Talk:Danishmendids

confused list of rulers

Definitely some confusion on this list, as compared with the linked rulers' pages [[1]] and [[2]] and [[3]] and what Britannica says. It isn't clear whether one person ruled from 1084-1134 or two: Gazi Gümüshtigin and Emir Gazi. See https://www.britannica.com/topic/Danishmend-dynasty. Hopefully someone can clear this up! Further info added: A good source is here: https://archive.org/details/danishmendids-ei/page/n1/mode/1up . The confusion on the list appears to be that the first two rulers are in fact the same person (as stated on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danishmend_Gazi Danishmend Gazi was also known as Gümüshtigin), and Danishmend Gazi's death date is incorrect. The list should be: Danishmend Gazi: 1075-1104 Emir Gazi: 1104-1134 Melik Mehmed Gazi: 1134-1142

The Gazi Gümüshtigin page is confused, perhaps based on the Turkish TV series the editor cited, Diriliş:_Ertuğrul. It should probably just be deleted. (I will try to do some of these edits but I'm not handy with editing Wikipedia, as you can probably tell!) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 23.16.134.46 (talk) 22:39, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

Danishmend

What is beginning date of Danishmend Gazi's reign? 1071 (as written in the infobox) or 1097 (as written in the dynasty timeline ? Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 16:23, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

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Georgian?

@Georgiano: The source you usedfor the Georgian claim is outdated. Furthermore, you didn't add a page number. The vast majority of WP:RS sources consider the Danishmends to be Turkomans/Oghuz Turks.

• "Amir Ḡāzī Taylu Gümüš-tigin Aḥmad (or Moḥammad) Dānešmand (d. 498/1104), founder of a Turkman dynasty in northern Cappadocia toward the end of the 11th century." -- Tahsin Yazici (1993). "DĀNEŠMAND". Encyclopaedia Iranica Vol. VI, Fasc. 6, pp. 654-655
• "His death in 1092 marked the end of Seljuk unity. The Seljuks of Anatolia now ruled autonomously and faced on their territory the rivalry of another Turkish family, the Danishmends. In Iraq and Iran, Malikhāh's sons contended for power, while in Syria-Palestine power was divided among Malikshāh's nephews and several Turkish emirs." -- Anne-Marie Eddé (2002). Seljuks in André Vauchez. Oxford Encyclopedia of the Middle Ages. Oxford University Press
• "Emperor Alexios maintained his claim to Antioch and felt that Bohemond had cheated him. Bohemond himself was captured in 1100 in battle against the Danishmend Turks" -- Nicholas Morton (2010). Crusades, in Clifford J. Rogers The Oxford Encyclopedia of Medieval Warfare and Military Technology . Oxford University Press p. 466
• "Danishmend, a Turkoman emir of impenetrably obscure origins, controlled key towns and roads in the northern and eastern Anatolia. If one was to judge from the evidence of the Danishmendname, one would have to regard the Danishmend (...)" -- Jace Stuckey. (2016). The Eastern Mediterranean Frontier of Latin Christendom Routledge. p. 304

Do you have any RS sources that prove a Georgian origin? Best, - LouisAragon (talk) 18:04, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

According to Suren Yeremian, Danishmand was the Armeno-Georgian Hrahat/Rat Orbelean/Liparitean. Danishmand's contemporary, Matthew of Edessa followed by the 13th century Vardan Areveltsi mentions about Danishmand's Armenian origin too.Georgiano (talk) 18:55, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

Origins of Liparitids are disputed. In fact during Seljuk invasions they were prominent noble family from Iberian/Georgian lands.Georgiano (talk) 19:04, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

@Georgiano: Thank you for your reply. I was able to pinpoint the corresponding page in Bedrosian's The Turco-Mongol Invasions and the Lords of Armenia in the 13th-14th Centuries (p. 85). Bedrosian cites Eremyan and a certain Halil Yinanc for the claim. I will rewrite the section per WP:DUE and WP:VER. - LouisAragon (talk) 21:12, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

References

Requested move 7 February 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved as requested per the discussion below. The only evidence presented over the two weeks supported the move. Dekimasuよ! 19:45, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

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Danishmends → Danishmendids – Jstor search: "Danishmends" gets 17 hits, "Danishmendids" gets 50. The suffix "-ids" is more appropriate, as it more clearly implies an actual dynasty (cf. other Anatolian Beyliks/Turkmen Beyliks: Artuqids, Saltukids, etc.). Especially as the word "Danishmend/Daneshmand" is a noun with a different meaning, and can easily be confused with "Danishmends". "Danishmendids" is used by numerous high-quality sources, including the Encyclopedia of Islam[4] and Islamic Desk Reference.[5] - LouisAragon (talk) 19:18, 7 February 2019 (UTC) --Relisting. SITH (talk) 22:11, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose. I'm pretty sure the WP:COMMONNAME is still Danishmends. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:38, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

@Necrothesp: Can you prove it? - LouisAragon (talk) 17:58, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

• Support per nom. Srnec (talk) 23:43, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.