Talk:Czech koruna

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Czech Corona 24.35.163.179 (talk) 17:01, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

Request for comment

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Should the Czech currency be referred to as the "crown" or the "koruna", and should its subunit be dubbed the "haléř" or "heller"? Please indicate your choice by bolding your preferred nomenclature. NotReallySoroka (talk) 19:56, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

• Koruna and heller. The Wikipedia article on the Czech currency has long used "koruna" and "haléř" (with plurals as appropriate), until TheCurrencyGuy changed it to "crown" and "heller" on 6 August. The given edit summary was:

The Czech National Bank considers "crown" to be the currency's official name in English, and further "Czech crown" returns more results than "Czech koruna" on Google. Thus have retained the currency sign and *references* to the name in Czech, but have otherwise altered the terminology to the English versions for the benefit of readers.

However, I disagree with TCG on multiple facets. Firstly, TCG argues that the CNB considers "crown" as official is refuted by several CNB webpages, citing Although TCG cited a presentation where "crown" is indeed used. However, I argue that the presentation, by itself, does not mean that the CNB prefers "crown". Firstly, [1] reads "...to prevent excessive fluctuations of the koruna exchange rate", not "...the crown exchange rate". Secondly, a CNB website celebrates 100 years of the koruna, not the crown. Lastly, Article 13 of a CNB translation of Czech legislature uses "koruna (crown)", a symbol of Kč for the crown, and "heller". Granted, the word "crown" is used in some CNB webpages, but "koruna" is either used at more prominent places, or appears primary to "crown".

Second, TCG's proposition that "Czech crown" returns more Google results is false, and even if it were true, it would be a weak support of "crown" over "koruna". From my end, "Czech crown" returned 244000 results, and "Czech koruna" 14 million. Meanwhile, a Google search for CZK (to avoid using either "crown" or "koruna" as a search term) shows that the ECB, Bloomberg, and Forbes all use "koruna".

Lastly, changing the terminology to English does not serve "the benefit of readers"; rather, it is a disruption of the page since it is done without consensus. Such a change, so widespread in the article, should not have been done so boldly; yet TCG decided to unilaterally change everything. Therefore, I hope that we would have a clearer consensus this time. Thank you. NotReallySoroka (talk) 19:57, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

Edited comment for clarity. NotReallySoroka (talk) 20:04, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

Koruna and haléř. USEENGLISH is a bit antiquated and overrused in my opinion, I'd rather go with the most universally used terms. Ortizesp (talk) 00:23, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

• Weak support koruna. In my limited experience koruna is more common in English than crown, though interestingly Ngrams doesn't show a clear preference for either. I sampled a few websites somewhat randomly and found koruna, crown, koruna, koruna, koruna. No opinion on the subunit. —Mx. Granger (talk · contribs) 10:18, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

Koruna. Using the word "crown" to refer to currency could be potentially confusing, whereas "koruna" makes it clear that the article is about currency and not headwear. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 12:28, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

Comment I object to us taking the line that The Czech National Bank regards "crown" as the currency's official English name with one powerpoint presentation as a source, which says nothing about "official names", especially since it's easy enough to find ČNB publications written in English which use "koruna" such as 1 2 3. I would prefer the article to remain at koruna as that appears to be more common on economic/financial sites, "crown" should definitely be mentioned in the first sentence though. Anyone using google hits should bear in mind that "Czech crown" has another meaning unrelated to currency. No preference on the h. – filelakeshoe (t / c) 🐱 14:50, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

@Filelakeshoe: Should the text of the article also be changed to refer to the "koruna" instead of the "crown"? NotReallySoroka (talk) 02:31, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

Koruna - as per the various editors points above. To be honest I have never heard it referred to as a crown before. BogLogs (talk) 23:51, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

• Koruna and Heller. A455bcd9 (talk) 19:08, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
• Koruna. that is how is known by most people. Fad Ariff (talk) 13:18, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Second request for comment

Which of the following currency names should be used? Please bold your preferred nomenclature.

1. Austro-Hungarian "gulden" vs "florin"
2. Austro-Hungarian "crown" vs "krone"
3. Czechoslovak "crown" vs "koruna"

NotReallySoroka (talk) 08:31, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

General comments

• When I attempted to re-write Czech koruna in accordance with the RfC above, I realized that the person who originally changed "Czech koruna" to "Czech crown" has also changed the nomenclature for above three currencies. Therefore, I would like a new RfC on the nomenclature of these currencies. Thank you. NotReallySoroka (talk) 08:31, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
• By the way, I realized that opening a separate RM for the currencies would both be quicker (7 vs 30 days) and bother less fewer editors. Therefore, I will leave this RfC up until I have written the RMs, the close this RfC. Thank you, and my apologies for wasting your time. NotReallySoroka (talk) 01:07, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

  @Mathglot: Thank you for your participation in this RfC. Would you mind commenting on Talk:Austro-Hungarian florin and Talk:Austro-Hungarian crown instead, so that I can close this RfC and avoid having duplicate discussions? NotReallySoroka (talk) 09:04, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

• @Mathglot: May I close this RfC? NotReallySoroka (talk) 04:42, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

  @NotReallySoroka: As the initiator, you may withdraw it, by simply removing the Rfc header at the top. ("Closing" an Rfc is a different procedure, usually involving an assessment of the !votes, and boxing up the discussion so no one else replies to it; as a participant, you can't do that.) If you withdraw it, adding a "withdrawn" comment at the bottom is helpful. Mathglot (talk) 05:24, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

  @Mathglot: I closed it; please see my comment below. NotReallySoroka (talk) 09:33, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

• This request for comment is now closed to avoid discussion forks. Please consider participating in the requested move for the florin and crown instead. Thanks, NotReallySoroka (talk) 09:33, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

Survey (gulden v. florin)

• I favour the stable terminology of gulden. Austria-Hungary is no longer around to answer my question on whether "gulden" or "florin" is preferred; therefore, if even Ngram was inconclusive, the stable terminology should be retained. NotReallySoroka (talk) 08:31, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
• Undecided for now; results of several searches are unclear, with results being fairly sensitive to search keywords, and date restrictions. A search in books shows that both gulden and florin are in use, but gulden seems to be used more often. A similar search at Scholar tends more towards florin, but if you restrict the results to the last 30 years, then it's more even.
  On the other hand, if you switch the search to "Austro-Hungarian" (the adjectival form may be more common), then a different pattern appears, which is more heavily weighted towards florin, as in this Scholar search, where florin is the clear leader. More searches should be attempted, with careful attention to query formulation and interpretation, and date-based or other search refinements. If florin doesn't turn out to be the clear winner, then gulden should be retained based on prior usage. Mathglot (talk) 23:52, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

Survey (A-H crown v. krone)

• I express a weak support for the previous terminology, krone. Although I distinctly remember "crown" being used more than "krone" on Ngrams, our enduring usage of "krone" should mean that "krone" is actually the stable terminology. NotReallySoroka (talk) 08:31, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
• Crowns, this is the only one of the three surveys that yields a clear result, from what I can see, sufficient to overturn a previous consensus (if there was one). For starters, the search keyword in English should be in the plural, as the singular crown yields invalid results due to polysemy. Starting with Books search with no time limit, we get a large preference for crowns. If we limit it to the last 30 years, it's about the same. If we search for Austro-Hungarian instead, we still get a preference for crowns although maybe a little less strong. If we switch to Scholar since 1992, then there's a significant preference for crowns, and with the search term Austro-Hungarian, then there's a very strong preference for it. Mathglot (talk) 01:43, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

Survey (Czechoslovak crown v. koruna)

• I strongly support using koruna for the Czechoslovak currency. If even our article on the Czechoslovak currency says "koruna", "crown" should simply be avoided at our Czech koruna article. NotReallySoroka (talk) 08:31, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
• Comment, The term crown is used more, except for the period 2001-2010; however, it's not a huge difference, and the absolute numbers are very small, so there's a question of significance. A slightly easier Ngrams to interpet is here. Might be better to check directly in Books, and also perform some Scholar searches (see the gulden/florin example). MtPenguinMonster made a good point in favor of koruna, based on non-ambiguity of the term. Mathglot (talk) 00:00, 26 December 2022 (UTC)