Talk:Crossed hands

... eagle hand gesture...Why the eagle?

I have added text to the article and my edit was reverted. I would like to support my edit. The source was an article in Washington Post under the title For Albanians, it’s not just an eagle. Here’s the deeper story on those World Cup fines.User:TU-nor wrote at the Edit summary:"The Washington Post article is about the eagle as a symbol, not about the gesture. Tolerance is not even mentioned. That the gesture signifies tolerance is pure nonsense. Please take this to the talk page"

The author of the article is quick in establishing a relationship between the eagle as a gesture and the eagle as a symbol. One can see the photo of a footballer making the eagle gesture and read at the caption: Switzerland’s Granit Xhaka celebrates with the sign of the Albanian eagle. After that When Switzerland competes against Sweden in the World Cup on Tuesday, no players will celebrate with the eagle hand gesture.... Why the eagle?. So, according to the author of the article, there is a relation between the eagle as a gesture and the eagle as a symbol.

As for tolerance, User:TU-nor is right that it is not mentioned. But it is not necessary. The author states: "the eagle, with its two heads, serves as that one token of identity inclusive enough to represent a diverse population of Muslims and Orthodox and Catholic Christians". So, I think I am entitled to use the word "tolerance". Should a better word be more appopriate? Please suggest it. But tolerance is within the context of the article. Thank you. Τζερόνυμο (talk) 11:10, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

This article is about the gesture. Of course there is a relation between the gesture and the eagle as a symbol, but from that you cannot deduce that everything about the eagle is valid about the gesture. If "the eagle stands for pride and heroism", it does not follow that the gesture stands for pride and heroism, etc. The article's claim that the eagle "serves as that one token of identity inclusive enough to represent a diverse population" does not support that "[t]he gesture signifies the culture of tolerance in the Albanian society". If the eagle symbol is the only thing that unites ("that one token of identity inclusive enough"), it is hardly signifying tolerance. And why would a gesture signifying tolerance be seen as "unsporting behavior"? It will be interesting to hear comments from others, though. --T*U (talk) 11:52, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

@TU-nor: the same could be said for sources claiming that the symbol 'represents' Greater Albania as well being "valid". How do they know that the intention of those making the symbol is about "greater Albania"? The players got fined because FIFA interpreted the intent as a political gesture. They did not however rule that it was in relation to Greater Albania. If that stuff on Greater Albania remains, some other additions from the Washington Post article to this wiki page suffice to explain the symbol and gesture. I should note that the Washington Post article is an analysis piece by an academic based in the West, unlike some opinion pieces that have been pushed for the sentence of a Greater Albania connection. Just sayin'.Resnjari (talk) 13:18, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

At least the three current sources in the "Controversy" section are explicitly about the gesture (and the link to Greater Albania), and not about the eagle. Anyway, I am not against adding stuff based on the Washington Post article, for example in a section "Symbolism" or similar, but it must clearly differensiate between eagle and gesture. The proposed addition did not manage to do this. --T*U (talk) 13:35, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

The additions could have been better worded. Anyway of the 3 source on the greater Albania sentence, one is an opinion piece. If that's the bar were setting here, I can add two opinion pieces to sentences from the Washington Post source about a contrary view, and those 2 [1] (balkaninsight), [2] (foreign policy magazine) are written by Serb journalists.Resnjari (talk) 14:07, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

Go for it Resnjari, nice to see that we are working this out. Τζερόνυμο (talk) 14:35, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

Sure, why not. Or perhaps not fill up with too many, but stick to the best sources for each different view. --T*U (talk) 14:38, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

Its all good that its sorted then. I'll do adds tomorrow, as time does not permit for me to do so at the moment. Best.Resnjari (talk) 15:39, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

I added two sentences from Kokobobo that were really relevant to this article. Her article though has more content which would make nice additions to the Albanian flag article as she explains the Albanian's relationship with the eagle symbol.Resnjari (talk) 18:13, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

Something is obviously missing

Why is there no picture of this gesture? --Khajidha (talk) 18:20, 1 March 2019 (UTC)

Without a list of photos at all possible combinations the page isn't complete

Blind people and mostly analytical philosophers whan us to explain what we see analytically. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:587:4101:5200:DD33:6B76:DB0:11E1 (talk) 03:28, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

I'm not entirely sure if you are agreeing with me or mocking me as your phrasing is a bit odd. To clarify, I can think of numerous ways to cross my hands but am not sure which is what is meant here. Also, the gesture that to me most resembles the double headed eagle actually involves crossing the wrists, not the hands. --Khajidha (talk) 21:29, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

Garuda hasta, no Albanian eagle

It is garuda hasta, a hand gesture in Yoga, nix Albania ;)

https://www.google.at/search?biw=1418&bih=770&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=6JXRXOHKNJ2h1fAPv8-ogA4&q=garuda+hasta&oq=garuda+hasta&gs_l=img.3...219243.221310..221624...0.0..0.132.1156.3j8......2....1..gws-wiz-img.....0..0i67j0j0i30j0i19j0i5i30i19j0i8i30i19j0i5i30j0i8i30.Gzb0pxS7Mu8 --Carski (talk) 14:34, 7 May 2019 (UTC)