked before. --Wafulz 05:31, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
        • Ok, this is my nth discussion about diacritics in Wikipedia and honestly I don't want to repeat myself ad nauseam. To summarize, both "Hašek" and "Hasek" have verifiable usage in English, thus complying to WP:UE. Now, if both are verifiable then we opt for the most accurate, "Hašek", which is his actual name regardless of all the NHL and IIHF sources who probably aren't even aware of the existence of "š".--Húsönd 05:41, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
• Strong Oppose. Does not need an english name. Needs an redirect without the czechmark over the s. Husond is right. This has been hashed over a million times. - crz crztalk 02:04, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

• Oppose When multiple spellings are verifiable, opt for the more accurate spelling. Further reasons given below in discussion. The editorial guidelines of other media are not necessarily those of Wikipedia. As an encyclopedia, the demands for accurpinion using ~~~~.

• Support--Above-My reason is because it's annoying to always get the letter "š" from the box below the editing page. Besides, who does use the accent? Does it really matter that much? I think there's no point. And I've found no way to use accents on seaach engines, etc. (As you can see above, this has gone on for quite a while.) unless It's something like a french word, accents should be moved out unless the accent ber 2006 (UTC)
• Oppose - per above; the s is close enough in both languages to recognize (unlike Japanese characters). Patstuart^talk|edits 01:18, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
• Oppose as per Bendono. Olessi 20:14, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
• Strongly oppose. Or let's move Charlotte Brontë to Charlotte Bronte or John C. Frémont to John C. Fremont. Švitrigaila 18:31, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
• Geez, let's change it! Look at 'Eric Daze'. I guess I'll rename it 'Eric Dázé'. I don't think so. Or how 'bout Tomas Kaberle to 'Tomáš Kaberlé'. Hasek is the best 04:56, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
• Oppose per Ew. Would you want diacritics added to your name if you moved to another country? --Muéro^(talk/c) 05:11, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

Discussion

Add any additional comments:

I agree with Húsönd. I too have had this conversation way too many times so can sympathizes. When multiple spellings exists and are verifiable, opt for the most accurate. Redirects can (and should) be used to direct readers who may use alternative spellings. WP:UE is open to interpretation when it comes to names. See for instance the WP:UE#Disputed_issues section. It does not make it any more or less English with or without the diacritics.

English is written with the Latin script. There are verifiable English words which do use diacritics. A small list is here: Wiktionary:Appendix:English words with diacritics.

Popular English magazines and other media often do drop diacritics. For some it is difficult to type. Historically it was often difficult to exchange texts with "extended" characters. Some publications opt to drop diacritics entirely for consistency. I can only speculate. Here on Wikipedia we do not have these problems. The edit box includes all of the diacritics for easy selection whenever anyone edits a page. Everything is in Unicode. Redirects can be used. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia; it needs to be accurate and precise. The less accurate forms can be redirected to the more accurate.

Diacritics may help some readers may gain extra phonetic information, however it is ultimately a matter of spelling, not pronunciation. Look at the English word "knight". That extra 'k' would really make it difficult for someone to accurately pronounce the word correctly. However, it is the correct spelling and required in that context. Diacritics can easily be ignored by those who do not know what they mean. However, for those looking or expecting them, it is much more difficult to infer them from their absence.

Thus, I am generally opposed to removing diacritics. However, if there is something in particular about Dominik that warrants an exception, I am open to discussion before voting. (No need to repeat what has already been said before though.) Bendono 07:24, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

We could say on the beginnig of the article: "Dominik Hašek (also known as Dominik Hasek), is..." or "Dominik Hašek (Dominik Hasek), is...". At least that way, we can comprimise. But still, 'Hasek' is the right way- his name is always like that. For example, NHL.com lists him as "Hasek" and NHL.com is an official and an accurate site. That means, since it's the real site, it needs to be accurate because of it's importance. It's not made by this 8 year old kid. It's made by many adults that have to be accurate. --It's NHL.com, it needs to be accurate. It's the official site that again, needs to be accurate. However, if it was other languages, accents are needed because say, czechs always uses accents, that's just their way of language, I'm pretty sure. Hasek is the best 21:22, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Besides, Eric Daze, another NHLer, has the expressed "a" for the 'e', and that doesn't have any accents/characters. So, that's the same case. Hasek is the best 03:56, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.