Talk:College of Cardinals/Archive 1

Archive 1

What has happened?

Is it just me - or has this page changed dramatically. It used to list the currently alive cardinals - now it seems to list the whole lot created since the time of Paul VI. Personally I preferred the currently alive cardinals, those being over 80 and therefore non-voting in a conclave duly asterisked. If there is need to mention other cardinals they should be in articles about the individual or about the diocese or dicastery or curial office to which they belong. It is my hope that someone will tidy this up and revert it to the alive cardinals again. My belief is that the College of Cardinals is a living organ of the Church and should only contain the living members of the College. Kiddo54 04:19, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

The idea of the College being a "living organ" of the Church is more in the realm of devoitional theology than an encyclopedia article. However, I agree with Kiddo on different grounds: it is defensible to either list only current cardinals (as this is a reference 'book") or ALL cardinals in history for the sake of completeness (this is impossible, as it wopuld require vast amounts of space for little benefit, and one can link to other sites that do have this information, or something close to it). Listing all cardinals appointed in -- what? the lifetime of a particular contributor? -- doesn't make any logical sense. Let's reduce this to the current members, with an asterisk for non-voters, as suggested.HarvardOxon 04:36, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

If there is a desire to maintain a more complete list of Cardinals in history one might adopt the rough structure used in this article but have separate articles for each pope. In other words, "Cardinals Created by Pope John Paul II", "Cardinals Created by Pope Leo XIII", etc. And those articles could then split the list by the various consistories held by that pope and would include links to both living and deceased. (And no, I'm not volunteering for this project - there are already several websites that provide the information in a useable format.)--Dcheney 00:14, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Cardinal Bishops

The current Cardinal Priests and Cardinal Deacons are listed under the Pope who appointed them a cardinal. Why was this removed from the Cardinal Bishops section (I'm assuming it was for page length reasons). GoodDay 16:02, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

The New Pope Turned 80 Years of Age on April 16,2008

Pope Benidict the 16th turn 80 years old in his pillgrimage to the United States. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.219.158.123 (talk) 00:54, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Proposed split

I propose that the list of current cardinals be split into a list article so free up space for the history, function, traditions, and significance of the College. Something like List of current Roman Catholic cardinals. Discuss. Savidan 00:01, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Latin title

The page currently states "(formal: Sacred College of the Holy Roman Church, Sancta Romana Ecclesia, S.R.E.)" but S.R.E. is simply the abbreviation for the Sancta Romana Ecclesia, which is the Latin title for the Roman Catholic church, not the College of Cardinals. Is the article trying to note that Cardinals append S.R.E. after their names in Europe? -114.91.67.127 (talk) 13:59, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Checking the Vatican City's official website, I couldn't find the "formal" title here given anywhere. The formal title appears to be sacrum cardinalium collegium (Sacred College of Cardinals), with the informal simply omitting the "sacred." If anyone restores the "Sacred College of the Holy Roman Church," please give a source. -114.91.67.127 (talk) 14:20, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

This anonymous editor did right in pointing to and correcting this mistake. It is true that, since cardinals are regularly described as "Cardinals of Holy Roman Church", you will sometimes meet, as in this 1993 speech by Pope John Paul II, the phrase "Collegium Cardinalium Sanctae Romanae Ecclesiae", but it is not a constantly used phrase.

In addition, "Sacred College of Cardinals" is no longer used. The adjective seems to have been dropped at the same time as it was for the Congregations of the Roman Curia, which until then were referred to as Sacred Congregations, but which appear for the first time simply as Congregations in the 1985 Annuario Pontificio. By force of habit and because no decree was issued about the matter, they continued for some time after 1985 to be referred to sometimes with the adjective "Sacred", which has by now disappeared completely. The latest document that adds the adjective "Sacred" to the name of the College of Cardinals is the 25 September 1988 Decree of Beatification of Joseph Benedict Dusmet. And a 1989 speech by Pope John Paul II quotes a 1973 speech that used the adjective. Soidi (talk) 17:51, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

2010 consistory

I believe there were 24 bishops elevated to cardinal. GoodDay (talk) 01:22, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

No, that's wrong! As of 20th of October, 22 of them were bishops, two only priests. Walter Brandmüller was consecrated bishop on 13th of November (Titular Archbishop of Cesarea in Mauretania), so that in fact 23 bishops and one priest (Domenico Bartolucci) have been elevated to cardinals. --Heraklitcnl (talk) 22:25, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

195 cardinals?

What is our basis for saying there are 195 Cardinals at the moment? When I count the list, it comes up short. 82.24.248.137 (talk) 20:40, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

So you've to recount the list. In fact there are 195 persons listed here (as of today ;-)) --Heraklitcnl (talk) 21:10, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

I also come up with exactly 195 Cardinals.--Dcheney (talk) 21:20, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Premature Updates (turning 80)

Please note that cardinals do not lose the right to vote in a conclave (under current law) until the end of the day that they turn 80. So if a cardinal turns 80 on 26 November, they don't lose their vote until that day is complete (aka, 27 November). (Source: Universi Dominici Gregis, 33).--Dcheney (talk) 12:30, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

List

Why do we maintain a list of cardinals in this entry when a superior sortable list is maintained at List of living cardinals? Can't we just point readers there for the list and stop the multiple updates? Am I missing something?

I think diffs between the two are minor and easily worked out. I just added xrefs to bits like SJ on List of living cardinals and I don't think the fact that one list uses SJ and the other S.J. is of importance.

See the suggestion made above six years ago at #Proposed split.

Bmclaughlin9 (talk) 20:16, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

Urban II

The article states: "In 1130, under Urban II, all the classes were permitted to take part in papal elections; up to this point, only cardinal-bishops had this role." - Urban II died in 1099, so either the year or the name of the pope is incorrect here. Which is it? - Andre Engels (talk) 20:13, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

You are right, and the cited source, which does say what is in the article, is wrong. Esoglou (talk) 20:36, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

It looks like it was Nicholas II Brendan98 (talk) 20:39, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

wait no that's not right Brendan98 (talk) 20:40, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

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