Talk:Cuthbert Mayne

"Cause of death"

On introducing "cause of death" into the summary sentence, I think we must be very careful.

1. I had written the introductory sentence carefully, saying that he was a martyr and giving the dates and location, and that he was a link-forty martyrs-link member, precisely to avoid saying anything that would serve one petty political purpose or another.
2. Saying that the British crown killed Mayne is actually incorrect, as one may say that the English Church killed him, or one may say that the local see killed him, or one may say that the spy master did. Folding everything into "the crown" is a synecdoche that isn't going to clarify beyond the original language.
3. Saying "the British crown," in fact, allows for blaming, which is one thing we really ought to avoid.
4. Saying "English crown" would be no better, of course, so no permutations would help.
5. Specifying excessively to avoid these bits of banner waving could alleviate the blame, but at the cost of clarity. We could say, "Was killed because of the Papal Bull promising paradise to whomever assassinated the heretic rulers of England and the English response and over-zealous persecution of persons of individual faith, no matter their intentions or desires, and the grand conflation of the spiritual with the temporal," but we lose the man in the process.

Overall, I don't know why we need to say "why" he was killed in the opening sentence, when a martyr is, a priori, a person killed for his or her faith, and I reject any language that allows the small minded or clumsy prosecution of contemporary grief with the corpses of the saints. Geogre (talk) 11:10, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

new comments

St Cuthbert was not first ordained 'a Protestant Minister' but a priest according to the rites of the Church of England. He is also honoured and his feast day kept in Anglcan churches and there is a joint Anglical-Roman Catholic school in St Marychurch. A Roman Catholic Mass was celebrated in St Pweter's Anglican Parish Church in Barnstaple to mark his canonisation. He attended school in St Peter's churchyard.

Father Geoffrey Squire. Anglican Priest. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.43.105.107 (talk) 22:53, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

Saint Cuthbert Mayne.

As a priest in the Church of England I have just read the Wikipedia report on saint Cuthbert Mayne. The reason for my present interest is related to my involvement with ecumenical Youthfest 2015 in barnstaple. It will be centred on the (Anglican) Parish Church of St Peter and the surrounding streets. St Cuthbert was born here in North Devon and he was educated in a building within St peter's Church grounds and he would have attended that church. When he was canonized, the special Roman Catholic Pontifical Mass to mark the occasion took place in St Peter's with Anglicans and others present and assisting. I was instrumental in organising a joint Anglican-Roman catholic annual festival on his feast day after we had both offered mass in our churches in the morning. Stations of the cross are held jointly by both churches. there is an Anglican-roman Catholic school in Torquay. It is our delight that Roman Catholics and Anglicans see him as 'our' saint.

Imagine my sadness then when the Wikipedia article describes him as being ordained 'a Protestant minister'. We find that quite offensive as nowhere in our official formularies do we claim to be a protestant church. For the sake of ecumenical realations amnd our love of St Cuthbert, please alter those words.

Rev. Fr. Geoffrey squire. SSC. Anglican priest, — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.43.105.114 (talk) 02:35, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Unfortunately the words "protestant minister" are those of our source, in this case the Catholic Encyclopedia of 1913, and Wikipedia rules do not allow us to put our own words in. I imagine that he was ordained in the Anglican church, newly defined at the time by the Thirty-Nine Articles, but we can only say so if we (or you) find a reliable source that specifically says so. I have every sympathy with your distress - I was invited as a Mayne descendant to a ceremony on Tower Hill to mark his canonization- but within Wikipedia, we have to follow Wikipedia policies. Richard Keatinge (talk) 07:58, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

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