Talk:David Zatezalo

Content issues

I have remove this content due to a variety of issues.

• "The company and the industry as a whole suffered declines during his tenure" fails verification. The source says neither of these things. It says "During the second quarter, Rhino sold 912,000 tons of coal, down from 1.1 million tons in Q2 2012," (an apparently marginal decrease that the article doesn't tie to Zatezalo) but it makes no general statements about the state of the coal industry as a whole and makes no assessment of the company's overall performance during Zatezalo's tenure.

• "In 2010, the company's Eagle #1 mine was cited for a potential pattern of safety violations." The first source given is WP:PRIMARY. The second source mentions neither Rhino or Zatezalo. Because of this, the content is WP:SYNTH/WP:OR.

• "The following year, the company was warned again, after a miner died in the Eagle #1 mine." Also a WP:PRIMARY source.

• "Pattern of Violations notices are relatively rare. None have been issued in the last three years." This is also WP:OR, and does not mention Rhino or Zatezalo, so has a WP:COATRACK feel.

I added a summary of his mining career from the Charleston Gazette-Mail, which is definitely a better source than PDFs uploaded to Document Cloud. Please do not restore the above edits until responding to the issues addressed above. Marquardtika (talk) 00:58, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

Hello Marquardtika --

(1) Zatezelo was the boss at Rhino when sales went down 17% year on year. I don't know about your business, but my boss would be screaming if sales dropped 17%. Coal Age talked about declining conditions "ahead of market improvements". I don't want to fight about it; I'll find some better references.

(2) Zatezale was the boss at Rhino when the Eagle # 1 was tagged with a potential pattern of violations in 2010. The Charleston Gazette-Mail said so and provided the links to the primary sources. Nothing wrong with primary sources if we have the secondary sources.

(3) Zatezale was the boss at Rhino when the Eagle # 1 was tagged with a potential pattern of violations in 2011. The Charleston Gazette-Mail said so and provided the links to the primary sources. Nothing wrong with primary sources if we have the secondary sources.

(4) Context. Of course an article that says no mine got a POV would not mention Zatezelo.

Zatezalo will be the nations' chief mine safety officer. He won't be inspecting mines himself; he will delegate that that to staff. How he managed safety at his mines, through his staff is relevant to his appointment. I look forward to working with you to have a cogent, crisp, and well-balanced article as time goes by. Rhadow (talk) 01:48, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for responding. For item #1, yes, if you could find some different sources that specifically state that Rhino and the coal industry declined during Zatezalo's tenure, that would be great. #2 and #3) my take is that since we have a good WP:SECONDARY source in the Charleston Gazette-Mail, there is no reason to use WP:PRIMARY sources. The journalist already crunched the facts, we just need to report what he wrote. I tried to do that in my version--do you have an alternative recommendation on how to word the content that is currently worded "The company received pattern of violations warning letters from MSHA in 2010 and 2011..." and for #4) this may provide context, but I'm afraid that it's WP:OR since the sourcing doesn't mention Zatezalo or Rhino. We need to be reporting what reliable secondary sources have said about Zatezalo. Are there sources that specifically mention Zatezalo that we can use to add context here? Marquardtika (talk) 02:21, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

Confirmation vote

Hell JocularJellyfish -- The article as it exists, is misleading. It's not just a question of when Zatezalo takes office. We are waiting for a vote by the full Senate. That could happen this afternoon, but I haven't seen come across the wire yet. Rhadow (talk) 23:25, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

@Rhadow:, that's why it says "nominee" in the infobox. – JocularJellyfish ^Talk_Contribs 23:29, 13 November 2017 (UTC)