Talk:Deeper and Deeper

Homosexuality?!

Deeper and Deeper is about "raw homosexuality"?! I've never heard this before.....has Madonna ever confirmed this?! Paul75 (talk) 21:52, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

No. The song isn't about homosexuality. Don't bother removing it from entry, though. Someone will just come along and put it back. They always do. With every Madonna entry. Olivix (talk) 11:49, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

According to the liner notes of "GHV2," written by Dan Cadan:

"...'Deeper and Deeper,' from the same album, lowered some of the upturned noses caused by the 'Erotica' single. But they were soon raised again when they discovered that the track was about a miner coming to terms with his homosexuality, 'I can't help falling in love, I fall deeper and deeper the further I go,' he sings as he disappears deep into the dark shaft.

"The first chapter of the 1994 Bedtime Stories album was 'Secret,' a song that tackled the hard-hitting issue of transvestites. Documenting a man's sudden realization that his girlfriend is packing more than she promised as he/she shares his/her secret with him, she sings the crushing prose '...happiness lies in your own hand...' Think about it. Think harder."

"...A little known fact, is that the ethereal track 'Frozen' was originally commissioned by Haagen Dazs for a commercial, but its unearthly qualities were deemed unsuitable for ice-cream promotion."

This information should be added to the articles of the songs mentioned. Stopitplease92 (talk) 19:56, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

The "secret" in the vid at least was the boyfriend had a son. I will have to read the lyics to see if there was a hidden message in their about he-shes..--68.118.188.188 (talk) 16:34, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

Sample

Can somebody add a sample for this song, is the only Madonna song that haven't one, thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.24.20.1 (talk) 19:58, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Source for "It's considered one of Madonna's most intriguing yet least appealing music videos."

There is no source to confirm the comment "It's considered one of Madonna's most intriguing yet least appealing music videos." As far as I"m aware, it's a fan favourite from the forums I'm on. This comment should be removed as there's nothing to back this up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.71.172.115 (talk) 07:35, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

That sentence makes no sense whatsoever!--68.118.188.188 (talk) 16:35, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

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It's not Joey Stefano in the video.

There's something wrong, it's not Joey Stefano in the video od D&D, they don't even look similar, unfortunaly it was a mistake made by Joey's biographer. source--88marcus (talk) 02:18, 13 January 2018 (UTC)

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GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Deeper and Deeper/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: K. Peake (talk · contribs) 06:53, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

Good Article review progress box

Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

My first review for you in a good amount of time; let's go! --K. Peake 06:53, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

Infobox and lead

• Remove Manhattan from the infobox because this is not a studio nor sourced
• Pipe Astoria, New York to Astoria, Queens
• The genre is sourced as house not deep house and disco is only an influence, so switch the first and remove the second
• Pipe Maverick to Maverick (company)
• Pipe Warner Bros to Warner Records
• WP:OVERLINK of Madonna under songwriters
• "included on her fifth studio album," → "from her fifth studio album,"
• Add a second sentence mentioning the song's background vocals
• "The song was written and produced by" → "It was written and produced by both"
• "it was released" → "the song was released"
• "Nine years later after its release, "Deeper and Deeper"" → "Nine years after its release, the song" but this release is not directly mentioned in the body
• Remove the term musically from the lead and write it is a dance-pop and house song with disco and Philadelphia soul influences instead
• "its bridge features instrumentation" → "the bridge features instrumentation"
• It is a flamenco guitar featured not acoustic guitars, so alter appropriately
• Wikilink castanets per this being the article
• "that it's actually about a" → "that it is actually about a"
• "was met with positive reviews. Music critics praised" → "received positive reviews from music critics. They often praised" with the pipe
• "It was also commercially successful; peaking at number seven on the" → "The song was also commercially successful, peaking at number seven on the US"
• "the Top 10 in several countries including" → "the top 10 in several other countries, including"
• "while topping the charts in" → "while peaking at number one in"
• Remove "for "Deeper and Deeper"" after accompanying music video
• Add a sentence about the video's reception

 Done

Background

• Retitle to Background and recording
• Img looks good!
• Remove commas around Maverick
• Remove wikilink on Maverick Records
• "book publishing and merchandising division." → "book publishing, and merchandising divisions." per the source
• Remove commas around Erotica
• The title of the coffee table book is not sourced
• Remove "For Erotica" at the start of the second sentence as the previous one established the album is being referenced
• "to his remixes while Madonna" → "to his remixes, while Madonna"
• Add release year of the film
• The filming being finished when they recorded the demos is not sourced
• "to have a raw edge to it," → "to have a raw edge,"
• "take it there."" → "take it there"." per MOS:QUOTE
• "were recording the song Pettibone" → "were recording the song, Pettibone"
• "who heard it and emulated it, liked how it sounded" → "who heard this and emulated it, liked the sound"
• The "when we were..." quote does not begin with capitalisation so unless this is a mistake and should have a capital W, remove the colon and place the punctuation outside quotation marks

 Done

Composition

• Retitle to Composition and lyrics
• The lyrical info on the audio sample text is not sourced
• "by Madonna and Pettibone," → "by both Madonna and Pettibone,"
• "keyboard arrangement and programming," → "keyboard arrangement, and programming,"
• Pipe recording engineers to Audio engineer
• The genres sentence should be the one directly after background vocal

Care to elaborate?

Genres are the main musical element of any song, so should come directly after the creation info, i.e production, backing vocals etc. --K. Peake 07:25, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

• The single quotation marks for sweeter and sweeter and sweeter need to be closed
• ""Deeper and Deeper" is a" → "Musically, "Deeper and Deeper" is a"
• The dance-pop and Philadelphia soul parts are not sourced

Sources [3],[9] and [10] back this information

I managed to find the Philadelphia soul loose reference, but what source are you apparently using for dance-pop? --K. Peake 07:25, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

• "inner notes of GHV2 (2001), that they're" → "liner notes of GHV2 (2001) that they are"
• "It begins with Madonna" → ""Deeper and Deeper" begins with Madonna"
• "a flamenco guitar and" → "a flamenco guitar, and"
• [13][5][2] are out of order, not just numerically but also in terms of following the information
• Wikilink time signature
• Pipe Alfred Publishing Inc. to Alfred Music
• Pipe register to Vocal register
• "It includes, towards the end, a" → "Towards the end, the song includes a"
• "post-modern twist."" → "post-modern twist"." per MOS:QUOTE

 Done

Critical reception

• Retitle to Release and reception, moving the release info to the start of this section
• "the singer performing" → "the singer can be seen performing" on the img text and finish the sentence with a full-stop
• "received generally positive reviews;" → "was met with generally positive reviews from music critics." with the pipe
• The first review should be its own sentence because it is long enough to not be merged with the intro
• Fix MOS:QUOTE issues for only partially quoted sentences throughout this section

What do you mean? 😅

• By mentioning this guideline, I am referring to where punctuation is inside quotes when a full sentence is not quoted; take "and house territory." as an early example in this section. --K. Peake 16:01, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

• "Paul Verna referred" → "the magazine's Paul Verna referred"
• Allmusic → AllMusic
• "highlighted it as" → "highlighted the song as"
• "that doesn't need" → "that do not need"
• "Sal Cinquemani deemed it" → "Sal Cinquemani deemed the song"
• "said that it was" → "said that it is"
• "that "sounds just as good today as it did" → "that sounds equally good today to how "it did" to avoid overquoting
• "opined it "whooshes" → "opined the song "whooshes"
• "to mom and dad's" → "to Mom and Dad's" per the source
• "it was the" → "the song was the"
• "For Blender, Tony Powers" → "At Blender, Tony Powers"
• "felt the song didn't have" → "felt the song did not have"
• "Barbara Walker, writing for" → "Barbara Walker, writing in"
• "wrote that "among Madonna’s" → "wrote, "among Madonna's"
• "from The Huffington Post, placed it" → "from The Huffington Post placed the song"
• "ranking it came at number 11;" → "ranking, the song came in at number 11;"
• Pipe R&B to Contemporary R&B
• "was a "classy" → "is a "classy"
• and placed it on number 27 of" → "and placed it at number 27 on"
• "considered it Madonna's" → "considered "Deeper and Deeper" Madonna's"
• "was "pop that’s" → "is "house and pop that's"
• "while the latter deemed it" → "while the latter deemed the song" and add more than the sequel part, as you need something actual showing why they liked the song
• "with Joe Lynch writing:" → "with Lynch writing that"
• "is also considered" → "has also been considered"
• "moment, ["Deeper and Deeper"] might" → "moment, 'Deeper and Deeper' might" per the source

 Done

Commercial reception

• Retitle to Commercial performance
• Img looks good!
• The song should be mentioned as released as the second single from Erotica in the first sentence instead, as all of these are single releases
• "It debuted on the" → "The song debuted on the US"
• Pipe Hot 100 Airplay to Radio Songs (chart)
• "it peaked at number 8 and number 15," → "the song peaked at numbers 8 and 15,"
• Pipe Hot Dance Club Play to Dance Club Songs
• "It became" → "The song became"
• "fourteenth chart-toper on the Hot Dance Club chart." → "14th chart-topper on the latter chart." per MOS:NUM
• "seventeenth on the Dance Music Club," → "17th on the Hot Dance Club Play chart,"
• "Dance Music Maxi-Singles Sales," → "Dance Music Maxi-Singles Sales chart,"
• "It topped RPM's Dance charts and came at 21" → "The song topped RPM's Dance charts and came in at number 21"
• "came in at 34 and" → "came in at numbers 34 and"
• "at number 10 in the official Singles Chart on December 12 and," → "at the 10th position of the UK Singles Chart on December 12, 1992, and,"
• Remove comma before overall
• "at number 11 of Australia official chart and was certified" → "at number 11 on Australia's ARIA Singles Chart and was later certified"
• "It debuted on the twentieth position of New Zeland's" → "The song debuted on the 27th position of New Zealand's" per the source
• "in Finland,[66] and the" → "in Finland,[66] as well as the" plus you should specifically mention "top 10" positions first per the lead directly listing those countries and then add something like "further reaching the top 30 in..."
• "Ireland,[70] Sweden and Siwtzerland." → "Ireland,[70] Sweden, and Switzerland."
• Remove the commercial performance part from the European Hot 100 Singles chart sentence, as that is implied

 Done

Music video

• "and the film division of Maverick," → "and Maverick Films," per this division having already been introduced
• "on November 7–8, 1992 at" → "from November 7–8, 1992, at"
• Pipe Ren-Mar Studios to Red Studios Hollywood
• Remove wikilink on disco
• Use a more appropriate term than "counted with" to introduced the cameos
• Remove pipe on cameos
• "Ingrid Casares and German actor" → "Ingrid Casares, and German actor"
• [73][15][75][76] are you sure this is the correct order, as the first two appearances are mentioned by [75]?

I've placed them in numeric/chronological order

• That is fine, I just felt confused because they were not ordered in any specific way. --K. Peake 07:25, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

• "with a man (Kier) in" → "with a man known as Kier in" since brackets are not needed (if this is his real name, then write called Kier)

The man is played by Udo Kier

• "photographed and watching a stripper (Stefano) perform," → "photographed, and watching a stripper under the name of Stefano perform"

"a stripper under the name of Stefano perform" suggests the stripper's name is Stefano; the stripper was played by Joey Stefano (mentioned in the previous paragraph) but the name of the stripper character is never mentioned

• Oh, this makes equal sense to the previous instance of an actor being mentioned. --K. Peake 07:25, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

• Remove wikilink on Andy Warhol
• "Dita Parlo and" → "Dita Parlo, and"
• "Los Angeles Times' Chris Willman" → "The Los Angeles Times' Chris Willman"
• "blond bob possible."" → "blond bob possible"." per MOS:QUOTE
• Pipe The Backlot to AfterEllen
• "the latter one felt that it" → "the latter writer felt that the visual"
• "on the dance floor."" → "on the dance floor"."
• Mention the name of the Out writer
• "to Andy Warhol, the music video was" → "to Warhol, the visual is"
• Pipe compilation to Compilation album

 Done

Live performances

• Img looks good!
• Pipe mylar to BoPET
• "halters and royal blue bell-bottom pants," → "halters, and royal blue bell-bottoms," with the wikilink
• Mention the concert was at Madison Square Garden in New York City with the wikilink, removing the one on the city
• Wikilink The New York Times
• Add a comma after Sydney Cricket Ground
• Wikilink home video and mention when the release was
• The source does not mention the song being performed as a ballad
• "headband and a red" → "headband, and a red"
• Wikilink bustier
• Remove comma after Southern Voice
• "on its original version on" → "in the original form on"
• "on one point, a dancer carried Madonna on his back" → "at one point, a dancer carried Madonna in a"
• "that felt contemporary again."" → "that felt contemporary again"."
• Remove or replace Inquisitr per WP:RSP
• Pipe Allphones arena to Sydney Super Dome
• "and released in Madonna's fifth live album," → "and released on Madonna's fifth live album" with the wikilink

 Done

Track listing and formats

• Good

Credits and personnel

• Good

Charts

Weekly charts

• European Hot 100 → European Hot 100 Singles
• For Finland, IFPI should be piped to Musiikkituottajat
• Pipe Dance Singles Sales to Dance/Electronic Singles Sales

The chart templates has Dance Singles Sales preset; can you tell me how to pipe it?

• Sorry I did not know that the template is being cited, in that case leave this since it is not an issue anymore. --K. Peake 07:25, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

Year-end charts

• Good

Decade-end charts

• Pipe Nielsen SoundScan to MRC Data

 Done

Certifications and sales

• Good

References=

• Copyvio score looks pretty good at 32.4%!
• Pipe Billboard to Billboard (magazine) on ref 5
• Last name should be followed by first name on ref 6 for consistency and solely cite BBC Radio 1 as publisher
• Wikilink Maverick Records on ref 7
• Remove the publisher from ref 8
• Pipe Warner Bros to Warner Records on ref 12
• Allmusic → AllMusic on ref 24 with the wikilink
• Add the via parameter to refs 25 and 90, citing Google News with the wikilink

What do you mean?

• Add this parameter "via=Google News", also only wikilink on the first ref. --K. Peake 07:25, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

• Cash Box → Cashbox on ref 34
• The Huffington Post → HuffPost on ref 36 with the wikilink
• Hit parade → Hitparade on refs 64 and 65, removing the wikilink because that leads to the wrong page and cite last name followed by first and middle so the identity is clear
• WP:OVERLINK of Music & Media on ref 68
• Pipe The Backlot to AfterEllen on ref 82
• Author-link Jon Pareles on ref 86
• Wikilink Warner Music Vision on ref 88
• Remove or replace ref 97 per WP:RSP
• Wikilink Eagle Records on ref 98

Bibliography

• Pipe Lulu to Lulu.com
• Wikilink Oxford University Press
• Pipe Open Road Media to Regal Cinemas
• Author-link as Georges-Claude Guilbert instead
• Pipe Praeger to Greenwood Publishing Group
• Wikilink Omnibus Press to itself

 Done

Final comments and verdict

•  On hold until all of the issues are fixed, but regarding the ones that you have already looked at, it stood out clearly to me that you have not added any relevant text about what the sample demonstrates and this is required to keep it. --K. Peake 16:01, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

I have corrected most of the points @Kyle Peake: left; I'm just waiting for his answers on some doubts so I can fix those too--Christian (talk) 22:57, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

• Chrishm21 I have responded to any doubts you had and in the background section, you missed sourcing the book title, removing the second usage of for Erotica, proving the filming had been completed, fixing MOS:QUOTE issues, adding the comma before Pettibone and revising the part about emulating the sound. There may be some issues that you missed in the other sections too, yet I will read through them later since it is appropriate to wait until you have covered the doubts and background section. --K. Peake 07:25, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

I look forward to your answers/comments so I can correct them as soon as possible @Kyle Peake: :D --Christian (talk) 13:24, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

Chrishm21 You have not addressed the additional comments I made above about the background section, furthermore the points where I responded to your doubts have not been implemented. Regarding other problems, you forgot to change inner notes to liner notes, fix MOS:QUOTE issues in comp, pipe Hot Dance Club Play to Dance Club Songs, remove comma before overall, mention what countries top 10 positions were in, introduce the concert as being in Madison Square Garden, fix the live album prose, pipe Warner Bros, change to AllMusic on the ref and wikilink Warner Music Vision. Quite frankly, I am disappointed in an editor as experienced as you having given a sloppy response. --K. Peake 09:49, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

@Kyle Peake: I am currently dealing with some personal medical issues that take up time and don't allow me to respond to reviews as quickly as before. That does not mean I am giving sloppy responses. I will get to all the points you have left and correct them as soon as possible.--Christian (talk) 13:44, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

@Kyle Peake: I have corrected more and will continue later on after my medical appointment.--Christian (talk) 16:10, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

@Chrishm21: That is good to see you are making progress, however I'm sorry if you felt insulted by my comments; I was not originally aware of your medical problems and I hope you recover soon. --K. Peake 09:37, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

@Kyle Peake: That is quite alright :) I have corrected everything I think. Let me know!--Christian (talk) 19:17, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

@Chrishm21: This looks better now, yet you still need to fix MOS:QUOTE issues in critical reception, specify which countries top 10 positions were in and revise the prose introducing her fifth live album. --K. Peake 06:37, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

@Kyle Peake: Hi there! I have specified the top 10 countries in the "commercial reception" section, fixed the quotations in "critical reception" and switched "in" for "on" in the "live performance" section. Let me know!--Christian (talk) 13:25, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

• ✓ Pass now, does not look like anything has been missed this time! --K. Peake 14:19, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

Any resemblence with Freda Payne's song of the same name?

Deeper and deeper In love with you Each day gets sweeter and sweeter Just being with you I'm so in love with you 149.62.20.190 (talk) 02:17, 14 August 2022 (UTC)