Talk:Daredevil: Born Again

Cast

Deadline in their report on Bethel highlight Margarita Levieva, Arty Froushan, Sandrine Holt, Michael Gandolfini and Nikki M. James as still being part of the cast https://deadline.com/2024/01/daredevil-born-again-wilson-bethel-bullseye-marvel-disney-plus-1235803004/. Rusted AutoParts 02:06, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

I have added those actors back to the cast list and noted their castings were reaffirmed. Trailblazer101 (talk) 03:07, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

I interpreted that statement in the article as just regurgitating the cast from previously, not necessarily a reconfirmation that they were returning on the restart. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 19:33, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

I am a bit concerned about what has been done with the cast over the last few days. TVLine was used to remove most of the cast and then Deadline was used to restore some of those, but neither of those articles support those actions in my opinion. TVLine is speculating that anything could change with the previous cast following the creative overhaul, not reporting that it is possible that they will be removed, and based on the other reporting that we have it sounds like most of the existing 6 episodes will be retained. So I don't think we can use that TVLine article to support removing the previous cast members. But even if we did, I agree with Favre that the Deadline article is not reconfirming the shorter casting list, they are just relisting some of the previously reported cast members. I think we need to restore the full cast list (i.e. add Walton, Johnson, and Guevara back to the cast list) and wait until there is a source that is actually reporting their removal from the series. I do think we can use the TVLine article as we have it in the Casting section to say it is unclear whether they will all be retained, but I don't think we should keep the Deadline article in that section except for Bethel. - adamstom97 (talk) 05:01, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

I can definitely see the concerns to be had with both these articles, and I would support restoring the entire cast section and making necessary adjustments, including not using the Deadline article to source that janky wording. Trailblazer101 (talk) 05:54, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

I have boldly restored the cast listing and removed the additional Deadline ref tags, speculative details. Trailblazer101 (talk) 23:40, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

@Adamstom.97 and Trailblazer101: Just catching up. I still feel we need a way to indicate who was cast prior to the overhaul as we don't truly know who's character's will be retained with whatever they are reworking with what was already shot. That was the reasoning behind my reformatting and using the TVLine source as a way to state that. Much like the directors and the previous known writers, we should provide some delineation in the cast section for reader to know these actors may still be involved, but we aren't fully certain yet. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 18:16, 4 February 2024 (UTC)

Just chiming in to say that four of the previously-cast actors have been spotted on set since filming resumed: Levieva, Froushan, and Gandolfini with Walton. Not sure if these can be mentioned in the article in any way, just sharing for added context. Aldwiki1 (talk) 18:38, 4 February 2024 (UTC)

That is helpful. I was able to add Levieva and will go about adding those other two. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 18:44, 4 February 2024 (UTC)

These set photo sources reaffirming their involvement is more definitive verification indeed. I'm still not certain if we should prop up the TVLine article in a more prominent manner in the "Cast" section as it was not necessarily a report and was more so just expressing uncertainty given the creative overhaul happened. I don't think we necessarily need to list every time an actor already cast is "reaffirmed" to be in the series given there was no conclusive indication or report any actors were actually being removed or had the potential to be. Trailblazer101 (talk) 19:24, 4 February 2024 (UTC)

Ok so I wanted to bring this discussion back. With Zurer now confirmed to be returning (and thus replacing Holt), I also came across this article (which we can't use as a reference) that mentions that Nikki James may also have been written out of the series. I think we need to make clear in the cast section actors who were previously known to have been cast but have not been reconfirmed following the overhaul. That would currently be Nikki James; Clark Johnson; Zabryna Guevara; Michael Gaston; Marc Geller; and Harris Yulin. @Rusted AutoParts, Adamstom.97, Trailblazer101, and Aldwiki1: since you all discussed previously, if you would like to add any new thoughts. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 20:40, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

Should we hide them from the cast list/lead/infobox until they are reconfirmed, but leave their casting details since we don't have a source either way? - adamstom97 (talk) 20:42, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

I'd support infobox and lead removal certainly at this time, and possibly just a prose sentence listing them in the cast section (and leaving all that we have in casting already). So something like Prior to the series' creative overhaul, the following were known to be involved with the series: Nikki M. James as Kirsten McDuffie; Clark Johnson as Cherry; Zabryna Guevara as Sheila Rivera; Michael Gaston; Marc Geller; and Harris Yulin. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 20:51, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

I would support that, given the skepticism and ambiguity on if they are actually still attached. While I do believe some of these cast changes were inevitable given the overhaul, nothing has really been concrete (save for the Vanessa reverse recasting). Trailblazer101 (talk) 20:58, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

Hiding them at the least makes sense. Given there being no means of corroborating they had come back following the overhaul, nor if their roles got recast with previous actors ala Vanessa, hiding at the least keeps them embedded on the page until they're able to be reconfirmed. Rusted AutoParts 21:26, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

I'll go ahead with the change! - Favre1fan93 (talk) 21:45, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

This can't be used but back in March someone who visited the set and took some photos said they spotted a trailer for Nikki James' character Kirsten McDuffie. And two days ago they reaffirmed that it was indeed for that character, which might indicate that McDuffie is still in the show. We don't have definitive proof since they only took a photo of Vanessa's trailer but I thought I'd share regardless. Aldwiki1 (talk) 21:41, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

Yes, I think with what we're proposing, that still leave this open to being possible once things are confirmed either way (if James is still in the show or not, or if the character itself is or isn't in the show). - Favre1fan93 (talk) 21:45, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

Is this really a miniseries?

I haven't seen any confirmation about it being so, and that is why I asked this. Thanks. Mattgelo (talk) 10:13, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

It is sourced in the "Creative overhaul" section as being a big "limited series", which is just used interchangeably with "miniseries". It doesn't have two seasons (which would not make it limited or a miniseries) but rather is split up into two parts. Most of Marvel Studios' MCU series are miniseries by definition unless they get additional seasons, and there is consensus to use the "miniseries" term for these series. Trailblazer101 (talk) 19:04, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

There's confirmation that season 2 is filming soon: https://x.com/DiscussingFilm/status/1822119928180117798?s=19

So I guess it means this show is no longer a miniseries, and a full-fledged series like the Loki series. Mattgelo (talk) 06:44, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

I think we may want to wait for further clarification on this season wording, as we have it sourced that may not be exactly used due to some contractual reasons. It may not be the case anymore, though it is something to be mindful of. Trailblazer101 (talk) 06:47, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

Looks like Feige specifically said season 1 is coming next year and season 2 is filming soon, so if there were contractual reasons for not saying season those may have been resolved now. - adamstom97 (talk) 07:50, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

I added this source but haven't tried to update the wording we have around the article yet. - adamstom97 (talk) 08:23, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

I think we should adjust the wording to be season 1 is nine episodes with season 2 in the works, and previous reports were it being 18 episodes, or classified as "parts". - Favre1fan93 (talk) 02:46, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

We can use this TVLine source as well if needed, as they were the site Cox told about 9 episodes being filmed so they bring it all together: Cox told TVLine that nine episodes were filmed, to premiere in March 2025 — and now comes word, via the cast’s appearance at D23, that filming on a second season will begin “soon.” - Favre1fan93 (talk) 02:48, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

I have updated the article with this wording and source. - adamstom97 (talk) 09:34, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

I think that we should also consider the second season as the final one exactly like Andor (TV series). In fact this is a 18-episode limited series with 2 seasons consisting in 9 episodes each one. Tizio Incognito (talk) 08:30, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

Do you have a source to support that? - adamstom97 (talk) 12:50, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

Of course. This article specifies that the series will have two seasons. Tizio Incognito (talk) 13:11, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

I don't think it specifies that there will only be two seasons, just that there will be at least two. And even if there are only two seasons, that would be stretching the common definition of "limited series". - adamstom97 (talk) 16:21, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

In fact I didn't say that it should be indicated as a "limited series" but only to consider the second season as the final one when the first one will have been distribuited on March 2025. This has been done also for [[Andor (TV series)]. Tizio Incognito (talk) 16:27, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

There is no source confirming the second season will be its last. You are just assuming based off of what another separate work did, which is not how Wikipedia works. Unless you have a source confirming there will only be two seasons, this is pure WP:SPECULATION, which is not allowed. Trailblazer101 (talk) 23:00, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

Now it's not anymore "pure WP:SPECULATION" because this article confirmed that the series will run for 2 seasons with a total of 18 episodes. Tizio Incognito (talk) 13:55, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

That source does not confirm this. It is not a great source to begin with and it is not reporting that there will only be two seasons, it is just discussing what is known so far. - adamstom97 (talk) 13:59, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

If it isn't a great source, why it is used in various pages? Tizio Incognito (talk) 14:01, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS, just because another article does something does not mean we should do it here. - adamstom97 (talk) 14:10, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

Anyway also Deadline, which should be a "great source", called Daredevil: Born Again a "two-season series" in this article. Tizio Incognito (talk) 14:12, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

The official announcement of a second season came after that article, so it is out-of-date. I still wouldn't think that supports what you want it to support. We are in WP:NOHURRY, if this is truly going to end after two seasons then we will get a more definitive source to support that claim in due time. - adamstom97 (talk) 14:36, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

Episode count

Cox confirmed that they have filmed 9 episodes for the show. I don't think that means that the other 9 episodes won't be made, but potentially the plan has changed. I know there is a source out there saying Marvel is going to see how the first 9 go before making more, but it isn't a reliable source. Sneider tweeted about this as well but doesn't have any extra info to add yet. - adamstom97 (talk) 16:04, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

I figured this was the case. I'm sure there will be some more concrete reports in the coming months as to when they film the remaining 9 eps (which I know rumors have said would be in November). I agree that they are most likely still happening, though it's definitely something to keep an eye out for more context. Trailblazer101 (talk) 19:35, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

First and second seasons?

Currently, this article refers to the episode count as two halves of nine each. However, recently at D23, Kevin Feige has referred to the first 9 episodes as "season one". Should we update this for this article as well as for the info of the series at the Marvel Cinematic Universe: Phase Five article? AxGRvS (talk) 21:13, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

This has already been raised above in #Is this really a miniseries? - adamstom97 (talk) 08:31, 12 August 2024 (UTC)