Talk:Constituencies for French residents overseas

List the countries

I think it would be a lot better if this article listed the country names rather than the regions. The regions named don't exactly match the countries. I've already pointed out that the 3rd district listed Northern Europe which already contains all the countries of the British Isles and Scandanavia. And for the 7th district, listing Central Europe is incorrect as the 7th doesn't contain Germany as one of the countries, yet Germany is one of the countries of Central Europe. Similarly Liechtenstein is included in Central Europe, but it's in the 6th district. A table of countries is fairly straight forward and less ambiguous and more accurate:

CONSTITUENCY	COMPOSITION
1st District	Canada, United States.
2nd District	Antigua and Barbuda, Argentina, Bahamas, Barbados, Belize, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Cuba, Dominica, Ecuador, Grenada, Guatemala, Guyana, Haiti, Honduras, Jamaica, Mexico, Nicaragua, Panama, Paraguay , Peru, Dominican Republic, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Salvador, Suriname, Trinidad and Tobago, Uruguay, Venezuela;
3rd District	Denmark, Estonia, Finland, Iceland, Ireland, Latvia, Lithuania, Norway, UK, Sweden;
4th District	Belgium, Luxembourg, the Netherlands;
5th District	Andorra, Spain, Monaco, Portugal;
6th District	Liechtenstein, Switzerland;
7th District	Albania, Austria, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Croatia, Germany, Hungary, Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, Poland, Romania, Serbia and Montenegro, Slovenia, Czech Republic, Slovakia.
8th District	Cyprus, Greece, Israel, Italy, Malta, San Marino, Holy See, Turkey;
9th District	Algeria, Burkina Faso, Cape Verde, Côte d\'Ivoire, Gambia, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Leone, Liberia, Libya, Mali, Morocco, Mauritania, Niger, Senegal, Sierra, Tunisia;
10th District	South Africa, Angola, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Benin, Botswana, Burundi, Cameroon, Comoros, Congo, Djibouti, Egypt, United Arab Emirates, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Gabon, Ghana, Equatorial Guinea, Iraq, Jordan, Kenya, Kuwait, Lebanon, Lesotho, Madagascar, Malawi, Mauritius, Mozambique, Namibia, Nigeria, Oman, Qatar, Central African Republic, Democratic Republic of Congo, Rwanda, Sao Tome and Principe, Seychelles, Somalia, Sudan, Swaziland, Syria, Tanzania , Chad, Togo, Yemen, Zambia, Zimbabwe;
11th District	Afghanistan, Armenia, Australia, Azerbaijan, Bangladesh, Belarus, Burma, Brunei, Cambodia, China, South Korea, Fiji, Georgia, India, Indonesia, Iran, Japan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Kiribati, Laos, Malaysia, Maldives, Marshall Micronesia, Moldova, Mongolia, Nauru, Nepal, New Zealand, Pakistan, Palau, Papua New Guinea, Philippines, Russia, Solomon Islands, Samoa, Singapore, Sri Lanka, Tajikistan, Thailand, East Timor, Tonga, Turkmenistan, Tuvalu, Ukraine, Vanuatu, Vietnam;

(Unsigned comment was posted by User:HighKing)

I disagree. I've adopted the same model as in the French Wikipedia, because it seems the most sensible. It's more meaningful to indicate regions than to deluge viewers immediately in a list of countries. If a user wants the specific list of countries, he or she can click on the link to the article about the constituency, where I list them all. (Perhaps I can also make the indication of the number of countries into a clickable link, to make it even easier.) Moreover, I've put a map in, which does show you precisely which countries are in which constituency. (Germany is in the seventh, by the way. I don't know why you left it out of your list.) Thanks for the correction on Northern Europe, though. Aridd (talk) 08:25, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

My bad on Germany in the 7th district, I must've missed it last night. I've added it in above.

But the main point I'm trying to make is that using regional descriptions like "Eastern Europe" or "Central Europe" isn't accurate. Take a look at the 7th District. According to the current table using the "regions" of Central and Eastern Europe, we should have 16 countries. But Eastern Europe is listed as having 10 countries:

• Belarus (not in 7th, actually in 11th)
• Bulgaria (OK)
• Czech Republic (OK)
• Hungary (OK)
• Moldova (not in 7th, actually in 11th)
• Poland (OK)
• Romania (OK)
• Russia (not in 7th, actually in 11th)
• Slovakia (OK)
• Ukraine (not in 7th, actually in 11th)

while Central Europe is listed as having 9 countries

• Austria (OK)
• Czech Republic (OK, and also included in Eastern Europe)
• Germany (OK)
• Hungary (OK, and also included in Eastern Europe)
• Liechtenstein (not in 7th, actually in 6th)
• Poland (OK, and also included in Eastern Europe)
• Slovakia (OK, and also included in Eastern Europe)
• Slovenia (OK)
• Switzerland (not in 7th, actually in 6th)

It gets worse with the 8th District. It's supposed to only have 8 countries, but looking at the Southern Europe article you've linked to, it's just not accurate. I'm all for regions, if they make sense, but in this case it just looks to be too inaccurate, and it also doesn't look as if the French government have used "regions" in any of their descriptions. Closest I can find is this PDF on Français inscrits au registre mondial au 31/12/2010 but that doesn't break down into the Districts either, and the definition for "Western Europe" is different to Western Europe.

I believe it's more accurate to ... list the countries. --HighKing (talk) 16:38, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

They broadly correspond to regions. We can quibble over the placing of certain countries, but with the map at thee top of the article, readers aren't going to be confused. I've now added extra links taking readers directly to lists of countries. The main page should give an overview; the detailed pages should give details. This, in my view, is the clearest and most informative layout. Aridd (talk) 18:16, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

We can disagree, that's fine. At the very least, we've a couple of points of view expressed and we can see what other editors think if they should happen here. It's a balance between summarizing and accuracy. --HighKing (talk) 00:44, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

Bhutan

The colouring of Bhutan in the official map provided in the Main Article indicates that it is in the 11th district. The lead indicates Bhutan is _not_ covered. Anyone got a reference concerning the exclusion of Bhutan, and if so, the reason?Ordinary Person (talk) 06:09, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

The reason for Bhutan's exclusion is given in the article. Bhutan is the only country in the world to have chosen to have no diplomatic relations with the five permanent members of the United Nations Security Council. Bhutan and North Korea are the only two UN members to have no diplomatic relations with France (Bhutan of its own initiative, NK because France doesn't recognise it). The official list of countries covered by the eleventh constituency (bottom of the page) excludes Bhutan (and North Korea). (Same here (bottom of page 18).) Aridd (talk) 07:08, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Bhutan is colored same as India in this official map: http://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/fr/IMG/pdf/Les_11_circonscriptions_electorales_pour_l_election_des_deputes_representant_les_Francais_etablis_hors_de_France.pdf VictorVVV (talk) 16:05, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

It's a colouring error. This page makes it clear that Bhutan is excluded. (Click on Asia on the map for a list of included countries. Or type the first three letters of the name of any country on the side of the page: it indicates what constituency that country is part of. If you try to enter Bhutan, it doesn't respond.) Aridd (talk) 12:45, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

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Title translation

Is there a reason why the name of this type of constituency is translated as "[...] French residents overseas"? Speaking as an English speaker, that's an oxymoron - "French residents" implies people who live in France, which "overseas" then contradicts. This could be solved by making the "resident" part an adjective (i.e. "French [used as a collective noun] resident overseas") or, better yet, changing "residents" to "citizens". Another solution would be reordering to "French overseas residents". I think this translation should be amended, which would involve moving the page. However, I don't want to step on any toes if it's an official translation by the French government or some other authoritative source. Jamboy (talk) 14:12, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

A related issue struck me on reading the article and I came to this talk page to address it, but I'll jump on yours @Computerfan because they're close.

The use of the word overseas sounds particularly strange, and is in fact wholly inappropriate in the title for this article for two reasons:

1/it does not properly translate hors de France, which means abroad. In several cases here overseas is actually a misnomer; its literal significance is beyond the sea: yet the constituencies situated in European continental countries, for instance, come to mind as not corresponding to this criterion; 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 11th, part of the 3rd;

2/it is the exact translation for the term outremer or ultramarin, which exist to determine constituencies for France's non-metropolitan territories. The crux of the matter is that the current title actually refers to people living in overseas France, which is a quite separate issue.

The point Jamboy has raised should be addressed at the same time, and I would suggest the name be changed to French citizens abroad. I think this change really needs implementing. Lansonyte (talk) 09:34, 11 May 2022 (UTC)