Talk:Dachau concentration camp/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

No gassings or mass murdering in Dachau according to authorities

It would be asinine not to include the following and alas needed addition to the article about Dachau concentration camp. That no "gassings" or killings of jews or any other people in "bathrooms" were ever conducted in Dachau, the first and one of the biggest concentration camps in Germany under WWII.

Official Dachau Museum authorities. https://www.kz-gedenkstaette-dachau.de/1945.html

The museum authorities in Dachau has a sign saying in 5 languages to the visitors: "GAS CHAMBER disguised as a "shower room" - never used as a gas chamber" Picture:http://www.scrapbookpages.com/DachauScrapbook/Photos2001/DachauE019.jpg

"The german government just paid back, in 2010, for World War One (WWI), and they have never paid a dime for the "holocaust" of jews in WWII, but paid big reparations for material damage to all the affected countries in Europe. AFter WWII Germany's immaterial rights (patents, copyrights, businesses etc.) are the allieds property untill 2099.

And their data is from the IMT, International Military Tribunal (31-8741)."

If the above is from the official source, then it should be as a minimum stated with a few lines in the article.

Edit:

I just saw you already use the above as a source for this article.

The same source states:

10,000 Jewish prisoners are killed "through work" in subsidiary camps At the end of 1944, over 63,000 prisoners are in the Dachau concentration camp and its subsidiary camps: The catastrophic living conditions lead to the outbreak of a typhus epidemic 1945 Unconditional surrender (May 8, 1945), occupation and division of Germany Thousands die of typhus, in the course of evacuation marches or as a result of malnutrition Founding of an International Prisoner Committee (CID) Liberation of the camp by US Army troops (April 29, 1945)

So if you, the authors of this article, put the official authority of Dachau concentration camps website as a source, you have evenly implied the rightfulness of the deaths of thousands of prisoners in the hands of the "liberators", the US Army Troops. I dont think anybody doubts the fact that what has happened, death by typhus and the americans overtaking of the camp led to large amount of deaths (and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dachau_liberation_reprisals), but it should at least be stated in the article so its factual and not a propaganda article hiding the truth. Propaganda or the hiding of the truth will be received illy by the future generations. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.191.185.197 (talk) 15:23, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

Approximately 10,000 of the 30,000 prisoners were sick at the time of liberation. Steve Pastor (talk) 17:02, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

Your link and source is faulty (not loading). And yes some were without a doubt, sick of typhus that had spread across Europe (read about it on Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epidemic_typhus). Theres even signs saying "Dust spreads TYPHUS - 5 mph", look it up yourself or see: http://www.bergenbelsen.co.uk/pages/Camp%20Development/ASP/CampAreas/DevelopmentCampAreaPhotographs1945_1949.asp?CampAreaID=29&index=24 Which was the Bergen-Belsen concentration camp or just known as "Belsen camp".

From 1929 the United States Public Health Service used Zyklon B to disinfect freight trains and clothes of Mexican immigrants entering the United States.[15] Uses in Germany included delousing clothing (often using a portable sealed chamber invented by Degesch in the 1930s) and disinfecting ships, warehouses, and trains.[16] From Wikipedia, Zyklon B: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zyklon_B The american people used Zyklon B to disinfect Mexican Immigrants from 1929 "All americans are MONSTERS and all are doing holocausts". Is the same kind of logic that is being seen unfortunately by some wildly asinine editors on this secular forum, Wikipedia, that, with a really good goal though - search for the truth, but unfortunately have had a hard time coping with facts and truth.

If you read, even on Wikipedia, you'll see how the allied invited whole villages in to look at dead people in the camps, to spread propaganda, since, according to the IMT (31-8741), International Military Tribunal, haven't found any victims dead by Zyklon B or any other gas.

Think, open your eyes! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.191.185.197 (talk) 17:50, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

https://web.archive.org/web/20141103035153/http://abraham.cs.uml.edu/secretwar/GlobeSecretHistory/index5_transcript_4.shtml |title= HEADQUARTERS SEVENTH ARMY OFFICE OF THE CHIEF OF STAFF APO TSS, C/O POSTMASTER NEW YORK, NY 2 May 1945 MEMORANDUM TO: Inspector General, Seventh Army The Coming General directs that you conduct a formal investigation of alleged mistreatment of German guards at the Concentration Camp at Dachau, Germany, by elements of the XV Corps. A. WHITE Major General, G.S.C. Chief of Staff Testimony of: Capt. Richard F. Taylor 0-408680, Military Government, Detachment I-13, G-3 |date= |accessdate=3 June 2016

The current article does not state that the "gas chamber" in the crematorium building was ever used to execute people. That happened at Hartheim Castle. "Mass execution" does not occur in the article, either. Although there were mass graves associated with trains carrying prisoners, the pre liberation death march, and the execution of 4,0000 Soviet prisoners. Steve Pastor (talk) 17:06, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

References

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Insufficient citation

Notes [102] and [103] refer desolately to Klee, Kulturlexikon, S.227 and S.232 respectively, where "S." is for "Seite" (page in German). Some more information should be added, most likely: Klee, Ernst. (2007). Das Kulturlexikon zum Dritten Reich: Wer war was vor und nach 1945. Frankfurt am Main: S. Fischer. ISBN 978-3-10-039326-5. Is someone able to check? Carlotm (talk) 20:40, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

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I was disappointed in my search for information

This article is a big laundry list of awful things the Nazis did; good, it's important to preserve the memory. But it's weaker on chronological history and neutral facts. (one example I saw, "on arrival to the camp we were stripped naked" ok, that's awful, but you were given prison uniforms after that, right? how quickly? prison camp uniforms are dehumanizing in their own way, but walking around naked would also be dehumanizing, and was it men and women together? the article doesn't tell us what happened, too many factoids not enough recounted narrative context) So, anyway, what I came looking for, I did not find. I read in a NYTimes article that "Bruno Bettelheim...arrived [in US] in 1939 after a year in Dachau and Buchenwald"... "wait, what?" I thought: In the early days of the camps, were people going in and coming out something like an ordinary prison sentence, or did he escape, or was he a minor cause celebre and got special treatment? There is no information like that in this article. The article is not even clear on whether Jews were among the first inmates (for being Jews) or not. I'm going to read the Bettelheim article now, but if it has specifics, that will probably not contain context either. 172.56.28.214 (talk) 21:33, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

Since I raised the question in this Talk page, I'll put in what a little further wikiresearch (Bettelheim's page and Final Solution) turned up. Bettelheim got out of Buchenwald on an amnesty for Hitler's 1939 birthday(!wow) that released a fair number of prisoners. At that time, killing of Jews (and Gypsies and others) was not yet a part of the various "Nazi solutions", which at the time was focused on encouraging emigration, deportation and incarceration, rounding up the "enemies of the german people". So, for instance, calling Bettelheim a "survivor" of Dachau or the Holocaust isn't entirely an accurate statement, though as part of the larger picture of "Jewish population before and after" it would make sense. 172.56.28.214 (talk) 21:57, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

Theodor Eicke ? , the Jehovas' Whitnesses issue

First Theodor Eicke must be mentioned here, as the first permanent camp-leader. Jehova's Whitness want's to create an image of themselves as victims of the Nazists, this might be true - however this had NOTHING to do with their creed. Apart from one single matter. They refused to carry arms, hence male were male JWs put in camps as Dachau. The same applied to Catholics, Lutherans or whatever (except Jews). There is no real call for the mentioning of JWs - "men who refused to carry arms" cover also JW. Boeing720 (talk) 00:57, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

transported to another place to be gassed?

If there was a gas chamber at Dachau, why would they need to transport prisoners to another camp? And do they ever explain why they built a gas chamber there, but never used it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2606:A000:4A88:6F00:4C51:21C3:C325:2CEA (talk) 23:39, 21 January 2017 (UTC) the nazis were very racist and dint allow any jews in dachau gas chambers — Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.1.70.128 (talk) 21:47, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

No mention of the gas chamber?

Why is there no mention at all about Barracke X, which contained a gas chamber but one that did not end up seeing use? We have documentation that it was being built in mid 1942 (see Dr. Rascher's letter to Himmler about suggesting combat gases be used on transports of people deemed unfit for labor that end up in such chambers anyway like the one at Linz [Hartheim]" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:8388:501:2700:71E4:75DE:11A9:E465 (talk) 16:58, 4 March 2018 (UTC) Hello, I added a citation to your article. Hope it was helpful.Katiecacw (talk) 01:31, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

The article as it stands is confusing. I understand if there is a reluctance to let the article be twisted for political purposes, but this needs to be fixed. As it is now, I simply could not find the information I was looking for.

Split List of prisoners of Dachau

The article is getting quite long and the list is substantial enough to merit a separate article. Catrìona (talk) 14:21, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

• Survivors liberation dachau.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 11:52, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

"Dakow" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Dakow. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 July 23#Dakow until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. (t · c) buidhe 01:48, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

Dachau inspired other camps

After Dachau was setup in 1933, other dictatorships setup camps modeled after it. For example, the Polish Bereza Kartuska concentration camp was setup in 1934 modeled after the Nazi camp. Can this be added to this page somewhere? Carpathian fox (talk) 08:12, 26 September 2020 (UTC)

I would expect more explicit sources before it would be WP:DUE to include. It is unclear from the sources presented whether the camps were similar, or whether they are claiming a direct inspiration. (t · c) buidhe 08:18, 26 September 2020 (UTC)

German Nazi concentration camp

the first soldier to liberated the camp is the legendary Disney songwriter Robert Sherman. It is not enough to write that it was Nazi camp. It must be written: GERMAN Nazi concentration camp. The future generations must know the truth. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.192.195.253 (talk) 04:15, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

I think the picture labled "A gas chamber at Dachau. The "Brausebad" sign means “Shower Bath” " should be removed.

This article has a picture labeled "A gas chamber at Dachau. The "Brausebad" sign means “Shower Bath”."

The problem is the article itself states that Dachau was a concentration camp not a death camp. This article also states that " It is claimed that in 1942, more than 3,166 prisoners in weakened condition were transported to Hartheim Castle near Linz, and were executed by poison gas because they were deemed unfit." So while prisoners were being gassed at Hartheim castle it does not appear that Dachau itself had the facilities to administer poison gas using a shower.

These articles at Yad Vashem are about Dachau. Both only use the term concentration camp, as opposed to death camp. Neither references gas chambers.

https://www.yadvashem.org/holocaust/about/camps/labor-concentration-camps.html https://www.yadvashem.org/odot_pdf/Microsoft%20Word%20-%206242.pdf

I could not find any first rate source that documented gas chambers at Dachau. Geo8rge (talk) 16:59, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

Black typhus vs typhus

In the “After Liberation” section, it erroneously states that there was a breakout of black typhus instead of typhus. Black typhus was not encountered until 1959 (https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/pharmacology-toxicology-and-pharmaceutical-science/bolivian-hemorrhagic-fever) Villagemarket (talk) 03:26, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Operation Barbarossa

In the Operation Barbarossa section relating to the shooting of Soviet prisoners “These murders were a clear violation of the provisions laid down in the Geneva Convention for prisoners of war.”. Although this is true, the context is misleading as the Soviet Union had not signed the Geneva convention and therefore were not protected by it’s provisions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by WW2HistoryDetective (talk • contribs) 10:03, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

Base Map error

Germany was not so big (yet), as illustrated in the base-source map of 1937 that is on display.--Mark v1.0 (talk) 15:04, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

Okay, I am wrong. Looked at some other maps that confirm this map size of 1937 is probably correct.--Mark v1.0 (talk) 15:11, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

Nohra instead of Dachau is the first Nazi concentration camp?

See https://www.mdr.de/geschichte/ns-zeit/politik-gesellschaft/nazis-thueringen-weimar-nohra-erstes-konzentrationslager-flugplatz-weimar-kommunisten100.html stating Nohra opened in 1933 March 3rd. Also, the Nohra concentration camp article states Nohra is the first. Vctrbarbieri (talk) 12:09, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

Crematoria

Crematoria were constructed to dispose of the deceased.

I toured Dachau around 1998 or so. The person giving the tour mentioned that the crematoria here were never used. I find this odd, as thousands died here. So how were the dead handled, and is this a true statement?

If this is true, I think maybe it might be worth mentioning in the article, just because of the seemingly anomalous nature of this claim. 24.51.192.49 (talk) 02:41, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

After liberation

Hello, I do not have the clout, but it would be nice if someone would incorporate the work of Harold Marcuse into the After liberation section (Legacies of Dachau, 2008). According to Marcuse, the camp was designated "War Crimes Enclosure #1" as of early July 1945 (pp. 68-69). This is much earlier than the October date mentioned in the entry, although what is said in the entry is not inconsistent with the information from Marcuse.

Please see also the citations in the text reproduced here from the 47th Infantry Regiment page. The citations are available in the article at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/47th_Infantry_Regiment_(United_States).

Part of the Regiment's postwar occupation duty included a stint at the Dachau Concentration Camp.[56][57][58][59][60][35] Elements of the 47th were assigned guard and administrative duty from July, 1945. [56][59][57] By this time Dachau had been converted to its postwar use as an internment camp that would house former SS, Nazi functionaries, and officers of the German army.[61]

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:4041:524C:3600:8C4A:45B9:C297:D32 (talk) 21:45, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 3 July 2023

Remove the "360° interactive Panorama of the interior of Theatinerkirche (Flash)" from the external links, since it's dead. Bonifaciosegundo (talk) 19:44, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

@Bonifaciosegundo: Sorry if I'm maybe looking in the wrong place, but I can't seem to find that link anywhere. Nobody has edited the article since you posted this request (at time of writing) - could you copy the entire link from the article (with the date, etc.), or alternatively specify in some other way which link you mean? Tollens (talk) 22:59, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

Sorry for the confusion. I had too many open tabs and made a mistake. The article where I meant to post the discussion was this one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theatine_Church,_Munich Bonifaciosegundo (talk) 18:25, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

Death count

Wikipedia's article says "There were 32,000 documented deaths at the camp, and thousands that are undocumented" and its reference says it was "Retrieved 20 September 2013". The Concentration Camp's official site currently says "41.500 were murdered". I think the article could be updated with the latest numbers. Bonifaciosegundo (talk) 08:34, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

The article was updated. I think we can close this discussion. Bonifaciosegundo (talk) 07:10, 6 July 2023 (UTC)