Talk:Danish Siddiqui

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Full name

"Ahmad Danish Siddiqui was born on May 19, 1983." (Siddiqui, Danish. "Reuters photographer Danish Siddiqui captured the people behind the story". The Wider Image. Retrieved 2021-07-17.) Thus "Ahmed Danish Siddiqui" is his full name. --ZemanZorg (talk) 19:38, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

@ZemanZorg: Since most sources say "Danish Siddiqui", that's what we should use in the article. You can include Ahmad in the personal life section. For example, in the personal life section, you could start with "Ahmad Danish Siddiqui was born in ...". --RegentsPark (comment) 20:03, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

Birth place

"A native of New Delhi, Siddiqui, 38, is survived by his wife Rike and two young children." (Siddiqui, Danish. "Reuters photographer Danish Siddiqui captured the people behind the story". The Wider Image. Retrieved 2021-07-17.) "A native of New Delhi" means that he was born in New Delhi. --ZemanZorg (talk) 19:38, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

Death

WP:NEWSOPED and WP:WEIGHT are the relevant policies. Please wait for confirmation by major news agencies. TrangaBellam (talk) 08:10, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

See note b in current version of the article. TrangaBellam (talk) 08:41, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

I have reinstated my version. Research Fellows of think-tanks often publish their research in op-eds. We don't undermine them for that. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 10:47, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

Kautilya3, sure. Restored to body.

News Laundry thought the antecedents of M. Rubin to be mention-able in the context of these claims. This is not a violation of synthesis policies and you need to justify your exclusions.

Rubin's entire story is themed on how US Govt. covered-up (vide White House spin) the actual story. Strange that you find it to be unworthy of mention. You cannot divorce Rubin from the politics that plays out in USA. TrangaBellam (talk) 12:46, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

You saw the NL report. You saw Rubin's report.

Days back, another narrative by a Cdr. Bilal Ahmed claimed that Siddiqui's head was crushed by a car. A head-crushed-by-car has more than injuries and it would have been easily spotted by Rubin. So either Rubin or Bilal must be believed. Some unnamed Special Force Personnel (who claimed to operate near Siddiqui) earlier told BBC (~two weeks back) that Taliban had sprayed bullets recklessly out-of-nowhere and Siddiqui, who was interviewing local shopkeepers, got killed.

All of them agree that Siddiqui was intentionally murdered by Taliban (which I am persuaded to believe) but the precise circumstances are quite different. If one is true, highly unlikely that the others are true. And, it is not quite brainstorming to figure out the cause of these massive discrepancies. TrangaBellam (talk) 13:10, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

These kind of contradictions are very common in murder cases, especially in war zones. Scores of Indian newspapers found Rubin's account credible and covered it. So we cover it too.

Newslaundry is a fact-checking website. It matters to them whether the sources are named or not. It doesn't matter to us. (Practically the entire content of the 2020 China-India skirmishes is based on unnamed sources. It is a war zone there. International politics and diplomacy come into play. It wasn't a neighbourhood murder. Nobody will come forward to give you on-the-record statements.) When we provide an attributed statement, we are not taking any responsibility for its accuracy. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 18:49, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

2020 China-India skirmishes is not equivalent to the war-time murder of Siddiqui. Nobody will come forward to give you on-the-record statements is demonstrably false in light of the NL report.

See this. Nobody is asking Rubin to sketch a public portrait of his "sources" but when one uses terms like local investigation to bolster a narrative using argument from authority, they can usually bother to state the bare minimum. Whether its the military or civilian police or xyz, running it.

Indian news portals run anything that fetches a few more web-hits than usual. I think you know that. TrangaBellam (talk) 19:10, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

It is not news portals. It was a PTI story and practically every newspaper in India printed it. Some rewrote it, and some just syndicated it. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 20:33, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

Kautilya3, we have NYT stating:

There are conflicting reports about what happened on July 16, as the Afghan special forces with whom Mr. Siddiqui was traveling tried to retake Spin Boldak.

Accounts from local officials, as well as Taliban members, suggest that Mr. Siddiqui and the Afghan unit’s commander were killed in a crossfire when their convoy was ambushed from multiple directions. Their bodies were left on the battlefield as the rest of the unit retreated, according to this version of events.

Some news outlets reported that Mr. Siddiqui might have been captured alive by the Taliban and then executed. Those reports could not be confirmed.

If you believe that Rubin has better ground-sources than NYT, well ... TrangaBellam (talk) 19:31, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

Well, he did! He broke the news before the NYT bothered. Now, NYT is telling what everybody already knows! -- Kautilya3 (talk) 20:52, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

In that case, Newslaundry shall be the first one to get credit.

These photos of mutilated body have been circulating inside journalist groups since long (even made it to Twitter ) and different news-organizations have been hunting for the specifics. Rubin broke it to take digs at the incumbent US Govt and added a background story, which most believe to be bunkum.

The rest is a matter of perception. TrangaBellam (talk) 06:38, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

Yes, in a manner of speaking. Newslaundry is not a news organisation and Ruchi Kumar is not their reporter. They ended up publishing her report, presumably because nobody else was willing to do it. The "Establishment" doesn't want the facts to be known. But the truth has a way of coming out. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 12:00, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

Awards and honors

Both shall be sourced to secondary sources. TrangaBellam (talk) 19:18, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

Modi

But the loudest response was the silence of India’s Twitter-savvy Prime Minister Narendra Modi and some of his supporters took that as a signal to besmirch Siddiqui’s work and life....Modi’s fans began trolling Siddiqui online for filming the pyres, and when he was killed attributed his death to bad karma, suggesting that he deserved to be shot dead. One of the most offensive tweets juxtaposed Siddiqui’s image of a packed crematorium with his own bullet-ridden body. This didn’t come from any fringe element but a member of Vishva Hindu Parishad, a right-wing Hindu organization allied with Modi’s Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party....
— Vohra, Anchal (2021-07-23). "Modi Rejected an Indian Hero". Foreign Policy. Retrieved 2021-07-31.

TrangaBellam (talk) 12:22, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

regarding this edit by User:KyloRen3, edit-summary No source mentions that BJP supporters celebrated his death: why were the sources replaced? Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 12:34, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing it out, I have restored a combination of both versions.  Kylo Ren III  (talk ☎️) 12:38, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

Should not be mixed with official statements in the "Reactions" section which is meant for government positions/reactions. And "extremists" should not be used per WP:EXTREMIST. Gotitbro (talk) 20:28, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Have updated it.  Kylo Ren III  (talk ☎️) 04:45, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

Reuters Investigation

The most detailed report, to be yet produced on the circumstances of death/murdee of Siddiqui, is here. Time to put it to use. Cc:Kautilya3 TrangaBellam (talk) 22:05, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

This rejects much of Rubin's reconstruction but can be made to fit in the overall framework of murder.

I guess he was fatally injured (mistook as dead by the driver) and did not make to the retreating convoy. The rest didn't even bother. Obviously, that the Afghan Army was incompetent didn't help.

The Taliban captured and dragged him along their chase, elated at the prospect of an Indian victim. Thus, the signal. He might have been murdered at the destination if not already dead by the journey: close bullet wounds as reported by NYT might be tools of murder or tools of desecration. Other desecration followed thereafter.

I am curious at why Reuters chose to not cover the forensic images unlike NYT. They (as of yet) have apparently failed to independently confirm desecration. Siddiqui's family has also claimed of (murder and) desecration.

Before someone jumps at me, this original research does not belong at the article. TrangaBellam (talk) 22:28, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

Reuters is an involved party. It is not qualified to provide any negative evidence. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 00:46, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

Huh? TrangaBellam (talk) 03:37, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

Reuters is the employer of Siddiqui and has been accused of deploying him in an unreasonable danger zone, even after he got injured. Reuters has an obious interest in making his death look as dignified as possible. What it says of the manner of his death is not of much value.

By the way, Reuters has just corroborated a key part of Rubin's story, viz., that he was killed in a mosque, not from crossfire in an ambush. Reuters has confirmed that the last contact with Siddiqui was when he was "sheltering in a mosque". -- Kautilya3 (talk) 10:39, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

The name of the location was "Shanaki petrol station and mosque complex" (31°04′01″N 66°20′55″E). Fancy name, but it could be just a petrol station with an attached mosque on the side. After the Afghan forces retreated, the Taliban appear to have crossed their own roadblock, made enquiries at the petrol station and discovered that Siddiqui and his Special Force escort were in the mosque. All of the escort was killed, and according to Rubin, Siddiqui was captured alive. It took 18 minutes for all this to happen (7:41 to 7:59). His tracking signal was cut off at 9:06 and by 10 am, pictures of his dead body were put out on social media. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 13:29, 25 August 2021 (UTC)