Talk:David Steel
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Prepare for Government
editShouldn't there be mention of the Falkland's war, and it's impact on the electorate at the time?(Halbared 18:34, 28 May 2006 (UTC))
Location of article
editSteel is very well known without his peerage and indeed did not use it when in the Scottish Parliament - surely the best location is David Steel? Timrollpickering 18:52, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
- It's been two months and no-one's said anything. If there's no objection, I intend to move the article to David Steel in 7 days time. Timrollpickering 17:17, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
Family
editWhy is there nothing about David Steel's family? Troublemaker1949 (talk) 10:11, 19 August 2009 (UTC) There is something about his family now. However, the adopted son, Billy, is not mentioned. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.181.145.214 (talk) 09:50, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
Requested move 10 May 2015
edit- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the move request was: not moved. Number 57 17:21, 25 May 2015 (UTC)
David Steel → David Steel, Baron Steel of Aikwood – Steel's title is legally part of his name, and he is widely known by it: see here, here and here where he is referred to as "Lord Steel" rather than simply "David Steel". Zacwill16 (talk) 11:26, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
- Oppose WP:OFFICIALNAME, WP:CONCISE, WP:PTOPIC -- longer title for a "primary topic" for no reason, since we do not use official names just because they are official, and we use the shorter forms when available since they are shorter -- 65.94.43.89 (talk) 13:27, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
- Compromise: we move it to David, Lord Steel of Aikwood. This is shorter, but still includes his title. Zacwill16 (talk) 17:08, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
- No, the title is unnecessary, as it makes it longer for no reason, thus is a failure of WP:PRECISE -- "David Steel" is much shorter than either proposed title. Further, your compromise makes no sense, since "Baron Steel" does not necessarily make it his surname. That will greatly depend on the system of baronage, and family ties and precedence. -- 65.94.43.89 (talk) 20:57, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
- You do not seem to understand that peers and royals generally use their title in place of their surname. Referring to David Lord Steel as "David Steel" is like referring to Charles Prince of Wales as "Charles Windsor". Zacwill16 (talk) 10:32, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
- You do not understand. He is a lifepeer, he does not hold hereditary title, so he is not like Charles. He was elevated in 1997, long after he became famous, and elevated for reasons of his service, so also unlike Charles, he wasn't known because he was a peer. His title is a late-in-life accessory, and not what defined his political career. If anything, he's like Sir Patrick Stewart, elevated because of service, to a rank that is held for life and not hereditary. -- 65.94.43.89 (talk) 14:30, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
- It is still a peerage, regardless of whether it will die with him or be inherited by his children. Your point about Charles makes no sense, since Charles' title isn't hereditary either: his mother granted it to him in 1958, and it will go extinct when he becomes king.
- You do not understand. He is a lifepeer, he does not hold hereditary title, so he is not like Charles. He was elevated in 1997, long after he became famous, and elevated for reasons of his service, so also unlike Charles, he wasn't known because he was a peer. His title is a late-in-life accessory, and not what defined his political career. If anything, he's like Sir Patrick Stewart, elevated because of service, to a rank that is held for life and not hereditary. -- 65.94.43.89 (talk) 14:30, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
- You do not seem to understand that peers and royals generally use their title in place of their surname. Referring to David Lord Steel as "David Steel" is like referring to Charles Prince of Wales as "Charles Windsor". Zacwill16 (talk) 10:32, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
- No, the title is unnecessary, as it makes it longer for no reason, thus is a failure of WP:PRECISE -- "David Steel" is much shorter than either proposed title. Further, your compromise makes no sense, since "Baron Steel" does not necessarily make it his surname. That will greatly depend on the system of baronage, and family ties and precedence. -- 65.94.43.89 (talk) 20:57, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
- Compromise: we move it to David, Lord Steel of Aikwood. This is shorter, but still includes his title. Zacwill16 (talk) 17:08, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
- 1997 was eighteen years ago. A significant part of Steel's career has passed since then. Don't you think it's a bit anachronistic and misleading to refer to him by a name he hasn't been known by in almost two decades? Zacwill16 (talk) 15:24, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
- Read Snowfire's response below. Further, you're proposing to use a longer title for no good reason. It's longer, so it fails WP:CONSISE. It is a lifepeerage, so not longterm significance. It's not heritable, so it's not really all that. Charles is not a lifepeer, he was born royal, not elevated to royalty. His styling came with his birth. He passes down eligibility to the throne by descent. So, Charles is not the same as Steel. Charles was born a prince, heritable due to his birth, and passed that down to the heir and the spare. -- 65.94.43.89 (talk) 06:11, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
- 1997 was eighteen years ago. A significant part of Steel's career has passed since then. Don't you think it's a bit anachronistic and misleading to refer to him by a name he hasn't been known by in almost two decades? Zacwill16 (talk) 15:24, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
- Comment I think if anything he might be more recognisable as David Steel (Liberal Democrats) re the party that he formed. GregKaye 08:42, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
- Oppose. His career post-peerage is far less notable, and it appears quite incorrect to claim that he's referred to as "Lord Steel" or the like since. Looking at the listed references in the article quite a number just use "David Steel", and certainly all of the contemporary references in his main career pre-97 use "David Steel." In fact the article as is plays up his title too much anyway in an anachronistic fashion; there shouldn't be a misleading implication he was a Lord who entered politics, when he was rather a commoner politician who much later got a lordship. See Talk:Adolfo Suárez#Requested move for a similar case. SnowFire (talk) 18:01, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
- Also, here's an editorial written by Steel *yesterday* under the byline "David Steel" (not "Lord Steel" or "Baron Steel"): http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/11/nick-clegg-liberal-democrats-disaster-coalition SnowFire (talk) 18:26, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
- With that byline, the proposed title also fails MOS:IDENTITY -- the person in question does not use it for personal identification. -- 65.94.43.89 (talk) 06:12, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
- Comment his, so to speak, peers predominantly get mentioned by their titles. GregKaye 05:39, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
See:
- John Alderdice, Baron Alderdice
- Richard Allan, Baron Allan of Hallam
- David Alliance, Baron Alliance
- Paddy Ashdown
- Elizabeth Barker, Baroness Barker
- Floella Benjamin, Baroness Benjamin
- Jane Bonham-Carter, Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury
- William Bradshaw, Baron Bradshaw
- Sal Brinton
- John Burnett, Baron Burnett
- Alex Carlile, Baron Carlile of Berriew
- David Chidgey, Baron Chidgey
- Timothy Clement-Jones, Baron Clement-Jones
- Brian Cotter, Baron Cotter
And that's just the A,B,Cs
I think that there are double standards when Kate Middleton is called Catherine, Duchess of Cambridge due to family position while the likes of David Steel are not credited in such a was as David Steel, Baron Steel of Aikwood despite or perhaps because of notable political achievement.
GregKaye 05:39, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
External links modified
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Needs whole new section on Cyril Smith
editNeeds to be major section on this, so that in future, any profile of Steel, picks this up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.240.58.228 (talk) 11:54, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
Father or son?
editA 44 year old mother was found dead in Steels hot tub after a 48 hour marathon party...
- Which Steel? Valetude (talk) 10:51, 18 October 2019 (UTC)
"is a British retired politician" should be "is a retired British politician"
editI don't have a reference to support this idea but in the opening sentence I think the "retired" is better placed before "British" ? Southof40 (talk) 19:09, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
- Yes, I thought that too. Alarics (talk) 21:02, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
- OK, thanks. In the absence of any "no" response I've gone ahead and made the change. Southof40 (talk) 10:00, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
David Steel. I wrote to you before correcting the outline brief on my departure from the House of Lords which occurred NOT after the Cyril Smith inquiry but on the 50th anniversary of my by-election at the end of March 2015. Please correct. David Steel
editsee above. 2A00:23C5:3304:D101:59D1:5A4F:4BAF:37D9 (talk) 14:32, 15 October 2024 (UTC)