Talk:Deaths in September 2007

madeleine l'engle

... she's listed twice on here... which one is right? i gathered the fact that she died... The Hemogoblin 01:13, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Liberian deaths

I find it very strange that two former Liberian foreign ministers are reported to have died on the same day (7 September). Given the fairly scant media references, I wonder if there is some confusion in this matter? WWGB 00:47, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

the sources seem to corroborate both dying the same day, but it does seem odd. we'll just have to keep an eye out for more sourcing, perhaps. tomasz. 12:09, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Colin McRae

Teletext reports that Colin McRae is feared dead after a helicopter crash. Someone keep an eye on sources, this appears to give no information but was published just half an hour ago. Formal identification, it says, will happen tomorrow. Bobo. 20:46, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

German language source added, nice spot. I'll keep an eye out for an English source in the meantime. Bobo. 20:52, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't want to get into an edit war about this, but shouldn't we wait for official confirmation on an English-language site (eg. BBC, a reputable newspaper, a reputable motorsport news site) before listing it here? I think the balance of probability is that he is dead, but it isn't certain.--Lec CRP1 21:01, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes we should, not just on grounds of being a reliable encyclopaedia but also on grounds of basic human dignity. Sam Blacketer 21:03, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

BBC.co.uk hasn't yet reported it, but Ceefax has claimed that he is "feared dead". That's as much information as I've seen in English so far. Bobo. 21:02, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Link to Times Online added, still hasn't appeared in Google News or on bbc.co.uk, but if it occurs on the latter it is likely to include more in-depth information. Bobo. 21:07, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Times Online says "believed dead" and quotes his agent. As I said, we should wait for an official announcement. I'm personally checking the sites every couple of minutes. --Lec CRP1 21:09, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for this, I am doing the same, by the morning we're surely going to be linking this through to a more conclusive BBC source anyway? Bobo. 21:11, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

I've no doubt there will be some sort of statement in the very near future. The motorsport sites will probably know before the BBC if there is any 'unofficial' confirmation, as they will have people around who know McCrae personally. Autosport say that McCrae's helicopter was involved in a fatal crash with no confirmation of those killed. __Lec CRP1 21:19, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Ok, if The Times says he is dead (rather than qualifying it), then I'm prepared to accept it, with reservations. The BBC nor Autosport are confirming as yet.--Lec CRP1 21:28, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Beeb is reporting it but merely noting that a helicopter has gone down near his property and that two are dead. tomasz. 21:10, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

The Timesonline is now headed "Rally champion Colin McRae dies with son in helicopter crash". As of now the story begins (confusingly) by confirming McRae's death but saying that his son is "feared dead". Sam Blacketer 21:13, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

According to the 10pm news on BBC1, they're not confirming anything until tommorow, so he should be kept off the list until then.CDowns 21:29, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

The London Times is reporting it as fact. There is much more than prima facie evidence. In fact there is sufficient evidence to post it on this little list until we find out otherwise. Because this list has no legal effect. And it is more useful to tell people something that may possibly be found to be not the case (who believes that here), than leave them in the dark entirely. 88888 00:20, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

His agent has confirmed it as fact that he, his son, his son's friend and his son's father are dead, on News 24. R.i.P. Ade1982 01:57, 16 September 2007 (UTC) I agree that it should be left for proper identification from police though

BBC now confirming a police statement naming those believed to be involved in the crash [1] Edmund Patrick ( ^confer _work) 12:07, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

I can't say this rigmarole over the listing reflects well on wikipedia. What happened to good faith and common sense? Even after reliable sources like the Times were reporting his death and there was nowhere even a suggestion of a doubt about it being raised, people were reverting the listing. When someone is lost in the jungle/at sea/gone missing then of course we wait. Can we list Hitler as dead yet? Let's do better next time. 88888 13:50, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

I didn't participate in either the adding or deletion of McRae, and I do think the whole thing was a bit silly. A key rule with WP:BLP is "better safe than sorry," at least how I read it. Yes, arguably he was dead so BLP didn't apply, but again, safer to assume that it might when there's doubt. Also, I don't see why it's so important to have their death immediately added to Wikipedia. Waiting 24 hours for official confirmation is not going to be such a big hassle in the grand scheme of things. His inclusion on Recent Deaths doesn't make him any more or less dead. Cheers, CP 15:02, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

my thoughts on the matter entirely. we gain little by being fastest, much by being most accurate. tomasz. 15:39, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Except it was already beyond doubt. Fetishism and priggishness - the great wikipedia time wasters. 88888 00:15, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Robert Jordan

Before I mention this, I was NOT the one who added him to recent deaths. Now that I've said that, in the wake of the Colin McRae fiasco, I'm wondering aloud whether his personal blog is a reliable source per Wikipedia and whether or not there's going to be another revert war. As per my comments under the Colin McRae section, I have no inclination to remove or re-add him, I'm more concerned in principle whether or not this will be acceptable. I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm 99% sure that he's dead, but it would be hypocritical of me to apply a different standard to Jordan than I did to McRae. I'm sure, too, that a source will come within a day or so that will be acceptable, I'm just worried about revert wars. Cheers, CP 02:05, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Myra Nicholson death

Greetings,

In regards to Myra Nicholson's death: Self-published material may, in some circumstances, be acceptable when produced by an established expert on the topic of the article whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable third-party publications.

Australia's oldest passed away:

Myra Nicholson 1894-2007

It is my unfortunate task today to report that Australia's current oldest woman and person, Myra Nicholson, aged 112 years+, born Dec 14, 1894 passed away today 20 Sept 2007. More info later. Ryoung122 20:28, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

It's now been reported in an online newspaper, so have updated the source to avoid further edit-warring. Richard B 15:46, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Lady Jeanne Campbell

Duke's daughter said to have slept with Kennedy, Krushchev and Castro who became Norman Mailer's third wife.[2] We need a date of death and an entry and an article. Fast! 88888 10:24, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

John Bryan

Concerning the reference to John Bryan's death on Sept 7th: the internal Wikipedia link is bad. It actually connects to John Heritage Bryan. Has there been an article written about this former St. Petersburg, FL city council member, and the link's just wrong, or does one need to be written? --Wordy1 00:08, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Name disambiguated to John Bryan (Florida councilman), hence now a redlink. Without an article, the death notice will eventually be deleted. WWGB 00:49, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

It should probably just be flat out removed, since someone did create a John Bryan article (for the John Bryan in question) and it was deleted in an AfD. Cheers, CP 15:36, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, I agree, death notice removed. WWGB 23:45, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Bob Collins (Australian politician)

We say he died on 20 September (Thursday). Other reports I've seen have it happening on 21 September (Friday). Yet others have the infamous sit-on-the-fence term "overnight".

The citation [3] used both here and in his own article doesn't actually say when it happened.

This says that Northern Territory police ... arrived at Mr Collins' home at about 8:00am ACST after they were contacted by his relatives, which suggests his wife found him dead in the morning. If so, the doctor issuing the death certificate would have had to estimate Collins's time of death. I've seen no reports of this estimate.

It's a reasonable assumption that 20 September is the right date, but 21 September could turn out to be the right one. We may need to revise the death date when more information become available. -- JackofOz 04:32, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm going with the 21 September option, based on cites like these: [4], [5], [6]. Indeed, I can find no references that state 20 September as the date of death. I am varying the Wikipedia article and death notice accordingly. WWGB 05:41, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Well done. Thanks, WWGB. -- JackofOz 05:56, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

George Bernier

George Bernier (died 17 September) is about to disappear. When was the last time there were no notable deaths on a given date? WWGB 11:29, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

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