Talk:Dolly Varden (costume)

Is Dolly Varden a hat?

The hat part of the costume is simply a Bergère hat.

We already have the Bergère catagorized in "Hats". We don't have any reason to catagorize this article as a hat also. Even if there was any difference between the Bergère hat and the hat worn with this Dolly Varden costume, there is no difference described herein. tahc ^chat 19:59, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

Yes, but it is used as a description - "Dolly Varden hat" - including in the quoted song lyric - even though there is no difference, it is still an alternative name for the style. Mabalu (talk) 20:01, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

For example: Oxford Dictionary definition,

* - Blog which quotes a primary source as saying : "And then, bathing, too, gives them the opportunity of wearing their Dolly Varden hats, what are by no means unbecoming to certain faces. Thank heaven that inexorable ruler—Fashion—has decreed the downfall of every other part of Miss Dolly Varden’s costume."

* This book even lists a Dolly Varden cap and bonnet along with the hat

* [1] Many other hits in Google Books for the description, separate from the dress - there is a consistency in that they are flat straw hats trimmed with flowers and ribbons. Mabalu (talk) 20:09, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

Even if one hat-type has multiple names, we don't do separate articles for each. So it makes no difference if a Dolly Varden hat is another name for a Bergère hat. This isn't and wouldn't be another article for the same hat.

Take for example the Uniforms of the US Marine Corps. Hats, such a peaked cap, are always part of the uniform, but the uniform is not a hat-- nor do the uniforms include any hats unique to that article/uniform-- and so the page is not catagorized under "hat". This is also the case with the Baseball uniform, Grenadier, and many others.tahc ^chat 01:44, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

I'm confused now. What point are you making here? That there shouldn't be a Hat category on the article? Seems pretty obvious from the sources that such a category is valid and legit, even if the actual hat is like another hat that has another name. In fact, if you are saying it IS exactly the same hat, is that conclusion not original research? I think saying it is "very like" this other style of hat is valid, but doesn't claim it is exactly the same style - even though I personally think it IS very close as makes arguably little difference. However, I see a difference between a bergere hat and some of the hats described as Dolly Varden (the bergeres are stiffer and have more body to the brims, being able to be worn with the brims turned up and down, etc, while the Dolly Varden hats often seem (and are described as being) much more floppy - "flip-flop" indeed. Mabalu (talk) 02:46, 11 November 2013 (UTC)