Talk:Dialectical behavior therapy/Archive 1

Name of article

Should we be keeping this her or rename it Dialectical Behavioral Therapy? I'd vote to move it; though most just refer to this as "DBT", whenever it's referred to in full, it's behaviorAL, to match "Behavioral Health". siafu20:45, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)

We should move it to be under its proper name, and have this name re-direct to it. I don't know how to do that, but I'll figure it out ... Scot ^→Talk 19:58, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Dialectical Behavioral Therapy or Dialectical behavioral therapy? The second is correct per WP:MOS unless there is a reason for the caps. You should be able to move to either now, and set redirects as desired.KillerChihuahua^?!? 14:19, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Current capitalisation seems fine. —Nightstallion(?) ^{Seen this already?}07:58, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

The correct name is Dialectical Behavior Therapy, not Dialectical Behavioral Therapy. This is how Linehan refers to it. Seehttp://faculty.washington.edu/linehan/ 20:40, 14 October 2006

With reference to the possible deletion, i'd have thought that its prevelance within the NHS alone marks it as worthy of an entry- with a bit more time i can collect some references to support this (Hampshire NHS would be a good starting point)

I'm kind of shocked that this entry would be up for deletion. It's used all over the place. I doubt youd run into a therapist who isn't familiar with what it is. i found this article useful for learning what it was before I started doing it and I'd hate to see it gone for other people to not be able to use Lyo 15:29, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Apparently whoever added the template didn't bother to investigate the matter at all. Asimple search on Amazon.com yields 246 books with DBT in the title. Having not read them, I can't add them as refs, but it should be obvious that this is a notable topic. siafu 15:40, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

This article bears importance in that DBT is becoming the preferred treatment model for Borderline personality disorder and is also proving effective in treating many other disorders including eating disorders. To delete it would be wrong. Almost any article you might find on Borderline personality disorder that was written recently at least mentions DBT and people need to know what it is.

Jargon / Pedantry / Overly Technical Language

I found this article looking to learn more about DBT and found some bits that are particularly loaded with jargonistic language. For example, parsing the sentence: "Arguably her signal contribution was to elide the adversarial paradigm implicit in the hierarchical modernist therapeutic alliance, using the deconstructive spirit of Hegel and the Buddha to substitute a postmodern alliance based on intersubjective tough love" took just about all my faculties as an English major. Seems like it could be re-written in a much clearer form by someone who was more familiar with the issue than I. I'll add the "Jargon" tag for now, though the "technical" tag might be just as appropriate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lenordbater (talk • contribs) 18:50, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Yeah... I got to that same line and thought, jeesh! this putz writes like he or she is trying to impress a professor, not transmit useful information. Gawd. Up the academy or something. Pretentious boobs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by99.35.14.147 (talk) 14:13, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

I find the use of jargon makes much of the content anecdotal. The jargon is used in such a particular manner as to be unintelligible to anyone but the author or those already sufficiently familiar with the subject to be able to "decode" them. Many statements are made that are disguised by this use of jargon and also by extensive "name-dropping". The name-droping e.g. to Buddhism, Hegel, Thich Nhat Hanh and others is simply an attempt to provide incomplete references which because are both impossible to trace and may well not sustain the statements concerned. This is made more probable by the fact that some claims are palpably nonsensical e.g. "All DBT involves two components ... the grop whic meets". If this statement is true then the fact that DBT is a group therapy should be stated in the first line of the article.

82.27.185.43 (talk) 23:34, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

I agree that I have no idea what intersubjective tough love is. Can that portion be deleted?

     I agree that the lead section is too obfuscated. The document “Cognitive behavior therapy in a nutshell” currently cited as a reference and coauthored by Linehan herself is a lot clearer.
     From the article and that document, I think the sentence “Arguably her signal...tough love” means something like: “DBT strives to avoid having the client/patient see the therapist as an adversary rather than an ally in the treatment of psychological issues. Accordingly, in DBT the therapist aims to accept and validate the client’s feelings at any given time while nonetheless informing the client that some feelings and behaviors are maladaptive, and showing them better alternatives.” I think this is basically just restating things that are said earlier in the lead section, but I want to add the above sentences because I think having read something like them would have helped me grasp the idea more quickly. As always if someone thinks my prose is still obfuscated, don’t hesitate to improve it.
     Also, I think the purpose of the parenthetical contrasting Carl Rogers’ and Thich Nhat Hahn’s ideas is to contrast the idea of “I accept you no matter what you're like” with “I accept how you are, but I think you could be better and I want to help make you better”. My interpretation is just based on this article and the above DBT document by Linehan; I don’t know if the sentence is a fair representation of Rogers’ and Nhat Hahn’s ideas. Wikipedia’s article about Rogers mentions only: “Additionally, Rogers is known for practicing "unconditional positive regard," which is defined as accepting a person "without negative judgment of .... [a person's] basic worth.” I didn’t find anything about unconditional acceptance in the text of the article on Nhat Hahn (not to imply he doesn’t talk about it, just that it hasn’t been written about on Wikipedia for my easy perusal).
     Riyuky (talk) 01:25, 14 January 2010 (UTC) I've taken DBT courses and can much more easily explain how it works and where it comes from. DBT does come from Buddhism and Hegel. The major Buddhist concept used in DBT is the middle way. Basically, the best way to stay on solid ground is to find the middle between two extremes. Hegel's contribution is more or less the same with his thesis/antithesis/synthesis concept. Other Buddhist concepts include mindfulness and participation/presence. The rest is based on cognitive behavioral therapy with a much greater dose of acceptance and validation strategies. And oh, the comments about the client/therapist relationship is more easily explained by saying that the therapist acts more like a guide, role model, accountability buddy, external validation source, and a mentor rather than someone hell-bent on completely changing the client. Does that make sense? I'll tell you all what, I'll see what I can do to smooth some of this stuff out as I'm a big DBT fan.--Lonejedi (talk) 17:27, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Having been through a month of outpatient DBT treatment at a psych ward, I can say that yes, it is loaded with a ridiculous amount of acronyms and jargon. Just... kinda go with it, it's how it is. Morrigi (talk) 04:27, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

graphs and logs

i was wondering if there are graphs and logs that are printable for to maintain my mood swings. it has been approximately 2 and half years since i have been in a dbt group. we had a weekly report sheet and a graph for wise mind that we kept with us. can you prvide me this information.

Within the next month I will try to get a diary card example on Wikibooks. :)68.22.19.194 17:00, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Here's a good example. http://www.dbtselfhelp.com/html/diary_card_1.html --68.22.19.194 20:00, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Mass removal

Normally I would bring my concerns here first, then remove after discussion. However, considering it's a copyvio, I removed the sections of quoted text. We can't do that. We have to write the information ourselves and cite the sources. Not just take what they've written and copy it over with a link. Lara❤Love 05:49, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Article says there are four (4) modules, then lists only three (3)

The article includes a major headline that boldly announces

"The four modules."

Since it then lists 1.1, 1.2, and 1.3 ... and stops right there.

The reader is left wondering what happened to 1.4? Will someone who knows please add 1.4 and tell us about the fourth module.

• This has been fixed. I don't know when. I was about to write the fourth. —Precedingunsigned comment added by Charmedguy18 (talk •contribs) 01:15, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Article is missing their version of "dichotomy"

Dichotomy is a dialectic of DBT that is one of the most essential parts of it. I don't know a lot about the actual Leinham book as it bores me and I'm just a patient. In DBT, dichotomy is is "all-or-nothing" or "black-or-white" thinking. For example, idealization and devaluation. Or "he's hot, or he's not," or "he's good or he's bad," or "He loves me or he hates me," etc etc. I think you get the point: dichotomy is not only a major part of DBT, but also is missing this kind of definition from the dichotomy page on Wikipedia. Charmedguy18 (talk) 06:01, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Please keep DBT in Wikipedia

This comment was moved from Talk:Dialectical behavioral therapy/Comments/skagedal^... 15:01, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Please keep DBT in Wikipedia. I have been a part of a DBT group for over 2 years although it has been disbanded now. My son was suicidal with serious self-harm at 17. Was able to do DBT through County Mental Health. Was tested to see if he qualified for it. I do know it is recommended to be sucessful in helping, a commitment of 6 months to go through Linehan's book and another 6 months to go through it again. My son had to commit to 1 year skills training, keeping a diary, meeting one on one and in a group. I also have attended "NAMI" meeting where DBT was mentioned as helping family members who were diagnosed borderline or were suicidal or self-harming. I read an article but unfortunately do not have the reference, of DBT being used in prison setting for those inmates diagnosed with borderline personality and was helpful. I have been in counseling off and on for 40 years, since first panic attack in college. No med or therapy helped me or continues to like DBT. Its 4 components of distress tolerance, mindfulness, emotion regulation, and interpersonal effectiveness are a lifestyle for creating a "life worth living". To me its premise is we can all learn "skills" to help ourselves even if we do not possess them intuitively as some might. It is full of help and compassion for self accepting where you are in level of skills and continuing to always get better and healthier. there is no end to trying to be a better person or to learn "self-soothing" skills or any lack of skills that cause pain in your life. I would be glad to help on this subject in anyway I can. I discovered this therapy in trying to help my son but has helped my diagnosis of "dysthimia" and anxiety as well as adult ADD. I am not nor never been suicidal or self-harming yet I never could shake the depression and struggled to cope with anxiety. I have been very functional as far as keeping a job but my relationships were always painful. 2 divorces. I still struggle with the 4 areas focused on in DBT but continue to work on them on my own and wish I still had a group to bounce my trials and errors off during the week. It's amazing how much help others who are learning skills can help each other. Carolejolly (talk) 01:32, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Name of article

It's a bit odd that this article is called "Dialectical behavioral therapy", when it refers to a specific therapy that is called "Dialectical behavior therapy" by its author (as discussed above on this page). I'll move it if there are no objections. /skagedal^... 15:08, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Controversy

Right now the controversy section is empty. Is there any controversy? From what I've seen supporters of DBT are still flushed with their early successes, and mindfulness is rapidly gaining acceptance as a legitimate topic for scientific study. It would be nice if someone could reference a measured criticism by a supporter of CBT, responding to DBT's criticisms. For example, I know that mindfulness and distress tolerance are implicit in many cognitive techniques, though DBT may have been the first approach to give them the attention they deserve. Inhumandecency (talk) 23:30, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

• If someone wants to re-add it with some content, by all means please do so. I'm going to remove the empty header, though, at least until we have some information to put there. --Roman à clef (talk) 21:26, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

criticism

As a individual not schooled in psychology but seeking some basic information about DBT, I found this article unreadable and impossible to understand. —Preceding unsignedcomment added by 74.170.102.73 (talk) 01:38, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Specific Skills

I don't see how anyone can get anything from a site on DBT without a description of each skill taught in skills training. I've participated in a DBT group for some time now, and been taught each skill twice around. I've put a brief description of them, my sources are under references. —Preceding unsigned comment added by ZoiiMeu (talk • contribs) 15:43, 1 April 2010 (UTC)