Talk:Corruption in Venezuela

Intent to Deceive

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In its present state (May 2012) this article includes phrasing that clearly and obviously has the intent to deceive, portraying Chavez as a champion against corruption, while reality is quite different. Therefore this article merits considerable revision and expansion. --AVM (talk) 14:41, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

Biased sources

There are biased anti-government sources, for example, Dolar Today which used in one of their reports about venezuelan protests photos of russian/bulgarian police attacking anti-government protestors.--213.220.243.18 (talk) 21:21, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

I have deleted the whole text because this article is not about protests but about corruption.--Communist-USSR (talk) 21:25, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Reworking and bias

I have done some considerable changes on the page both for clean-up and to avoid any biased wording. The page isn't perfect, but it certainly looks good. It avoids too much bias for a page that, by nature, is rather controversial. There are still a few holes in the depiction of corruption in the country, but those are sure to be found in the near future.DaltonCastle (talk) 03:40, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for looking at it. It is true that some are biased but we will see in there near future. Especially with the Diosdado Cabello case.--Zfigueroa (talk) 01:06, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

the definition of 'corruption'

Those who have edited or plan to edit this page would to well to (re-)familiarize themselves with the definition of "political corruption". It is not any old misdoing--or simply any allegation of one. The page should not be a compilation of unsubstantiated allegations by a government's critics (which too many Venezuelan articles are in danger of becoming) about anything whatsoever (e.g. charges of 'stacking' the courts, 'pushing' for particular constitutional reforms, military posturing, etc.). Political corruption is something specific: "the abuse of public power, office, or resources by elected government officials for personal gain, e.g. by extortion, soliciting or offering bribes". Even if allegations of "government assistance of terrorist organizations" were true (more than simply allegations), it must be show how this constitutes "corruption" per se.--Riothero (talk) 19:18, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

There are also several notable cases of corruption that go unmentioned in the article, due what I fear could only be political reasons (as they do not lend themelves easily to the negative picture of the government being painted by its opponents). ...those that immediately come to mind: opposition politician Leopoldo Lopez (sanctioned for alleged corruption while mayor of Chacao, and as an employee of PDVSA), judge Maria Lourdes Afiuni (charged with corruption, abuse of authority and aiding an inmate's escape, allegations of bribery), the socialist party's own Edgardo Parra (mayor of third largest city, charged with extortion, money laundering, etc. during government's anti-corruption drive). -- Riothero (talk) 20:12, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

Sorry that I did not see this before I made an edit, I thought you meant I needed to grab the dictionary. Anyways, with the United States government taking the time to write formal charges against Venezuelan officials that were accused of terrorist assistance, drug trade, etc., I think that would be more reliable than some blogger spreading rumors or such. The United States Treasury even stated in the title that those officials are "targeted" now, meaning they have been charged of those crimes (though this is according to the United States, but let's not go there). So, the drug triage and terrorist assistance are more than allegations to the United States since those officials have been charged.

Now, with the allegation discussion, there is no way that there can be evidence for every shred of corruption, especially when all that evidence can be criticised. Officials are too high up and have too many resources at their disposal to let anyone smell their dirty laundry. However, when multiple reliable sources can come into play making statements about a specific topic, this changes to something more credible than some opposing political party or such. --Zfigueroa (talk) 20:45, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

Government assistance of terrorist organizations = Corruption?

Why is "government assistance of terrorist organizations" classified as 'corruption'?--Riothero (talk) 15:52, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

Merriam Webster - corruption, "impairment of integrity, virtue, or moral principle" or "inducement to wrong by improper or unlawful means". Wikipedia- "corruption is spiritual or moral impurity or deviation from an ideal". Is associating with terrorists morally correct? Is it not a deviation from an ideal of the majority of human beings? Do you think that helping terrorists is the morally correct or ideal thing to do Riothero? It is best that some questions should not be asked or answered.--ZiaLater (talk) 19:16, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

Your answer is ridiculous, Zia. A+ for effort.--Riothero (talk) 20:09, 12 October 2014 (UTC)

I find your responses even more ridiculous, especially the sarcastic tone and your continuous efforts to censor reliably sourced information. It worries me that you do not find allegations of government leaders assisting terrorists as corruption and that you proceed to delete reliably sourced information showing such. Despite any ideology, left or right; supporting terrorism is very corrupt behavior and allegations of such should be noted in an article of corruption if they are reliably sourced and attributed (which they are). --ZiaLater (talk) 00:19, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

"Political corruption is the use of powers by government officials for illegitimate private gain. An illegal act by an officeholder constitutes political corruption only if the act is directly related to their official duties, is done under color of law or involves trading in influence. Forms of corruption vary, but include bribery, extortion, cronyism, nepotism, patronage, graft, and embezzlement."--Riothero (talk) 16:49, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

Nice try.--ZiaLater (talk) 20:46, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

Riothero, I'll have to explain my edits or you will accuse me of vandalism or something. I think you missed the part in the political corruption article where political scandal is involved with political corruption as well. Wikipedia - "A political scandal is a kind of political corruption that is exposed and becomes a scandal, in which politicians or government officials are accused of engaging in various illegal, corrupt, or unethical practices." Just wanted to add this since I've missed some things in my editing before and you helped point them out as well. --ZiaLater (talk) 22:00, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

Look, ZiaLater. I do not wish to be rude, but I don't believe you have an appropriate grasp of what 'political corruption' entails. Your 'definition' is so broad that it would literally include any "spiritual or moral impurity or deviation from an ideal" (i.e. any action by a government official that anyone might find morally or spiritually objectionable). The current article contains many details that are already on numerous Wikipedia pages related to Venezuela (Crime, Drug Trade, etc), but do not relate directly corruption per se. If you believe some of the information is important, but not located elsewhere on Wikipedia (perhaps with this 'terrorist assistance'?), I would encourage you to find a new place to put it. In the interest of improving this article (keeping it concise, etc.), it needs to be pared down to issues directly relating to corruption according to the definition above (i.e. "use of powers by government officials for illegitimate private gain").--Riothero (talk) 13:09, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

I believe that you need to stop your disruptive editing. I do not have a broad definition of corruption, I just use universal definitions of corruption that state that such actions (such as allegedly supporting terrorists, illegal drug organizations, etc.) are corrupt. If anything, your definition of corruption, Riothero, is too narrow and excludes any action of the Bolivarian government which you have been working so hard to defend by censoring reliably sourced and attributed work. You may say that I am pushing "POV edits" or such, but like I said before, whatever comes into my news feed and is appropriate for an article, it may be placed into that article. I feel like I no longer have to explain my edits to you since your only goal on WP is to delete anything you find offensive toward the Bolivarian government.--ZiaLater (talk) 17:49, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

November 2015

@ZiaLater: Going over your edits now. My first concern is in the Drug Trafficking case. You phrased it as "Alleged", but I thought it was proven that her two nephews are in fact involved. Isn't it just alleged, then, that Maduro is benefitting from this? DaltonCastle (talk) 21:33, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

I can make corrections if needed. They are arrested and have pretty hard evidence against them. I can make that change.--ZiaLater (talk) 21:35, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

Ah! Ok, so its not proven per se. But the arrest was made on grounds of fairly sufficient evidence. DaltonCastle (talk) 21:37, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, audiovisual evidence of the two wanting to ship the drugs into New York and providing a sample of cocaine should be enough.--ZiaLater (talk) 21:51, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

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Add new section -2017 Constituent Assembly Election

Hi all! I noticed this article is heavily weighted in the drug trafficking topic. I wanted to add a little section about the recent 2017 Constituent Assembly Election with just a few brief sentences explaining it and then a link to the actual article. If anyone disagrees with me, I am happy to discuss. Also, I would love help building out the section, so all contributions are welcome! Shelbyhoward423 (talk) 00:45, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

@Shelbyhoward423: Where should this section go? A sub-section of the "Bolivarian revolution" section?--ZiaLater (talk) 17:25, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

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A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

• PDVSA corruption flowchart.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 01:22, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

CNN article "Cocaine superhighway"

• Walsh, Nick Paton; Natalie Gallón and Diana Castrillon (17 April 2019). "Corruption in Venezuela has created a cocaine superhighway to the US". CNN. Retrieved 17 April 2019.{{cite news}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 13:41, 17 April 2019 (UTC)