Talk:Courageous (yacht)

Three time America's Cup Winners

Courageous and Intrepid won twice. Which other yacht won twice? Boatman 20:59, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

I have amended this part with reference to the list of challengers and defenders in America's Cup. If you are looking at that article, note that there are successive wins for Stars and Stripes in 1987 and 1988, but those are two different boats.Patche99z (talk) 17:37, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

• Hi Patche99z, Team Alinghi won twice sailing different AC class boats. Not sure if this is relevant to the article re Courageous the 12-metre class boat. My recommendation is that info re multiple winning teams, helmsman, yacht clubs, countries etc is included in the main America's Cup article. Info relating to other multiple winning boats is relevant in the Courageous yacht article and could be included there. rgds, Boatman (talk) 09:28, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Hi, Boatman. You obviously have much greater knowledge than I have. I have removed the incorrect ref to Alinghi in this article. But I do think that the situation of Alinghi sailing two different boats of the same name is not at all clear, either in the Alinghi article (which I see you have contributed to) or in the America's Cup article. May I ask if you would put in a line or two there to clarify? If I do it, I will probably get something subtly wrong. Thanks. Patche99z (talk) 15:59, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

GregoryDesigns... 7/5/2010 Just a few facts about "Courageous". 1. She was the fourth 12 Metre design to win the America's Cup from the board of Olin Stephens, the previous three being "Columbia", "Constellation" and "Intrepid". The other boat that he co-designed previously (with Starling Burgess) was "Ranger", the fastest "J" Class yacht ever, winner of the 19737 America's Cup. Afterward, he designed "Enterprise" (Like his design "Valiant" in 1970, she failed to win the right to defend in 1977 over her older sister, as did Ted Hood in "Independence") and "Freedom", winner of the 1980 Cup. 2. It is entirely possible that both American-built Twelves for 1974, as well as Bob Miller's "Southern Cross" (Alan Bond's first attempt to wrest the Cup, if I remember correctly) hit the water the first time in the same month, all aluminum-hulled. "Mariner", however, has the sail number US 25, whereas "Courageous" is US 26, so she's second on the register to "Mariner" as America's first non-wood Twelve. Pity about "Mariner" is that, although her designer, Britton Chance, has designed some of the best (and fastest) racing sailboats, he misread the test data and designed a slow boat. He also was on the design team for Dennis Conner's Cup-winning Twelve "Stars and Stripes 87", 1987 winner. Paceship 29, Equation, Ondine, Resolute Salmon. Some of the most succesful, sometimes the most radical, sailboats of their respective times. All Brit Chance designs. 3 "Stars and Stripes 88" was a catamaran, not a Twelve Metre. Alinghi won twice in different boats of the same name. Columbia (1897, 1901), Intrepid (1967, 1970) and Courageous (1974, 1977) were the same boat, modified in each case, but still the same hull, same sail number, same number of hulls (Stars and Stripes 87 vs 88). AND "Courageous" has such an enduring basic design that, as late as the 1987 Louis Vuitton Cup (challenger trials for the America's Cup), she was in the hunt under the leadership of John Kolius for selection to race Australia's defender, "Kookabura", until her eventual elimination well into the series. 4, In 1974, if Courageous had been found underweight, there would have been no real fallout, as Olin Stephens had overseen a redesign of (1967 and 1970 winner) "Intrepid" and, under Gerry Driscoll as skipper, she was as fast as Courageous throughout the Defender Selection Trials. In the end, it came down to a $5 part breaking on "Intrepid" during the Defender Finals that tilted the Selection Committee to "Courageous". If "Intrepid" had raced "Southern Cross" for the America's Cup in the 1974 Final, the results would have been the same, and Olin Stephens would still have designed the winner. Possibly the greatest sailboat designer since the Herreshoff's, one of whom (Cap't Nat, if I remember correctly) designed "Columbia" for those Turn of the (last) Century Cup races. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.136.26.235 (talk) 02:05, 6 July 2010 (UTC)