Talk:Darrell Zimmerman

Recent edits

I've tried to summarize the reason for some of the recent edits, but here's a summary:

• Unreliable sources, such as social media, blogs and youtube are not reliable sources for articles; which is even more closely viewed for WP:Biographies of living persons - see the note at the top of this page.
• Content should be neutral and objective. See WP:Neutrality.
• Content should not include promotional information. See WP:PROMOTION.

Actually, it would probably be good to look over the entire Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not, where the Promotion info is located.--CaroleHenson (talk) 00:23, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Thank you - I do not see how a comment by a former colleague in the Chicago reader makes a good "objective" footnote and and positive review in a respected (and very serious) jazz magazine, Cadence, by a reviewer who does not even know Zimmerman beyond his playing does not, especially when discussing somebody who is a musician. You removed Zimmerman as a politician saying "he was an independent candidate, not a politician" when naturally being a mayoral candidate makes him a politician per definition. You insist he is an activist but you remove his political platform which is something he himself must declare per definition. You say he was living in a tent camp when he was removed from the mayoral debate but not that that tent camp was part of a protest by Occupy Vancouver which is naturally highly relevant since Zimmerman was a mayoral candidate at the time. So I'm sorry, but I do not see how your edits make the Zimmerman entry more objective and complete in accord with wikipedia's stated goals no matter how often I read the neutrality and promotion guidelines. As for sourcing (a video showing him being expelled from the mayoral debate as verification of what he was saying at the tim) and a video stating his political platform in his own words by Occupy Vancouver) they both for obvious reasons both make the entry more, not less accurate, though if there is a blanket prohibition on youtube videos so be it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.253.116.181 (talk) 02:57, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Numbering the comments by 189.253.116.181to better address them:

1. I do not see how a comment by a former colleague in the Chicago reader makes a good "objective" footnote and and positive review in a respected (and very serious) jazz magazine, Cadence, by a reviewer who does not even know Zimmerman beyond his playing does not, especially when discussing somebody who is a musician.
2. You removed Zimmerman as a politician saying "he was an independent candidate, not a politician" when naturally being a mayoral candidate makes him a politician per definition.
3. You insist he is an activist but you remove his political platform which is something he himself must declare per definition.
4. You say he was living in a tent camp when he was removed from the mayoral debate but not that that tent camp was part of a protest by Occupy Vancouver which is naturally highly relevant since Zimmerman was a mayoral candidate at the time.
5. As for sourcing (a video showing him being expelled from the mayoral debate as verification of what he was saying at the tim) and a video stating his political platform in his own words by Occupy Vancouver) they both for obvious reasons both make the entry more, not less accurate, though if there is a blanket prohibition on youtube videos so be it.

Here are my comments:

1. There was not a problem with the source ("Cadence"), it's a fine source and is used in the article. The first couple of sentences of the originally posted info is still there - and cited with Cadence. What was removed was the promotional language:

"This trio has recorded a set of Albert Ayler pieces which was released on Ayler records and their allegiance to the Free Jazz tradition is in evidence throughout. The three manage to invest the music with a vital energy with Bringas’ skirling reeds and braying trumpet caterwauling against thrumming bass and Lauber’s roiling polyrhythms. The group “¿?” is featured on a short interlude and one longer improvisation. The pairing of Bringas’ and Zimmerman’s trumpets against Alegre’s sawing violin and Lauber’s churning drums provides a potent blast. While both clearly come to their instruments as second horns, they play with an unfettered directness and physicality. When Bringas switches to piano, his brittle percussive clusters add an effective textural depth. By evidence of this CD, both of these groups would be great to hear in a live performance. Featured CDs by each are certainly warranted."

This is promotional language. See WP:PROMOTION and the WP:What Wikipedia is not.

2. I thought "Independent candidate" provided the clearer, most accurate picture of Zimmerman's background. He's only been a mayoral candidate for Vancouver. "Politician" infers that the person has made a career of politics, but definitions of politician do include someone running for office. I just thought candidate was the most an appropriate, clear word to use.

3. If you have a better word than activist, that would be great! I had objected to "political provocateur" because its not as neutral as activist. Do you have a good, neutral word? Or, should we just take "activist" out of the intro?

4. Here's the information about why using youtube as a source is problematic: Wikipedia:Reliable_source_examples#Are IRC, MySpace, Facebook, and YouTube reliable sources?

Going back to take a look at items 1 and 4.-- will update this section shortly.--CaroleHenson (talk) 03:29, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Finished adding my comments above.--CaroleHenson (talk) 03:53, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Cadence citation

Do you have a full citation for the Cadence article?

I tried searching for it - and cannot find the actual magazine article. Although it appears it may have been from 2007.

We've got author and magazine - we should have at a minimum:

• Article title
• Publish date

It's good to have either a url or the volume/issue info.--CaroleHenson (talk) 04:00, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

External links modified

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• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111027204621/http://www.vancouverobserver.com:80/politics/2011/10/26/vision-vancouver%E2%80%99s-economic-platform-overshadowed-occupy-movement to http://www.vancouverobserver.com/politics/2011/10/26/vision-vancouver%E2%80%99s-economic-platform-overshadowed-occupy-movement
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160303205012/http://www.cnnexpansion.com/expansion/2011/09/14/las-confesiones-de-un-corredor-desbocado to http://www.cnnexpansion.com/expansion/2011/09/14/las-confesiones-de-un-corredor-desbocado

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