Talk:Currency symbol/Archive 1

Archive 1

Position of currency sign

From article: "When writing currency amounts the location of the sign varies by currency." I always thought this varied by language. Examples:

Swedish:
Det kostar 50,00 USD.
(Det kostar 50,00 $.)
Det kostar 50,00 kr.
Det kostar 50,00 €.
English:
This costs $50.00.
This costs SEK 50.00.
This costs €50.00.

For the same reason I do not believe there is a "defined placement of the euro sign by the european comission". I'll see if I can find such a thing. -Storpilot 19:07, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)

• As a data point, in Canadian French it is common to see the dollar sign following the amount, and the decimal written as a comma, to boot: 1,85$. I first noticed this in the late '80s and took it then as a recent innovation; it is politically important in Quebec that French be used prominently and obviously, so universal multilingual forms are disfavoured relative to unique specific ones. But I may be wrong, not having spent much time in Quebec, and it that may be cyncism on my part. It would be equally valid to say that the "$1.85" is uniquely English and even long usage in Quebec was nothing more than Anglo imperialist hegemony. Sharkford 18:49, 2005 Jun 8 (UTC)
• Doess anybody have any source, reference or information for "The standardized European default placement, used in absence of a national standard, is that (€) is placed before the amount." I believe this to be incorrect. As far as I am aware, the position of the currency sysmbol is language-dependent and neither the EU nor the ECB issed a default, language-independent standard. To decide on the positioning before the figure would be odd, since it has so many disadvantages compared to other notations. -- 82.21.200.32 10:42, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
  • I construe "many disadvantages" as the illogic (grammatically speaking) of leading with the currency symbol, and haven't noticed any others. I seem to recall that it arose with a specfic purpose, impeding the alteration of checks to a larger amount. (Or rather, since i presume the usage is not recent, alteration of the less formal financial instruments that preceded both modern checks -- MICR-encoded, prenumbered, specific to one bank, and machine sortable -- and those of the mid-20th century -- specific to one bank, with blanks in specific positions, and with the account number printed, but each blank check for your acct at that bank identical to every other one, since banks got bought essentially never.) If you write a check for "Two             " dollars to Joe Blow, he can alter it to read "Two Hundred", so the cautious write "Two---------  " or "Two and no/100" dollars. And similarly with the numerals version: You write "2$" and Mr. Blow can slip in a 9, "92$", but "$2---" or "$2.00--" also protects the leading end against slipping in another digit at each end. (And having more strokes than a typical character, BTW, a currency symbol is highly resistant to being changed into a digit.)
    --Jerzy•t 20:09, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
    

Stor, except your example is wrong: Swedes freq. employ SEK 50 too, and when I'm in Sweden, I write 50 kr. Similarly, it's ¥50 and 50元 in China. Swedes might very well write 50$, but international English generally tries to adjust for local variations. Otherwise, there would be no point to that section of the article: since this is the English wiki, it would simply prescribe always inserting the symbol at the front of the numbers (and not merely for that system's many advantages.) — LlywelynII 22:20, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Euro-cent uses a small c, not ¢

The symbol for a Euro-cent is a normal small "c". I have never seen the US symbol of a "c" with a line through it used for the sub-division of a Euro.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.238.139.18 (talk) 10:51, 2 February 2005

Head on: and you point towards the need for standardisation on writing c€, (like mg and kg), the number of digits, and on the other side of the spectrum k€ and M€ in this era of scaling-up. I wrote a paragraph on it here: Working on Agenda21-Chapter IV: Means of Implementation / Bringing money from the Low Carbon Economy transition to the citizen/consumer.--SvenAERTS (talk) 11:40, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

British middle dot-decimal point.

Should it be noted that in the United Kingdom, the middle dot (‘·’)is often used as the decimal point, and, according to the ‘Wikipedia’ article on the middle dot, the gov't recommended, initially, the middle dot to separte the pence from the pounds? Eg.: Bannanas £4·50 per bunch. Interpunct#In_mathematics_and_science Rob Del Monte 05:53, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

I waited about a day, and added it:

"The decimal point can also take local countries' standards. For instance, the United Kingdom often uses a middle dot as the decimal point (eg '£5·52')."

Though, I wanted to add about the comma, though I wasn't sure if I'd ever seen something like '4, 56€', or something. Is the comma used as the decimal point in prices in certain localites?Rob Del Monte 09:00 - :06, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

I added that commas can be used as the decimal separator, after seeing http://cgi.ebay.fr/Bordeaux-Superieur-2001-Cht-Les-Maurins-Recoltant_W0QQitemZ330042193083QQihZ014QQcategoryZ118099QQcmdZViewItem, I reasoned that wine couldn't be €1, 000, so I guessed that it was representing €10·00. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rob Del Monte (talk) 10:45, 25 January 2007

I remember, growing up in Australia in the 1970s and 80s, we used the middle dot as a decimal point in handwritten numbers. On a typewriter, the low dot was made to do double duty as a decimal separator and as a full stop. (Triple duty if you consider that it was already overloaded as a sentence ending and a mark of abbeviation.) Electronic calculator displays used a low dot even in those days, but I'm unsure if the reason was because of US usage or to emulate typewritten usage.

My mother worked as a government clerk in the 1960s; she told me they used a short, hyphen-like mid-dash as the decimal separator, e.g. "$10-89". The reason was that it was more visible than the mid-point for hand-written ledgers.

These days most Australians use low '.' even in handwriting - an example of manuscript emulating typescript, rather than the other way around. (Or maybe just copying the Americans, as in so many other parts of our culture.) Pelagic (talk) 05:50, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Symbol for pound and lira

The symbol for a British pound is a £ with either one or two bars in it, the same as you quote for the former Italian Lira. Keyboards and computer fonts usually have one bar, but either one or two are valid, or so I was taught at school in England. The derivation is a hand-written "L" from the latin "Libra" for pound, the same derivation as the Italian lira. This is also the derivation for abbreviation for the British pound weight, 1 lb. = 454 g. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.238.139.18 (talk) 10:51, 2 February 2005

• I read on the ‘Wikipedia’ article on the Pound sign that originally it was the ‘₤’ sign (with two bars), but that the Bank of England started using a single-barred ‘£’. So I’d reckon that ‘₤’ and ‘£’ are acceptable as the Sterling, but only ‘₤’, or just ‘L’ as the Lira. Pound sign. Rob Del Monte 05:56, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
• Pound sign article claims Italians only used the double-barred L, but that claim is unsourced and seems as specious as saying that Brazilians bother to use the cifrao (counterexample: the Central Bank of Brazil) or the cedi is distinct from the cent sign (if it is, the Ghanaian gov't has decided to employ the latter rather than the former...) — LlywelynII 22:25, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Symbols appear as squares

What updates are required for the symbols in question to be seen, as opposed to a simple square which internet explorer shows when the correct symbol is not installed? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.67.3.208 (talk) 16:18, 6 November 2005

• Unicode is what you need. Look around for it. I think Firefox has more built-in unicoe than explorer... but I may be completely wrong. ^one/_zero 02:37, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
• Here's a quick guide to get more characters to show in Firefox on Windows XP. KLP (talk) 15:13, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
• You already have Unicode, but you need fonts that support the extra encoding. You can look around on Unicode's official site or hunt around for Code2000, which is a font with lots and lots of odd characters. — LlywelynII 22:29, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Lines through currency symbols

I was recently pondering why so many world currency symbols are letters with a line (or two) through them. It is surely no coincidence that the dollar (S), pound (L), franc (F), yen (Y), euro (E), &c. all share this trait. Does anyone happen to know the history as to why this may be? If so, it may be worth a few words on the main article? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 147.114.226.173 (talk) 10:30, 13 December 2006 (UTC).

If I had to guess, I'd say is was most likely because it made them easy to print in the days before computerized typesetting. Ajhoughton 11:45, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

• Not a chance.

1. Typographical forms imitate handwritten forms, not the reverse.
2. If anything, that is more so with currency symbols, which are mostly used one-off: checks, contracts, receipts, calculations of total charge are true ephemera, created, read, perhaps stored until a promised action is completed or its completion becomes impossible, and either archived or destroyed, but hardly ever published until these days of mass stock ownership and nominal public accountability for government expenditures.
3. In any case, in what sense "easy to print"? Printer's type was cast from molds, not used to patch together overlapping marks by combining two impressions, nor soldering a bar onto a standard piece of type.
4. Typewriters could do the equivalent. (It seems to me ! was an overprint of . and ', and for a division symbol ÷, - and :; Euro typewriters had "dead" keys for diacritical marks: for é, you would type the accent first, which printed without the paper being moved on, then the e in same space -- and for the e the paper did move on, as normally. I might have seen c, backspace, / used for ¢ on some American typewriters. (Only the letter, number, and basic punctuation keys, but not symbols, were standardized -- in fact, i remember a portable on whose output l (lower-case L) and 1 were indistinguishable: because the number row began with 2! I'm not sure whether 0 (zero) differed from letter O.) But i'm sure $ was always there, bcz no typical typewriter had any | key (and i've never seen S combined with /). And i think o/o may have been a recognized form for % -- Hmm, does anyone still connect the left circle to the top of the diagonal with a roughly horizontal line? Only Batang, Blackadder, and Bradley, in A-C of my fonts, does so. -- and i'm pretty sure i recall building [ using /, backspace, _, roll the paper back down one line, _ again, and roll the paper up one line to the original vertical position.) But many of these monetary symbols were well established, in the relevant cultures, before the century that typewriters were used for.
5. Writing this just reminded me that there was a period of souped-up IBM Selectric typewriters, probably called compositors, for typesetting onto paper for subsequent photo-lithographic reproduction, and (probably overlapping in time) straight-to-film photocomposition? photocompositing? photo-typesetting?, before computer typesetting. And i expect there was a good complement of both positive and negative photoresists available, before batch processing of semiconductor electronic components began relying on them, so that we don't have to argue abt whether double exposing a character position with two different characters would (where that capability was desired) produce their union (rather than -- hmm, De Morgan's laws -- their intersection) in the final positives. (I also know that from knowing some guys working on a business plan for printing high-grade musical scores from film using xenon flash lamps to superimpose notes, sharps and flats, clefs, and so on, onto staffs and ledger lines, at the time when the competition was engraving all of that, i think by hand.) But that was even later than the typewriter, and i think already over in a much shorter time than ink-based typing remained an option, in the fully industrialized world, for anyone but a few aging writers.
   --Jerzy•t 10:40, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
   

• Think handwriting, and put yourself in the right frame of mind by thinking about the tail that converted J/j into a separate letter from I/i, or the "shelf" that made G separate from C. Think of the evolution from I and Q (for "interject..." and "quest..." -- i'm guessing specifically "interjectio" and "questio" meaning "I interject" and "I ask") into the distinctive ! and ?. Think of all the busy shit that gets tacked onto letters to remind readers of the pronunciation, and eventually gets turned into each language's system (usually uniform, despite the Scandinavians, Poles, and Vietnamese) of diacritical marks. Money is serious business, and you need to be damn sure that cents don't get mistaken for cups of mead, or librae of silver for librae of turnips, so you make them distinctive. The fact that the £, not a slashed P, is the symbol for pounds sterling makes it nearly certain that the Romans started the convention of a horizontal stroke distinguishing money from other things worth abbreviating, and they would have passed it along when they introduced the Latin alphabet and a lot of coin (if perhaps not the practice of coinage), into Western Europe. It would naturally extend to horizontally-slashed symbols for coins they never thot of, and probably ease the acceptance of the rarer vertical ones, like ¢ (which wouldn't BTW be very clear with a horizontal stroke, as it suggests E or ε too easily). $ is probably an exception, and its double-stroked version may have nothing to do with the monogram of U and S, since the single-stroked $, as a symbol for the peso, seems to have predated the US, initially P^s and thus, i presume, eventually a monogram of P and S, with the loop on the P finally abandoned just as a quarter of the circle in Q, and all but a remnant of its tail, disappeared from the ? mark.
  --Jerzy•t 10:40, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
  

• Re. Jerzy's point 4 about typewriters. My grandmother had an old portable like the one he describes. On her model there was defnitely no zero-0, you used capital-O instead. $ was overstruck S-back-/ or S-back-I (that's capital-s with capital-i). I can't remember whether there was a ₤/£ symbol (this was in Australia and the machine may have been British origin) or if you were supposed to overtype an L. It pre-dated decimal currency by many decades, so there would have been little use for a $ sign (except maybe international commerce with USA). And, yes, ! was composed of . with '.)

As far as I know, $ and £ pre-date the typewriter, and would have come from handwritten forms (I'd love to have some documentary evidence for this, but alas...). But ¥ as a symbol for yen probably post-dates the typewriter and was likely influenced by the US $. They may have considered typability Y+= when choosing it? Pelagic (talk) 06:35, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

• I think, but have no citation to prove, that most slashed currency signs were derived from the dollar sign, which was originally a slashed "8", indicating a so-called 'piece of eight', i.e. a larger coin divided into eight sections, and shortly thereafter a smaller coin worth 1/8th of the larger coin. But as I say, i have no cite for this. 129.42.208.186 (talk) 20:23, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
• Random guess not based on facts - it makes it easy to differentiate the currency symbol from any similar-looking letters.--V2Blast (talk) 19:48, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Does anybody know the origin of the one or two slashes in many of the currency symbols? As in: $, ₤, €, and so on. 12.78.57.98 15:11, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

This is a duplicate of a previous question on this page. I don't have a citation handy, but I'm sure it has to do with the fact that it made them easy to print in the days before computerized typesetting. Ajhoughton 11:47, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

I don't think so. The slashes have something to do with superstition - that man was forbidden to talk (and by extension: to write) about money, that doing so openly would bring bad luck etc. The matter reaches into the human psyche. Still looking for a proper citation. Actually, I'm looking for the designer of the euro symbol, €, because here is a very recent symbol, with the slashes. The designer must have been aware of the history. -- Iterator12n ^Talk 15:40, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Bwah! Pull the other one, mate. It has to do with not confusing the symbols with letters. As for the euro, apart from simple distinction, it's meant to represent "stability," not "awed silence before the great god Mammon." :) — LlywelynII 22:40, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

BTW, the two parallel lines"indicating the stability of the euro" seems a politician's a posteriori rationalization. -- Iterator12n ^Talk 16:19, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

That wasn't the politician's a posteriori rationalization: it was the designer's mission statement along with his proposal, prior to its acceptance. But you're right: they probably accepted his design because it comported with their desire not to talk about money, and they just forgot to mention it during their ad campaign and press releases at the time. — LlywelynII 22:40, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Currency map: Perhaps give a currency sign to Australia?

Rather than having a blank continent? Sad mouse 04:04, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

You mean on the map? [edits section heading.] Well, the map could certainly use an overhaul after the changes in the last four, five years. Feel free. — LlywelynII 22:45, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Currency map: Brazil

The currency sign used in Brazil is R$ and not the one shown on the map. R$ is the official currency sign, used in all financial and commercial transactions in the country. The use of the R$ symbol is mandatory as determined by Federal Law nº 9069 (Art. 1, §1)[1]. Therefore, I would suggest either correcting the map or taking it off the article as it displays misleading information.Limongi 01:24, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Your link doesn't provide any information about the law, and it seems doubtful everyone everywhere adds the extra letter even where there's no possibility of confusing it with a Yankee dollar. But if you've got another cite or want to update the map, please let us know. — LlywelynII 22:47, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Please add more currency signs

There are more currency signs and please add more!

Thank you for your cooperation.World Trade Center 18:23, 21 December 2007 (UTC)— Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.53.228.201 (talk) 10:22, 21 December 2007

I added some. — LlywelynII 22:48, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Is this true "Most currencies in the world have no specific symbol"?

While removing some garbage I noticed the above sentence in the first paragraph. Ist that really true? Lathspell (talk) 18:34, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Yes, in the general sense that most mimic a few designs or use letters and not unique unicode characters, but it's highly misleading. The way most people will understand it - most currencies lack a currency sign - is completely false. There are only a very, very few (which all have short names) that lack a sign. — LlywelynII 22:52, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Rupee sign: Rs or Rp?

I don't know if it's just me or if it happens to other people (I'm using Win XP and Firefox), but the symbol for the Rupee sometimes shows up as the really squished-looking Rs symbol (which seems to always show up in the Rupee article), and sometimes an Rp symbol. OzLawyer 22:12, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure what the complaint is here — you think the same character is being encoded differently in different fonts? or you're just noticing that the Indonesia rupiah is Rp? — LlywelynII 22:31, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Requesting the editors to update the new symbol for Rupee instead of either Rs or Rp — Preceding unsigned comment added by Skullbaron (talk • contribs) 12:17, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Bitcoin

Any thoughts on the inclusion of this sign. [2]. Bitcoin has only just made sufficient notability for an article via some general interest coverage in a few newspapers releted to Paypal not transfering money to wikileaks. As a currency there is almost none of it. This article probably should not be used to give undue WP:Weight to this. Polargeo (talk) 13:59, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Come to think of it. Has this currency sign ever been used in an WP:RS outside of bitcoin.org. In fact has it even been used there? Polargeo (talk) 14:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Did some Googling to see what hits I could find for various symbols that the article lists. The notoriety of the ⓑ sign seems up to par. If anything, we should probably scrap this entire article and leave currency symbols to their respective currency articles. KLP (talk) 14:50, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe, I'm willing to look into it. Polargeo (talk) 14:59, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Okay there is the fairly prominent xe.com [3]. That took about 10 seconds. Polargeo (talk) 15:01, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

I don't understand. XE is a currency symbol? — Preceding unsigned comment added by L3lackEyedAngels (talk • contribs) 15:07, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

No it is a widely recognised website for currency conversion. Polargeo (talk) 15:12, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Or [4] or [5]. I suppose I am challenging you to find a non-bitcoin.org reliable reference for the bitcoin currency symbol. Even an indication that you have not just made the symbol up yourself would be a start. Polargeo (talk) 15:12, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

I can only give you my word and a link depicting some consensus among bitcoin users. Why did you link to a book on Unicode? Like the ⓑ, I couldn't find the ₥ or the ৳ on any of the sites you listed. If the lists that exchange sites provide are the standard for this article, let's be consistent. That said, I don't find the inclusion of an exhaustive list in this article very useful. A handful of symbols representing different styles, like arabic, alphabetic, etc, should suffice. KLP (talk) 15:54, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

You are probably right but your answer suggests to me that including bitcoin in this list amoungst established currencies is undue and a little spammy. Polargeo (talk) 16:13, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

I never intended to create undue spam. I thought my addition kept within the bounds and standards of this article. If I thought wrong, I hope my mistake will spur the bold changes necessary to improve this article. KLP (talk) 16:41, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Okay. I understand. I am just looking at bitcoin as an exception but appreciate that certain other currencies may need more investigation as well Polargeo (talk) 16:47, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Of course, it shouldn't be included. Atm, airline miles are a more prevalent form of currency, and the idea of currency here isn't that broad in the first place. If it becomes an issue, we simply need to add the legalese from the List of circulating currencies lede at the head of the article or the currency list section.

Someone might add a misc. section at the end, though, or link to it via a See also line. — LlywelynII 22:58, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Speaking of, the edit I reverted does not refer to the symbol anywhere in the source, thus it cannot be used to substantiate that piece of information. MSJapan (talk) 23:03, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

yes it does, check the images in the first and last source for the symbol and the silkroad uses bitcoins--Sarah Nordic (talk) 07:24, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, but using an article citation to cite an image in that article (and none of the article content) is misuse of sources. MSJapan (talk) 15:39, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

Forks of the object of this discussion can be found at the following:

• Talk:Bitcoin#Remove_the_thai_baht_.28.E0.B8.BF.29_symbol_from_this_article.

The consensus was that the baht sign is tied to Bitcoin and can be cited as such in general use and commerce.--Hopkinsenior (talk) 10:44, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was moved. --BDD (talk) 23:58, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

Currency sign → Currency symbol – More accurate name for what precisely this article is describing, as well as the more common name. Google Books for "currency symbol" is 13,800, for "currency sign" it is 3,240. Google Scholar for "symbol" is 1,090, for "sign" is only 372. A Google Trends analysis shows the same gap in what people type into search. While it is true that some specific symbols are called "*** sign", such as dollar sign or pound sign (probably the reasoning when this article was first named), technically they are symbols. See how far you can read a "currency sign" article without finding the word "symbol". This is the word this very page uses in the table of "signs", and the word found in {{Infobox currency}}.The current name is just a holdover from a time without comprehensive naming standards. ▫ JohnnyMrNinja 05:37, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

• Support per WP:COMMONNAME. bd2412 T 13:31, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Use of £ in Lebanon, Sudan, and Syria

Lebanese pound, Sudanese pound, and Syrian pound do not mention £. Pound (currency) says that non-GBP-pegged currencies don't use £ and Pound sign specifically mentions Lebanon doesn't. I'm removing these three currencies from the list of those that use £. If this is incorrect, a clarifying reference would be awesome. -- Beland (talk) 21:23, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Square yuan

Is U+3350 ㍐ SQUARE YUAN used as a currency symbol? -- Beland (talk) 00:16, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

Why is Macau's currency symbol in its own spot?!

Macau's currency symbol is "MOP$" in that sense it is similar to Brazil with "R$"; letters and the dollar signs making it part of the other currencies that use it as well. -- Sion8 (talk) 06:49, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Generic currency sign: what's it good for?

what is the generic currency sign ¤ used for?— Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.242.249.17 (talk) 10:33, 25 May 2005

Been reading Politiken eh? First thing I did was also to check here :) (For the rest of you: A Danish newspaper is trying to find out what the ¤ sign means and has resorted to asking the readers since none of the experts they asked knew) - Preisler 11:54, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

I have :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Madsmh (talk • contribs) 15:42, 25 May 2005

It's used to indicate currency placement in format strings on computer equipment. I don't know if there are any other uses. Ajhoughton 11:42, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

"Imagine that a merchant in some country wants to indicate a price and hence writes '¤50,00' ..." - see how it's used? (Admittedly, a rare case, but IMHO a cleaner-looking one than starting to make up custom placeholders such as "Imperial Dollar-Rupees of Arbitraristan".) 129.69.215.100 (talk) 07:58, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

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Should there be a seperate section for Currency symbols and for Acronyms

I mean the title of this section speaks for itself, $£ symbolds. LS acronyms. Any thoughts ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.100.141.248 (talk) 14:49, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

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