Talk:Corporal punishment/Archive 4

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Archive 4

Please add Slovenia to the two maps

Slovenia has outlawed corporal punishment. [1] 5.12.116.146 (talk) 20:21, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

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• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100901184638/http://treaties.un.org/Pages/ViewDetails.aspx?src=TREATY&mtdsg_no=IV-4&chapter=4&lang=en to http://treaties.un.org/Pages/ViewDetails.aspx?src=TREATY&mtdsg_no=IV-4&chapter=4&lang=en
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101108052518/https://treaties.un.org:80/Pages/ViewDetails.aspx?src=TREATY&mtdsg_no=IV-9&chapter=4&lang=en to http://treaties.un.org/Pages/ViewDetails.aspx?src=TREATY&mtdsg_no=IV-9&chapter=4&lang=en
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120917040858/http://treaties.un.org:80/Pages/ViewDetails.aspx?src=TREATY&mtdsg_no=IV-3&chapter=4&lang=en to http://treaties.un.org/Pages/ViewDetails.aspx?src=TREATY&mtdsg_no=IV-3&chapter=4&lang=en
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140211151110/https://treaties.un.org/pages/viewdetails.aspx?src=treaty&mtdsg_no=iv-11&chapter=4&lang=en to http://treaties.un.org/Pages/ViewDetails.aspx?src=TREATY&mtdsg_no=IV-11&chapter=4&lang=en

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France banned corporal punishment

http://www.livescience.com/57373-52-countries-ban-spanking-france.html

It would be a good idea to update the Europe map and note this in the article.Alo777 (talk) 04:13, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

Spanking Illegal in France by 2017

Please update the Status of France to green. Spanking became Illegal in 2017

http://www.today.com/parents/france-just-made-spanking-your-kid-illegal-t106715 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.107.114.46 (talk) 21:24, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

Ritual and punishment

I've removed the following text, which is not supported by any reliable sources. There are allusions to primary sources, but reliable, secondary sources are needed to establish due weight. It also contains a simple list of miscellaneous information, which is not encyclopedic.

Extended content

Corporal punishment in official settings, such as prisons, reformatories and schools, has typically been carried out in a formal ceremony, with a predefined procedure, emphasizing the severity of the occasion. It may even be staged in a ritual manner in front of other inmates or students, in order to act as a deterrent to others. In the case of prison or judicial punishments, the formal procedure might begin with the offender stripped of some or all of their clothing and restrained to a piece of furniture, such as a trestle or frame, (X-cross), punishment horse, plank or bench. In some cases the nature of the offence is read out before the punishment (usually consisting of a predetermined number of strokes) is formally imposed. A variety of implements may be used to inflict strokes on the offender. The terms used to describe these are not fixed, varying by country and by context. There are, however, a number of common types that are encountered when reading about corporal punishment. These include: The rod. A thin, flexible rod is often called a switch. Typically used for beating the palms of the hands and soles of the feet. The birch, a number of strong, flexible branches of birch or similar wood, bound together with twine into a single implement. The rattan cane (not bamboo as it is often wrongly described). Much favoured in the British Commonwealth for both school and judicial use. The paddle, a flat wooden board with a handle, with or without holes. Used in US schools. The strap. A leather strap with a number of tails at one end, called a tawse, was used in schools in Scotland and some parts of northern England. The whip, typically of leather. Varieties include the Russian knout and South African sjambok, in addition to the scourge and the French martinet. The cat o' nine tails was used in British naval discipline and as a judicial and prison punishment. The Scourge The Riding crop The hairbrush and belt were traditionally used in the United States and Britain as an implement for domestic spanking. The plimsoll or gym shoe, used in British and Commonwealth schools, as well as at home, often called "the slipper". See Slippering (punishment). The ferula, in Jesuit schools, as vividly described in a scene in A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man. In some instances the offender is required to prepare the implement himself. For instance, sailors were employed in preparing the cat o' nine tails that would be used upon their own back, while school students were sometimes sent out to cut a switch or rod. In contrast, informal punishments, particularly in domestic settings, tend to lack this ritual nature and are often administered with whatever object comes to hand. It is common, for instance, for belts, wooden spoons, slippers, hairbrushes or coathangers to be used in domestic punishment, while rulers and other classroom equipment have been used in schools.

—Sangdeboeuf (talk) 06:57, 1 October 2017 (UTC)

Moskos

The section on Peter Moskos's ideas about flogging appears disproportionate to the topic's coverage in reliable, secondary sources. The Economist did review his book, but not everything that appears in the news media is encyclopedic information. Such specific, ephemeral coverage seems out of place in such a general article. I suggest removing it. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 09:27, 1 October 2017 (UTC)

* I've removed this section and added the quote from The Economist to Moskos's bio under Peter Moskos § Corporal punishment. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 14:38, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

Arguments for reinstatement

Modern imprisonment arose as an alternative to corporal punishment. However, there have been arguments for the reinstatement of corporal punishment on the grounds of it being more humane than imprisonment. In his book, "In Defense of Flogging", Peter Moskos argues that prisoners should be allowed to choose between flogging and incarceration as punishment for their crimes. He defends his position by stating that flogging allows for a swift and efficient way of punishing people where they wouldn't have to spend years cut away from their life in society languishing in prison. In response to the book, one reviewer for the Economist has even stated, "Perhaps the most damning evidence of the broken American prison system is that it makes a proposal to reinstate flogging appear almost reasonable. Almost."

Similarly, Graeme Newman, in his 1983 book, "Just and Painful: A Case for the Corporal Punishment of Criminals" also argued for the reinstatement of corporal punishment as an alternative to imprisonment. Newman believed that incarceration was an unnecessarily harsh punishment for those who did not perform capital offenses or engage in repeated offenses. However, according to him, probation would be insufficient. Instead, to fill the gap, Newman advocated corporal punishment. He theorized that the degree of the pain in the punishment should fit the character of the crime. In contrast to Moskos, who advocated flogging, Newman even went so far as to suggest electric shocks as a viable means of punishment with respect to the severity of the crime committed.

In Prison and Slavery- A Surprising Comparison, John Dewar Gleissner also advocates for judicial corporal punishment over the incarceration of juveniles. He states that fear is a good motivator for good behavior and corporal punishment makes criminals penitent more than a simple imprisonment. He advocates for imprisonment to be resorted to as stricter punishment in case whipping does not suffice as proper deterrent. In contrast to Newman, he does not dismiss incarceration only for capital crimes, but believes that corporal punishment should be the first resort for punishment and discipline, even within prisons.

This material was recently added (with no discussion about re-adding the Moskos paragraph). Before having this in the article, it would be helpful to have some commentary from secondary sources explaining why these views are noteworthy. Otherwise we have a simple back-and forth between supporters and opponents of CP, with no clue as to the relative weight that these views hold. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 20:32, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

References

Focus

The archives suggest this has been contentious for a while, but the page's content seems overwhelmingly focused on corporal punishment of minors although admitting that it should be broader and deal with physical punishment of adults as well. The latter needs to be more thoroughly dealt with throughout the article. — LlywelynII 18:04, 9 January 2019 (UTC)

But as the second sentence of the article says, "It is most often practised on minors, especially in home and school settings". CP of adults is overhelmingly judicial CP, which is covered in the section headed "Judicial or quasi-judicial punishment" and, in more detail, in a separate article, Judicial corporal punishment. -- Alarics (talk) 20:50, 9 January 2019 (UTC)