Talk:Comparison of commercial battery types

Li-ion densities

Some of the energy densities are way off. Lithium-ion cells reached 260 Wh/kg long ago, and some sources cite Tesla´s latest cells (the infamous 4680s) at somewhere between 280-295 Wh/kg. The now pretty old Sanyo/Panasonic NCR18650GA cell (which is the basis of the first Model S batteries, as it existed long before that) is 3450mAh @3.7V nominal, with a average weight of 48g, which gives a density of 265Wh/kg. 21700 cells are supposed to be better due to a better active/inactive material ratio, although I haven´t seen hard evidence of this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 181.74.139.212 (talk) 09:32, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

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LiPo

Is there a reason why LiPo (Lithium Ion Polymer) batteries are not included in the comparison? I believe that is a battery type. Cyborg (talk) 14:45, 9 November 2016 (UTC)

LiPo refers to two different kinds of batteries, and neither of them really belong here. The first is an experimental lithium battery that uses a polymer electrolyte. This kind of battery has never been commercialized, and we don't really have any specs to report. The second, more common use of the term just refers to any lithium ion battery delivered in a flexible, polymer envelope; in other words, it's a form factor, not a chemistry. --Skrapion (talk) 23:22, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

The problem is that many manufacturers list their batteries as "Li-ion" or "LiPo", this document should at least make it clear to the layman that those generally refer to one of several types of batteries, not just leave it out with no mention because it isn't technically accurate.DracoDan82 (talk) 14:11, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

Then we should group all the Li-ion batteries and use subgroups in the table, which I would be ok with. It is wrong to say that the Li cobalt oxide specifically is Li-ion. --Ita140188 (talk) 23:51, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

NiFe Voltages

The figures quoted are for a 6v battery, not a cell. For the NiFe cell they're way off. Tabby (talk) 21:35, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

Agreed, it looks as though the per cell voltage is much lower, also the Cite link was dead - but I found the same PDF archived on the Wayback Machine - which is a product leaflet from 1993. SlySven (talk) 07:29, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

Nickel-iron battery, Electrochemistry says it is about 1.5 V (although it is not very clear). --Mortense (talk) 09:27, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

Lithium–titanate batterys

Can someone add Lithium-titanate batteries to this page? This type of battery is a modified lithium-ion battery that has differing characteristics (cell voltage, energy density and cycle life) from standard lithium-ion batteries. Some stats for this type of battery are listed at https://www.eetimes.com/author.asp?section_id=36&doc_id=1325358 06:52, 13 May 2018 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.225.50.97 (talk)

Appears to be added :) 81.6.34.246 (talk) 17:30, 6 July 2019 (UTC)

The anode is wrong on the lithium titanate battery row: "A lithium-titanate battery is a modified lithium-ion battery that uses lithium-titanate nanocrystals, instead of carbon, on the surface of its anode. "  Briancady413 (talk) 23:55, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

References

Vanadium redox battery

Hi, Vanadium redox battery, is somehow commercially available at huge scale. The main benefit is its scalability, as it is flow type battery. So it is used at utility scale, i.e. 200MW, 800MWh (4 hours at full power) storage in China in 2018. And many other smaller ones, multi MWh systems around the world. The infrastructure required makes them a bit prohibitive to use in smaller installations, but it is possible in the future probably. It is not like you can just by a "module" or battery, but it looks more like each installation is very customized. I guess, it shouldn't be impossible to make it modular, i.e. to make 1MWh in a shipping container or something. I think it justifies adding to the table. No idea about the costs, but it is very likely at scale it is cheaper ($/Wh) than alternatives, especially if one includes the fact that VRB can last 30 years and do 20000 full discharge cycles before hitting 80% initial capacity. No idea about maintenance, and other factors. AFAIK it has pretty low conversion efficiency (Columbic efficiency), ~80%? 81.6.34.246 (talk) 17:30, 6 July 2019 (UTC)

Actually it appears there are many companies around the world offering commercial small scale Vanadium redox flow batteries.81.6.34.246 (talk) 17:50, 6 July 2019 (UTC)

Cost of alkaline batteries

For alkaline batteries, the article gives a cost of 0.46 Wh/$ or 2160 $/kWh. The reference is a dead link, so I can't check the context, but those values can't be right, at least not for "normal" low power applications. You can buy a D cell alkaline battery for $2, and the total capacity exceeds 20 Wh at low discharge current (like 25 mA). That's more than 10 Wh/$ or less than 100 $/kWh. Prevalence 18:40, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

Ragone plot

A Ragone plot would be useful to illustrate differences between battery types. Unfortunately, I could not find a free useful image. TGCP (talk) 01:25, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

List of missing battery types

Add batterie types here, or directly in the article. The reason for proposing this section is that people might discover missing types, but not have the patience or confidence to look up the figures of merit.

For example:

Lithium Thionyl Chloride (non rechargeable) 109.236.138.239 (talk) 02:38, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

The absence of the zinc chloride battery (the classic "Heavy Duty" to the carbon-zinc's "regular") is certainly baffling.71.105.190.227 (talk) 06:36, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

I believe zinc chloride batteries are the same as zinc–carbon batteries, but that article could be more clear on that point. jhawkinson (talk) 11:13, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

Lead Acid stats are out of date

I have modern AGM batteries which have a much higher energy density by volume than the quoted figures e.g.: [2] has an energy density of over 100Wh/L. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Grahamatwp (talk • contribs) 07:30, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

Sense of "Cost" column is inverted

When I look at a table and find a column called "Cost," I expect higher values to cost more. That is … not the case in this table. Cost is given in Wh/$, with dollars in the denominator, so that is…not great.

I guess this problem was introduced (or at least…made pellucid?) when Skrapion changed "Energy/consumer-price" to "Cost" in 2016. I'm not sure what the right fix is.

I recognize that the column is overloaded (dual loaded?) and after each cost Wh/$ value there is a parenthesized $/kWh. If anything, this seems to make it more confusing, not less. It requires more careful analysis to figure out what is going on and how to use the information. If I just naively wanted to sort the table by cost and not think too hard about it, all of this gets in the way.

Thoughts? jhawkinson (talk) 11:22, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

Acid or alkaline

Table states that electrolyte for rechargeable alkaline cells is H2SO4. Seems unlikely for “alkaline.” Source? 2603:8000:6D00:9F8:292A:6559:A653:90EB (talk) 15:53, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Wrong since the column was added in June 2023. Wikipedia, the only encyclopedia without any fact checking. Thanks for spotting this. --Wtshymanski (talk) 04:46, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

Silver-oxide

Are listed as non rechargeable and that is how they are mostly used, but they are rechargeable a limited number of times. I believe in the order of 50.

The Apollo CSM used silver-oxide batteries and recharged them.

To niche? Stunits (talk) 23:13, 17 July 2024 (UTC)