Talk:Coro region

Requested move 15 February 2017

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. There are some good arguments both in favour and against, but is clear there is no agreement one way or the other. Therefore we default to the long-term stable title, which is Coro region. No prejudice against a new discussion in a couple of months; if you do so, it may be a good idea to notify relevant wikiprojects, such as WP:VEN, in order to get more participation in the discussion. Jenks24 (talk) 12:30, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

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Sistema Coriano → Coro region – Restore page to its name in English. See Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English). The article had been at Coro region‎ since April 2006 until yesterday when it was redirected to the newly created page Sistema Coriano, without discussion. The name "Coro region" has been the preferred English name for a long time. See, for example, usage in the 1922 Venezuela, a Commercial and Industrial Handbook, "coro+region" page 245. Bejnar (talk) 23:49, 15 February 2017 (UTC) Relisted. Jenks24 (talk) 07:54, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

I created a new page since I didnt know about the "move" option. The "Coro region" is not the proper name in english, since it's not used in spanish since modern times. The correct name for this region is "Sistema Coriano" or "Lara-Falcón Formation" (Formación Lara-Falcón). Just check the official names of it on some govmt websites:

• http://www.venezuelatuya.com/geografia/coriano.htm
• http://gobiernoenlinea.gob.ve/home/geografia2.dot
• http://www.luventicus.org/mapas/venezuela/sistemacoriano.html

--Gabrielsanz (talk) 02:14, 16 February 2017 (UTC)

@Gabrielsanz: You miss the point of Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English). The legal and official name in Spanish is not relevant where there is an English name in current use. Mexico City is not under the Spanish: Ciudad de México. Please re-read the guideline. (A side note: English "formation" is a false cognate of Spanish "formación" when used in that sense. In English "Lara-Falcón Formation" implies a geological term. The English words "federation" or "amalgamation" are closer, but are not quite right either.) --Bejnar (talk) 14:16, 16 February 2017 (UTC)

Unblank original article Spanish sources above may well use "Sistema Coriano", but English sources appear to use "Coro Region". In ictu oculi (talk) 08:50, 16 February 2017 (UTC)

@Bejnar: I get your point, but "Coro region" is not the official name for this region in English. Sierra Nevada de Mérida is not named in English as Mérida Snowy Mountain Range, Cordillera de Mérida as Mérida Cordillera/Mountain Range of Mérida or Los Llanos as The Plains. You're using a source for 1922, and from a "Commercial and Industrial Handbook", Which is totally different after this region is totally bio-physical, and doesn't have anything related to the geopolitic regions of Venezuela, which might be something similar but not the same.
And actually the name Lara-Falcon Formation implies a geological term, since the Venezuelan natural regions (like this one) were delimited after their geological conditions. If the case is not to use a Spanish name as the official one, we could use Lara-Falcón Hill System or Coriano System as a lot of scientific papers name this region:
* Lara-Falcón Hill System - Pg. 1039
*Physiographical sub-regions of Venezuela: Lara-Falcón Hill System - Figure 1
*The Lara-Falcon mountainous system comprises a complex of separate small mountain chains located between the Venezuelan Andes, the Venezuelan Coastal Range and the eastern savannas of Lake Maracaibo depression
*Range Description: Lara Falcon Hill System
*ABSTRACT: "The Andean bioregion presents the greatest richness with 35 species (19.77 %), followed by Lara Falcon Hilly System with 7 (3.95 %)...
*Coriano System: A group formed by mountains and valleys that limit the Southeast with the Cordillera de Merida, on the west by Lake Maracaibo and northern plain and the Gulf of Venezuela and east by the Cordillera de la Costa. The relief in this area is very high, with altitudes between 500 and 1,700 m.
*system The Coriano System
*Geographical Regions: Coriano System
*...intermediate-height formations of the Coriano system

So please, "Coro region" is not the appropriate name in English for this region. There's not even evidence in english of that (besides that link you showed which is from almost 100 years ago, and not related in anything with the Physical Geography undertone of this topic). --Gabrielsanz (talk) 23:02, 16 February 2017 (UTC

The 1922 example was just that an example, among other things it showed how long the term "Coro region" had been regularly used in English. We are not dealing with a mountain system, we are not dealing with translations from Spanish, we are dealing with the entire area, and English usage. While I am not a great believer in the absolute value of Google statistics, if you search Google Books you come up with over 1,000 hits in English for "Coro region", for "Sistema Coriano" you come with two in English, the other ten are all in Spanish. Regarding the fact that in English we often use the Spanish name for a variety of geographic locations, I agree, but English does not always do so (cf. Mexico City), and does not do so in this case. --Bejnar (talk) 23:19, 16 February 2017 (UTC)

Exactly, but if you see Google Books the term "Coro region" it's not denoted as a Physiographic Region, the entire area we're talking about is cited on most geographic, biologic, geologic, environmental and other scientific papers as "Lara-Falcón Hill System", "Coriano System" or "Lara-Falcón System" because it's the name of the entire area we're talking about! It's even used by the International Union for Conservation of Nature and official govmt sites. Some of the sources are giving you the geographic limits of the entire area, and you still think I'm talking about "a mountain system", while I am talking about the whole region. The name "Coro region" is not even described as a physiographic region, the undertones on it are more political/human. Once again, I strongly disagree of this term since it's not even mentioned or described on Google Books as a natural, physiographic or biogeographic region, while I'm giving you strong and reliable bases of the correct name in English of this natural region.
I know in English the geographic locations are not always translated. But what's your criteria of this one being translated? Because I don't see any difference. What causes this to be translated, and the others I mention, are not? (I don't have any problem if the name of this region is translated or not, just a curiosity) --Gabrielsanz (talk) 23:33, 16 February 2017 (UTC)

I agree that Coro region is not limited to a physiographic province, neither should the article be, it should be descriptive of the whole region, although for me the most interesting material is the physiographic. However, take a look at the lead paragraph of this article, and you will see that Coro region is not one physiographic province, but falls in at least two if not three or more physiographic provinces. --Bejnar (talk) 00:10, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

Regarding your question about why English does what is does, English is not consistent. For example, it uses the Latin based name for Germany (Germania), but does not call France "Gaul". There is no rhyme or reason for many of the vagaries of English. For another example, names fall out of favor, we no longer call Iceland "Thule", but use a variant of the Danish "Island". English speakers used to call the Middle East "the Levant", now one seldom sees it used. "Coros region" is not a translation from Spanish, it is just the name of the area in English. The French call their southeastern beach area "Côte d'Azur", but in English it is the French Riviera, not a translation. --Bejnar (talk) 00:10, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

Thank you for explaining me about that :)
The region might fall into more than one physiographic province, but since the criteria is about geographic natural region that's why most of investigations and sources show it as one, if you see Huber describes these three province (these you looked) as "Physiographical sub-regions" of Lara-Falcón System. The Environmental Ministry of Venezuela and Simón Bolívar Geographic Institute mapped it as an entire region (check map here); the Consulat General of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela in USA, when talking about the Geographical Regions of Venezuela, listed it as one region as well (Coriano System); PDVSA listed this region as one of the physiographic provinces in Venezuela, and that's what the article is talking about. I suggest to use other name instead of "Coro region", since there is no reliable info about the "coro region" use in this kind of natural geographic topic --Gabrielsanz (talk) 00:58, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

• Support per nomination. —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 03:44, 17 February 2017 (UTC)
• Neutral. Although I still feel that in the English Wikipedia, this region should be described with an English-language name, additional information has led me to surmise that, due to inconsistency of sources, "Coro region" may not be the most appropriate English form. I am thus changing my vote to "Neutral", but would be willing to vote in favor of another English variant. —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 14:19, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

There is plenty about Coro region being a "geographical region" which is what this article is about, that is different from a "physiographic province". Geographical regions are not defined solely, or in most cases just by physiographic provinces. If you want to write a separate article about the Lara-Falcón depression, a physiographic province, that is well and good, but that is not this article. --Bejnar (talk) 18:07, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

• Noting that a histmerge has been performed to fix the cut-and-paste move, and that if this ends no consensus it should default back to the status quo. Jenks24 (talk) 07:54, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

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• Hundición de Yay, Desierto Estado Lara, Venezuela.JPG

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