Talk:David Walker (American football coach)

Deletion Tag

Tassedethe tagged this article for deletion, with this rationale: "non-notable athlete and coach. Never played professionally, fails WP:ATHLETE" Since I created this article, I'd like to respond.

Firstly, the WP:ATHLETE guidelines on notability are secondary guidelines. The document says: "Failure to meet these criteria is not conclusive proof that a subject should not be included; conversely, meeting one or more does not guarantee that a subject should be included. Should a person fail to meet these additional criteria, they may still be notable under Wikipedia:Notability." Clearly, there are hundreds examples of college football players who have been demmed notable depsite never playing professionally. Examples include Ernie Davis, Tommie_Frazier, Maurice Clarett, Gordie Lockbaum, Harry Stuhldreher... I could go on and on. The fact that Dave Walker didn't play professionally is not adequate grounds for deleting this article.

Secondly, I think one could make the argument that college football rises to the same level as professional football in terms of notability. In fact, one could make the case that WP:ATHLETE states this explicitly ("Competitors who have competed at the highest level in amateur sports.") And while I wouldn't argue that every college player should be included (or even that every pro player should be included), I think that star players for major programs ought to be included. Walker was the captain and star of a high-ranked team. He was one of the most prolific running backs at a school with a long tradition of great runners (as the article points out). If there is any question about whether his playing career was notable, then I will work to beef up the article. But that's a failure of me, the author, not Walker.

Thirdly, Walker is also notable for his success as an assistant coach in the college ranks. I wouldn't argue that every assistant coach meets the notabilty guidelines, but I believe that Walker does. There have been newspaper and magazine articles that talk about the performance of the players he has tutored and the high number of his guys who have gone on to the NFL. He has been called a rising young star in the coaching ranks. Again, if the article doesn't convey that or cite enough supporting evidence, then the burden is on the author or the editorial community to beef it up.

Fourthly, the notabilty guidelines offer this as the basic criteria: "A person is presumed to be notable if he or she has been the subject of published secondary source material which is reliable, intellectually independent, and independent of the subject." A google search of ["David Walker" Syracuse] turns up 11,500 hits, with sources like ESPN and the New York Times on the first page. Some of these 11,500 hits may be for other people, since David Walker is not a unique name, but a lot of them are about the subject of this article.

I'm open to comments and feedback from others. But for now, I'm going to remove Tassedethe's deletion tag and work on improving the article. Anson2995 (talk) 16:11, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

I have no problem with you removing the tag. If you find good references which actively discuss Walker (not just passing mentions etc.) then that should be good enough to raise him above the WP:BIO level. I understand about the WP:ATHLETE requirements. The examples you cite however have clear WP:N statements, e.g Heisman trophy winners, NCAA championship wins, College Football HOF etc., something that Walker does not have. The "Competitors who have competed at the highest level in amateur sports.", only applies to sports that don't have a professional level. As for the assistant coaching, I don't feel that merely having coached good (notable) players confers notability on the coach. Thanks for your well reasoned arguments, and good luck. Tassedethe (talk) 16:58, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your guidance and constructive feedback. I'll work on making the article better. Anson2995 (talk) 17:48, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

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