Talk:Colin Powell/Archive 1

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A question for American Wikipedians - is the pronounciation of "Colin" in "Colin Powell" the typical American pronounciation of the name? In Australia, the typical pronounciation of that first name is "Col-in" with the first syllable rhyming with "doll", and I'm wondering whether Mr. Powell's version is just the typical US pronounciation or something idiosyncratic to him. --Robert Merkel

I can't speak for all Americans but the only time I have heard "Colin" (koh'lin) or its spelling variants pronounced the way Powell does, is in relation to Powell. The other pronunciations I've heard are variants of kah'len or kah'lin (very similar to your example). This choice of common pronunciation might have something to do with the similarity of our pronunciation of the former general's first name and colon (koh'lon). I know I wouldn't want to have a name that sounded like a part of the digestive system -- but then, that's just me. --maveric149

I believe that Colin Powell's name is pronounced like "colon" because one of his parents is Jamaican, and that may be the Jamaican pronounciation. Ordinarily, "Colin" is pronunced as you both state.

-Ben

My understanding is that Powell changed the pronunciation of his first name to "colon" when he was a youth out of admiration for a famous World War II pilot, but I can't seem to find a source for that. - Walkiped 23:15, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)

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Per the Center for Responsive Politics:

As a civilian, Colin Powell served on two corporate boards: Gulfstream Aerospace and America Online. Gulfstream Aerospace makes specialty jets for Hollywood movie stars and for foreign governments, like Kuwait and Saudi Arabia--two countries Powell got to know well in his role as chairmen of the Joint Chiefs of Staff during the Gulf War. The company was bought out by defense contractor General Dynamics in 1999. The former general also earned a nice windfall when AOL finally merged with Time Warner earlier this year. His stock in the company reportedly increased in value by $4 million. Powell's son, Michael, was the only commissioner at the Federal Communications Commission who advocated letting the AOL-Time Warner deal go through without scrutiny. President Bush recently named Michael Powell chairman of the FCC. The agency will soon consider whether to allow AOL to keep its monopoly on the "instant messaging" technology it developed for the Internet.

This bit was added. The Center for Responsive Politics has this to say as a copyright notice:

"Feel free to distribute or cite this material, but please credit the Center for Responsive Politics."

This is ambiguous as to whether it qualifies for GFDL re-distributability. For example, they may not wish their content to be redistributed in modified form, which would mean we would have to make it an invariant clause; something which violates our copyright statement (that we have no invariant clauses). I am contacting the Center to get a clarification of their copyright. DanKeshet

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Thanks for checking up on this. I added this after reviewing the copyright notice on the Center for Responsive Politics, but didn't think about the issues of invariance. I'm glad to see that you didn't just remove the information without comment; this information was important to me. Bobby Martin

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I don't object to inclusion of the info on My Lai etc., but at least write it decently, and give some thought as to where in the article it belongs, instead of just tacking it on at the end. -- John Owens 07:42 Apr 3, 2003 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm tired and lagged to woe-be-gone. Yes it was badly written. But if that's the case why not re-write it, or redact it while mentioning it? Where would you put it?

Ie: Wikipedia:Our_Replies_to_Our_Critics "However, this does not mean that idiosyncratic points of view are silenced or deleted;"... ummm, maybe not? :)

~ender

Ahem, what part of "I don't object to..." and "at least write it decently" don't you understand? But not having the sources you presumably do, I don't know just how to write it correctly. And if there's not a general consensus on whether or not he was involved in Iran/Contra, for example (I'm not saying I know whether or not there is), use "Some detractors say..." kind of phrasing, to keep NPOV. -- John Owens

I understand both of those. However, stylistically, I like to take crap and make it better. Not just delete things. Maybe it should be moved to talk, so people get a chance to look at it and make it better - if you don't want it cluttering up your article. Yeah, not able to dig up some primary sources (military stuff for quotes on My Lai), or I would. Maybe I'll get a chance to go to Uni w/free time on my hands. Just saying that I think deleting facts is bad personal policy. ~ender

Actually, the 23rd Infantry Division *IS* called Americal: http://www.americal.org/

Here's the rest of the information you deleted.

Powell secretly transferred missiles from the Army to the CIA, to enable Iran-Contra affair.

And during the Second Gulf War, Powell targeted for destruction Iraq's water systems, power supplies, civilian factories, and other non-military targets like bus stations, bridges, marketplaces and mosques. http://www.newsreview.com/issues/reno/2002-10-10/news.asp

~ender 2003-04-13 01:34:MST

OK, heh, I feel pretty silly about the "Americal" thing now. In the paragraph directly above, by "Second Gulf War", are you counting the Iran-Iraq War, and meaning the '90-'91 affair, or this year's events? The newsreview.com link above is giving me a 404. Also, is the missile transfer something established during the hearings, a widely accepted belief, or a claim by a few? And I would suggest calling that section something other than "Some Career Highlights"; it comes off a bit too ironically that way to be NPOV. Overall, a much better addition this time, thank you. :) -- John Owens 09:50 Apr 13, 2003 (UTC)

• Was wondering why you'd redacted that little statement :)
• Yeah, counting like this, so if there's one that can be #1, then the second should be preferentially treated as #2, we shouldn't start counting only US involvement.
• Hrmm, I was *JUST* at the newsreview site. Luckily I archived it, and it should still be google cached.
• I do not have good sources for the missile transfer at this time, that's why it's on talk, so people can see it, and hopefully come up with some better documentation for it. Otherwise nobody knows it needs doing.
• I don't care what the section is called. I'm not sure it should even *BE* a section, but you didn't like it tacked on the end, and it doesn't merge nicely into the other stuff above (too much detail in one area, and not enough in another). So like I said, dunno what to do about it. I just want to get it shoehorned in there somehow...

~ender 2003-04-13 03:08 MST

OK, newsreview.com is working again now, whyever that was. I'll look it over, then. -- John Owens

Having read that, I don't see how it really bears on that. It doesn't even make claims that Powell designated those as targets, that they were designated targets at all (vs. being a side-effect of less-than-pinpoint accuracy, a la the Chinese embassy, etc.), or even that much of the above was damaged. It only mentions in passing "...bombed but reconstructed government factories and ministries as well as restored power and water plants.... flattened houses and apartment buildings.... (Iraqi neighbours) recall incidents of bombed bridges, marketplaces, bus stations, factories and mosques where civilians died", and gives no evidence for how she can tell a bombed and reconstructed building from an unbombed constructed building (i.e., just about any other building). I suppose "government factories" could be technically called civilian factories, but even that's a bit of a stretch; calling them civilian implies that they're privately held, to the casual reader. (On third or fourth re-reading, I'm thinking you may have gotten that term from the "where civilians died" part.) And then, when she talks about the "Highway of Death", she's only claiming that these things happened, with little evidence, and not even speculation as to how, why, or who ordered it. So, I can't really take that as supporting the above paragraph in a meaningful way.

As for a section title, what would you say to something like "Controversial acts" or some such? And the "Probably because the US military... had accompanied the Israeli military on its attack on Jenin" part is rather speculative and POV as well. -- John Owens 11:35 Apr 13, 2003 (UTC)

Yea, I don't have documents in my hot little hands where Powell sayd, "Bomb me a mosque!" - however in order to get to that assertation, we need to build up some evidence, for example the fact that mosques were hit. That's one of the reasons that info is not out there on the main page. Highway of Death is supported in other places. Hey, change the title on the paragraph, intergrate it into the main text (which is what I'd like, but I'm lacking in how to do it right now). Well, if USMC claims they were there, that's good enough for me. As for the attribution as to why he covered it up - this is true, I don't know that that is THE reason why. However, I can't think of a better reason to come out so contrary to other people's observations. And US military attacking Jenin does have bearing on US officials talking about Jenin doesn't it? So yeah, that section can be reworded - feel free to take a stab at it. We don't bite.

~ender 2003-04-14 11:53 MST

If someone is gonna make a section entitled "Career Highlights" I think it should include some "highlights" other than simply the two most damning possible ancedotes you can possibly find. If you ask me, akwardly adding "damning" bits to the end of politician bios is too widespread in Wikipedia. user:J.J. 11:30, May 5, 2003

I agree. Moving it here for now, until someone writes up a more balanced "career highlights" that actually includes some of his highlights. If someone wnats to write up these controversial issues, they should go somewhere else, like possibly under Jenin massacre or My Lai massacre, maybe with a link from here noting Powell had some involvement in their investigation. I don't think he had any major roles though; he was more of a PR guy. Delirium 03:52 2 Jul 2003 (UTC)

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Here's the stuff that was moved (-Delirium):

Some Career Highlights

In April 2002 as Secretary of State, Colin Powell testified to Congress on the Jenin Massacre, "I've seen no evidence of mass graves ... no evidence that would suggest a massacre took place ... Clearly people died in Jenin - people who were terrorists died in Jenin - and in the prosecution of that battle innocent lives may well have been lost." Probably because the US military, under the auspices of learning about urban warfare, had accompanied the Israeli military on its attack on Jenin (Marine Corps Times, 5-31-2002).

Major Colin Powell, as deputy assistant chief of staff at the Americal, or 23rd Infantry Division, was charged with investigating a detailed letter by Tom Glen (a soldier from the 11th Light Infantry Brigade), which backed up rumored allegations of the My Lai massacre. Powell became the author of a cover-up of My Lai when he wrote: "In direct refutation of this portrayal is the fact that relations between American soldiers and the Vietnamese people are excellent."

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I have substantially reworked the piece, along the lines of the suggestions above. I re-included

• My Lai
• Jenin

added

• AOL
• WMDs

I commented out the stuff on awards. If anyone feels strongly that it should be included, they can uncomment it. Also, still no mention of race, like highest ranking Black in Army, first Black SoS. Necessary? I'll let someone else tackle this though...

 -- 
 Viajero 11:13 2 Jul 2003 (UTC)

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I replaced the photo of Powell as JCS chair with one taken since he became SoS...I thought the other pict was out of place.

hoshie

African-American

In regards to the first sentence: ...highest ranking African-American government official in the United States.

Is it correct to refer to Colin Powell as African-American since his parent's are Jamaican? Would it be culturally insensitive to change this to "black government official?" Does Colin Powell refer to himself as an African-American? - Jaybuffington

British usage would probably have said he is "Afro-Caribbean" by descent, but this causes problems too. But why mention highest ranking at all? He is only temporarily Secretary of State, but no-one can deny his being the first black man to have challenged the traditionally all-white preserves in the State Department and Joint Chiefs of Staff. And of course Powell may quite rightly regard himself as simply American --garryq 13:47, 22 May 2004 (UTC)

I say mention he's black, and perhaps add an explanation as to why he shouldn't be labelled African American. I changed the first mention of it to see how it goes over; I have not touched the later mention yet, because I wanted to see if it would be reverted or not. Perhaps someone should ask Colin himself how he feels? --Golbez 15:16, 28 May 2004 (UTC)

I'm not sure "black" is appropriate either, given that his skin is about the same color as Bush's. Is there any other term we can use? Pterodactyler 15:03, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

Resignation

According to today's New York Times, he submitted his resignation on Friday (11/12), not today (11/15). --Feitclub 15:15, Nov 15, 2004 (UTC)

Yeah, but nobody noticed till today. He seemed so fit! 129.10.68.232 15:18, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

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I changed "not selected yet" to "Condoleeza Rice" in the "sucessor" category, okay? --NoPetrol 03:34, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

She has to be confirmed by congress yet. It's OKAY if we don't put her immediately in the secretary seat; there is a progress, and until them, he is STILL the secretary of state. --Golbez 03:35, Nov 16, 2004 (UTC)

Place of Birth

I just noticed that it says in the column that he was born in Atlanta but in the text that he was born in New York City! Can someone do an exhaustive Google search to figure out which is correct and change. That's a pretty big discrepencacy. Thanks! Moncrief 08:14, Nov 16, 2004 (UTC)

• Looks like it's New York City. See http://www.whitehouse.gov/government/powell-bio.html among others. Fixed. Moncrief 08:18, Nov 16, 2004 (UTC)

Bolton

I wasn't sure where to put the section on Powell's opposition to John Bolton's nomination, so I included it in the civilian life section. Is that fine, or should I create a new section about his life after resigning from the SOS position? --JamesB3 22:45, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

• I think he does need a post-SOS section. He'll be doing much more before he dies, so why not add it in? I'll do it now. --Harro5 23:52, Apr 23, 2005 (UTC)

edit - apologies for previous (now removed) post, based on a couple of searches it appears possible -anon

Actually, I have a question about the Bolton section - Sidney Blumenthal has, in at least one unrelated instance, misrepresented some facts: http://powerlineblog.com/archives/010635.php

It might be worth double-checking to see if anyone else has reported that Secretary Powell is trying to sink that nomination. -- HaroldHutchison 16:22 EDT, 28 June 2005

POV?

In the early 1980s, Powell served at Fort Carson, Colorado. It was there that he had a major clash with General John Hudachek his commander. Hudachek was a dour, prickly man who disliked Powell.

Well, did Powell say so in his book? -- Toytoy 03:36, May 24, 2005 (UTC)

Critisism section

I'd like to add an explicit section in the article on the critisism Powell has accummulated during his course in politics, specifically from harry belafonte. can i?

Project2501a 01:24, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Balloonfoot?

Anyobody know the origin/meaning of the "Balloonfoot" nickname? Is it a reference to Powell's foot injury in Vietnam? Pterodactyler 14:57, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

Powell Aide Regrets Lying to UN

I always admired CP as the dove general, despite personal dismay at his halting the US Army at the outskirts of Baghdad in the Gulf War.

I would very much like to see a confession for lying about the weapons of mass destruction (WMD) speech to the UN.

Along w/ the Schwarzkopf speech denouncing the Viet Nam War as a war crime, I think this could be one of the most significant statements by a US general.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/08/19/powell.un/ "I wish I had not been involved in it," says Col. Lawrence Wilkerson, a longtime Powell adviser who served as his chief of staff from 2002 through 2005. "I look back on it, and I still say it was the lowest point in my life."

Broken link

-link to the DoS site for the remarks with the foreign minister is broken, please fix. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.203.199.223 (talk) 00:24, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Errors on page?

Did General Powell serve in South Korea in the late 1970s? If not, then there are errors in the article. For example, the article states: "As a young Colonel serving in South Korea, for example, Powell was very close to General Henry "Gunfighter" Emerson." But under Dates of rank, it states he did not make colonel until 1976. The DMV would be a possible place to serve following the Vietnam conflict, but the article should be more clear on this point. Another issue is the matter of highest ranking. Since my ancestors are only most remotely from Africa, I will not claim whether the General is or is not an African American. I wonder about the office that garnered him this claim. Doesn't the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff outrank the Secretary of State? Perhaps it should say "civilian government official" or "civil government official". -Acjelen 04:53, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Powell served as a battalion commander in South Korea for a year, from 1973 to 1974, at which stage his rank was Lieutenant Colonel (a rank for which the correct term of address is still "Colonel"). Still, I'll modify the line to make it a bit clearer for most readers. As for the highest ranking issue, senior civilian government officials always outrank military officers, including the JCS. That's part of the principle of civilian oversight of the military. — Impi 11:16, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

battalion commander equals rank of captain or major.. in Vietnam you said he was a major. a Lieutenant Colonel outranks a Major.. how is this possible? in Korea was a LtColonel and in vietnam .. 10 years later was a Major???

In case this is not clear to anyone else, he served as a LTC under occupation in the country of Korea after the Vietnam war. He was not involved in the korean conflict. Leppy 04:32, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

I have a problem with this sentance:

He appeared on the networks that were broadcasting New Year's Eve specials and talked about this honor, as well as being a native of New York City, ABC, CNN, [8] and Fox News Channel.

Does this mean that he is also a native of ABC,CNN and the Fox News Channel? Because those are networks, not locations.RiseRobotRise 18:34, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

He served as a LTC in Korea from 1973-1974 20 years after the Korean War ended. We still have troops in Korea. The Korean War ended in 1953. Powell did not become an officer till 1958. In the late '60s & early '70ws there was limited fighting taking place in Korea. I believe around 70 US Army troops where killed during that period. It was not full scale war. It was mostly ambushes and sparadoic attacks.

Political Views - the citation listed for "fucking crazies" is an article in the Guardian. However, the Guardian cites the book cites the James Naughtie book The Accidental American: Tony Blair and the Presidency. The entry mentions the Naughtie book in the next sentence as a second reference, which is incorrect. It is more appropriate to cite the Naughtie book as a primary source, not the Guardian story.

There are no records of Colin Powell becoming an honorary member of Sigma Phi Epsilon —Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.101.1.115 (talk) 21:49, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

WMD & Security Council

I can't believe how good this article is, given the number of contributors. On the WMD thing at the security council, I recall a documentary in which Powell himself stated that, in order to fix responsibility for the intelligence he was about to rely upon in his presentation, he made sure that George Tenet was seated directly behind him. Assuming the recollection is accurate, then it does demonstrate quite a devious and compromised way of thinking, perhaps confirming the qualities shown by him in the My Lai and Jenin episodes.--shtove 20:20, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

It would be nice if we could use this pic: http://www.abc.net.au/news/galleries/2003/powell/images/pic14.jpg (I'm not sure about the licence) but it's a precious moment of history. AdrianTM 22:11, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

I would be interested in what others felt at the moment when they heard the speech at the UN. I was in my car, and thought it was a weak and un pursuasive arguemtn, but I am very leftwing and biased against the Bush administration. At one point, Powell played a tape of an Iraqi officer angry that his subordinate had a better vehicle. And I thougth, of course - as in any institution in the world, a boss gets angry when the underling has a better office/secretary, whatever.Cinnamon colbert 20:31, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

I assumed that Iraq did have weapons of mass destruction, because the US supplied them with WMD in order to help them fight the Iranians and Kurds. But this is an emotive term - I assumed they had small remnants of chlorine gas and anthrax and no way to deliver them. So I paid no real attention to the speech. It surprised me later to find that Powell and Blair were arguing that Iraq had the power to threaten the US. But go back and read what Powell said. The claims were incredible and totally unpersuasive to any informed person. --70.53.43.178 08:19, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes, granted. But they persuaded the UN Security Council, among others the ambassadors of China and Russia at the UN. So, there is only one word which defines Colin Powell: swindler. He is the biggest swindler in world history. He faked a casus belli before the United Nations, live on television. The idea that he was cheated by Curveball's testimony is ludicrous, because Powell is no amateur. He consciously spread Curveball's phony claims. He said that there was not one Curveball, but three of him, who were direct witnesses to the Iraqi WMD program. Perhaps he was a bit drunken and he saw more men in place of one. Tgeorgescu (talk) 14:23, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Russia, China, et al were not pursuaded because Colin was lying, but because they knew he was telling the truth. Pretty ignorant and arrogant of you to think you know more than all the intelligence agencies of the countries on the UN security council, IMO.

But let's try to find some balance here. It is clear the Sadam was pursuing WMDs, no one even reasonable objective denies that and no one seriously refutes it. As congress overwhelmingly agreed under bipartisan support for the invasion. The bone of contention is not actually whether Sadam was pursing WMDs, but whether inaccurate and incomplete evidence was presented in making the case for the war. Which seems to be the case. The article focused only on the later point and deliberately abscures the former. I have corrected this by adding a couple of reference supporting the conculsion Sadam was seeking WDMs, while leaving in credible sources qustioning the quality of the intel used to support it. This is a more balanced approach and also shows more clearly Gen. Powell's historic role in the controversy.

If we include heresay by interested parties (on both sides of the isle) from political talk shows (including notoriously inaccurate and partison NPR/PBS), we will end up rehashing the entire WMD debate and this is an article on POWELL, not WMDs, so please keep this section balanced and credible with _appropriate_ and cited references.

Thanks ~KC —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dchamberss (talk • contribs) 18:30, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Powell's contribution to drop in USA's popularity

At the time I write this, the following sentences are in the Powell article:-

Powell's great asset was his tremendous popularity among the American people. However, over the course of his tenure he traveled less than any other U.S. Secretary of State in 30 years, which may have contributed to the declining image of the United States abroad.

I raise a couple of points. Firstly, there needs to be substantial evidence that it was Powell's decision to travel less that caused this, given so many other very significant events, namely September 11 and the Iraq war.

Also, are we talking of popularity with the world's citizens (the sentence before talks about popularity with the American people) or popularity with other world leaders? I can understand an unwillingness to travel may be a setback diplomatically, but, until further evidence is produced, I am willing to believe that many people not in the US, much prefer Colin Powell's dovish doctrine to that of President Bush.

I am not saying that Powell has not contributed to America's loss of popularity, but I think there needs to be some evidence presented if the article is to say this.

(For the record, I live in the UK)

--Philipdw 21:41, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Future Government Career?

Anyone know if he plans on running for President, or Vice President in '08?

When asked in a Daily Telegraph interview in February 2005 if he had ambitions for further public office, he said:

"Ambitions, no. Plans, no. But who knows what the future holds? Run for office? Absolutely not."

Grant 12:47, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Military decorations

I just updated and corrected the military decorations based on the page's jpg photo; however, I now have some questions. (1) What is the source of this photograph as being General Powell's? (2) Why is this different than upper-body biography photo, which has less awards? (3) I added reference to the Good Conduct Medal with silver (4) loop (aka, 9 awards) - HOWEVER, why is an officer receiving the Good Conduct Medal; all I read is that it is an enlisted award. :djharrity 17:44, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Officers can be awarded the Good Conduct Medal if the have at least three years of active military service as an enlisted man. Since Colin Powell was never an enlisted man he would not have the medal.

Please note that Powell, being Jamaican born, it is not constitutionally possible for him to run for the office of (vice)president.

Colin Powell was born in New York. So he could run for President or Vice President. Bunns USMC 15:21, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

I added his Order of Bath to his Military decorations as is awards was in the Military Divtion of the order

I removed the section "Awards and decorations" as it included only 3 military awards that were already covered in the more exstensive "Military Medals and Ribbons" section immedeately below it. (Sonlee 19:27, 7 October 2007 (UTC))

Coat of Arms

It is stated that the Lord Lyon's Heraldic authority was asked to devise his heraldic acheivement because of his Scottish Ancestry. Whilst his ancestry may be in part Scottish (Powell is in fact a Welsh surname), this would have no bearing on the Lord Lyon's involvement. It is customary for the arms of Commonwealth subjects to be granted through the Scottish Heraldic Authority - this would hav been the case even if Powell's father lived in England now, and would be the case for any Commonwealth subjects - except Canadians who now have their own College of Arms. I have amended the text int he article accordingly.

It would be nice to have an illustration of the arms, or at least a link to one, for those of us who don't speak Heraldic.... Isaac (talk) 21:38, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Personal background

As far as I can tell, this section was removed without explanation on [[3 whose talk page consists of two vandal warnings. So I've put it back – hopefully, tailored to fit in with intervening edits.Grant 23:59, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

I DONT KNOW WHY PEOPLE WANT TO LABLE PEOPLE BLACK JUST BECUSE ONES OF THERE PARENTS WHERE BLACK OR HAVE BLACK IN THERE PAST BACKGROWN IN THERE FAMILY. THIS DOES NOT MAKE ONE BLACK,IT MAKE THEM MULTIRACIAL/MIXEDRACE. (someone else)

I agree although a different term to mixed race like how they have terms for 'brown', light brown, dark brown, yellow, in Brazil and Dominican Republic. I'm getting seriously fed up with these articles. If so many of us are contesting and unhappy with the way people are labelled, and want for mixed race identities to be recognised, then why is it constantly being battled against? We need to get rid of the on-drop rule once and for all. (Invertedzero (talk) 11:05, 6 September 2008 (UTC))

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/onpolitics/elections/gop2000guide/powellpost.htm --while totally unrelated to what is discussed above, I think the pronounciation of Powell's first name referenced in this article deserves adding. Basically it states that going by Koh-lin instead of Kah-lin was actually a conscious choice of his made as a young man...but seeing as I haven't put forth the effort to create an account I'll leave it to you diligent wikifolk. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.152.108.239 (talk) 01:34, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Yellowcake forgery

The article currently says regarding Powell's UN presentation:

Some of the claims were taken out, but others were left in, such as claims based on the yellowcake forgery.

Which is footnoted to http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0715-05.htm

The yellowcake example doesn't show up in that article and Yellowcake forgery#Butler Report says that Conclusion 499 of the Butler Report says that the British Government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa" was well-founded so its misleading to call it the yellowcake forgery, when Colin's point was supported and not believed to have been from a forged document.

Let's take it out.

on the yellowcake discussion page, User:RonCram says:

"Colin Powell’s speech does not mention the yellowcake documents. I have searched the entire transcript of his speech before the UN for the words “Niger” and “yellowcake” and neither appear. In addition, the US Report on PreWar Intelligence (page 68) also says Powell did not use the claim in his speech."

69.220.35.202 04:44, 18 June 2006 (UTC)Rabbi-m

U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell referred to the documents directly in his presentation to the U.N. Security Council outlining the Bush administration's case against Iraq. [1] Añoranza 05:25, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

There is a source, reverting in spite of this is vandalism. Añoranza 06:03, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

I believe more discussion is needed. If indeed User:RonCram is correct then I see no reason to reinstate it, you're pushing your POV again. ← ΣcoPhreek _contribs^talk→ 08:40, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

two copies of a full transcript of Powell's remarks: a copy on CNN's own website The US Govt website

Neither contain a reference to Niger or yellowcake. The only references to uranium are about enriching it, not acquiring it.

Thus, it seems the CNN story referenced above is wrong.

Rabbi-m

he simply says that Iraq had been trying to acquire uranium: ironically it's Powell's statement that is unsourced. Doesn't really change the fact that Powell lied like a dog throughout the entire speech (and knew he was lying) but the stronger statement about yellowcake is incorrect.

Ancestry

Burke's Peerage, which remains unimpeachable, did not speak of Powell's ancestry; that was the considerably more dodgy Harold Brooks-Baker, who was not a professional genealogist and generally did not reveal his research, while trading on the Burke's name. The claim is most likely bogus. See also Most royal candidate theory. --Dhartung | Talk 09:48, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Proposed removal of "African-American" tags

I think that Colin Powell being categorized as an "african american" is kind of a misnomer because he is jamaican, not african. See, that is whats wrong with the label "african american". It is very presumptuous, since black people don't just come from Africa. Maybe you should reconsider your categorizations more carefully. 19:50, 5 August 2006 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.46.216.255 (talk • contribs) .

In reply to the above: However, the black people of Jamaica DID come from Africa.

So? He's like...African-English-Jamaican-American then! The whole racial thing shouldn't be an issue in my judgement. I think years from now, humans will look back and be ashamed that race was even noticed. --Raogden 23:49, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

I removed the text which said he's not African, which is inaccurate. Also it claimed that Colin Powell said he wasn't African American. Source for that quote? Whether it's a misnomer or not, Colin Powell is the first African American secretary of state, at least according to the state department:[2] Pfalstad 22:20, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Powell's ancestry is Jamaican, as his parents are immigrants from said country. Referring to him as "African-American" is therefore incorrect and rather stereotypical. --AWF—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.54.155.46 (talk) 06:17, 16 February 2007 (UTC).

I agree. Colin Powell is more correctly referred to as a Jamaican-African-American or as a Caribbean-African-American. Contemporary use of the term African-American refers to those Americans of African descent that trace their heritage to the black experience in America before the 20th century. - JC — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.141.119.161 (talk) 08:01, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Wait a minute. So Barak Obama is African American but Colin Powell isn't? That's BS. Colin Powell is an AMERICAN of AFRICAN descent. That's pretty simple isn't it?Scott Free 17:56, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Not quite - if we're going to be accurate he's an American of African and European descent. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.3.85.154 (talk) 18:05, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

In his book "My American Journey" Colin Powell says himself that he is not african american. His family is not from africa at all. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.106.21.3 (talk) 02:13, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

People. He is not from Africa! His parents aren't from Africa. He is of Jamaican descent. How could he possibly be 'AFRICAN AMERICAN"? I don't want to start flaming but how much more fucking simple can it get? Some people's political correctness gets in the way of their brains.

According to the biography, "Soldier", Powell wouldn't want to be discussed in terms of his race, but rather in terms of his achievments... and rightly so. Why not remove this unecessary moniker. Leave such references in the proper section, on his heritage as a black Jamaican, Jamaican of African descent, whatever. Colin Powell transcends race to become simple a great "American". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dchamberss (talk • contribs) 23:05, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Why can't any of you people have rspect for someone's identity? If colin's recent ancestry relates back to Jamaica, then he's jamaican american, as jamaicans are not made up simply of one race of people, and are now an identity in their own right. Jamaica even has a notably different culture to some of those in Africa, so if you wanted a specific term he'd be Jamaican American, if more general, Carribean American. Why can't your counry just sort out all its race labelling issues... (93.97.78.171 (talk) 10:36, 6 September 2008 (UTC))

The description of African-American is technically accurate as Africa is the cradle of civilization, where the human race originated from. Perhaps Powell hasn't had an ancestor born in Africa for hundreds of years, certainly Jamaican-American would be more accurate but he is an American and as an American seen as he is black, or at least with black ancestry he is an African-American. Irish-American, African-American, Jewish-American, Latin-American, Indian-American, Asian-American, they may seem broad, silly and inaccurate labels to us, but in American culture the trend has developed to embrace the hyphenated American label and stick everyone in it on the basis of skin colour or parentage.--EchetusXe (talk) 14:08, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Colin Powell refers to himself as "African American". He recently said: "I stand before you tonight as an African American. Many people have said to me you became Secretary of State of the USA, is it still necessary to say that you are an African American or that you are black, and I say yes, so that we can remind our children.

It took a lot of people struggling to bring me to this point in history. I didn't just drop out of the sky, people came from my continent in chains."

Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/3198991/Colin-Powell-shows-off-his-hip-hop-dance-moves.html Source: http://ukpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5gEaqCiS8QEFj_Mryomix9gHmMk4A Source: http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/66421/Colin-Powell-stuns-music-fans-with-hip-hop-dance/Stagolee (talk) 15:25, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

non-Caucasian ?

I am not sure he is the highest ranking "non-caucasian" in U.S. History, what about Charles Curtis?

66.72.215.225 21:56, 11 September 2006 (UTC)jme

• I think this is based on the United States order of precedence, in which case it is correct. Harro5 11:22, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Charles Curtis was a Vice President, which is second in the order of precedence. He seems to have been half Native American, making him the highest ranking non-Caucasian official in U.S. history. -- Mattworld (talk to me) 05:41, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

I believe "non-caucasian" should be removed as he evidently is at least half white (probably more). There is no damn way he is pure black; therefore, calling him "non-Caucasian" is incorrect. Animalcroc 18:26, 13 March 2007 (UTC)animalcroc

colin powell is as "pure" black as pretty much any average black american. both parents are black. they (the parents) of course have some mixed ancestry somewhere in their line. i doubt anyone in the western hemisphere is "pure" anything. not every black american is dark skinned.Scott Free 15:13, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

You americans are messed up... not in how you are, but in the way you label things. Get rid of the one-drop rule, frankly half of us are sick of it and its racist connotations. Colin Powell is probably 'black' under culture but obviously not in appearance, it really makes no sense when his skin colour is far nearer to white than black as a colour. You need more terms for describing people as they do in Latin America where a lot of the populatio of certain countries is mixed. They have terms for black, dark, light, white etc but it doesn't class them as seperate cultures, its well regarded that many people fit into families of a similar culture. if you want true equality in America, abolish the one-drop rule and describe people as they appear to be. It has implications on the rest of us directly mixed individuals who choose to identify as mixed or biracial in respect of both our cultures, but when someone like Colin Powell is regarded as black, it has implications on our freedom to identify as we choose. This needs to be dealt with, as a large proportion of mixed race people are unhappy with not having their identity being respected. (93.97.78.171 (talk) 10:24, 6 September 2008 (UTC))

why are there no sources anywhere in this article?

i want to reference individual parts that are innaccurate, but the whole dang thing has no references, no sources, nothing!

who wants to do the deleting?

I attached an appropriate template to the article. For future reference, you can add such a warning to the top of an article by placing the text {{references}} above the article's content. A parallel templates to warn the reader of an alleged lack of neutrality is {{npov}}. Daniel Bush 12:49, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

I believe "non-caucasian" should be removed as he evidently is at least half white (probably more). There is no damn way he is pure black; therefore, calling him "non-Caucasian" is incorrect.

Just shows really how irrelavent the term black is now. To someone that's of dark skin its more representative as white is to pale skinned people, but for all us brownies in between the term black is irrelavent and means nothing. The two groups get to be described by skin colour, so then why aren't people in between? Even though i dislike the term african-american, i feel it is more accurate than the term black, which many of us find to be derogatory simply for the fact that everyone with a bit of brown colour is labelled it. Invertedzero —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.97.78.171 (talk) 12:40, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

White appearance

How come he looks white in some photos on the page? Is it something to do with the camera flash? Scott Gall 07:17, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Some black people become pale when they become old. I think the melanin becomes weak with age or something like that. Jigen III 10:13, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

In General Powell's case, he was always relatively (for a black man) pale skinned, even as a younger man. User:Spock 156.34.75.124 23:19, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

lol well der he isn't black then... argh black is such an irrelavant term. Black (if anything) should refer to people of a dark skin colour, then if not brown, light brown, yellow, olive etc. This is why racial categorisation is so messed up because its so inconsistent. If a system's gonna be made do it properly, if not abandon all calssification whatsoever so that either way its fair and not derogatory. (93.97.78.171 (talk) 10:27, 6 September 2008 (UTC))

Medals and ribbons

Is it really possible that he was awarded the Distinguished Service Medal in the Air Force, Navy and Coast Guard? Obviously he's able to be awarded the Army version, but I thought the others were restricted to personnel from their services. Is someone playing funny buggers?? -- Lima Golf 10:35, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

It's possible, but it's obvious from the photograph of him on Wikipedia and every other photo of him along with all available online written sources that he did not have the Navy or Coast Guard DSM's. Likewise, there is no soruce for the claim that he was awarded the "V" device for his bornze star. As such, I have removed those awards from the list. I would ask that anyone wishing to make claims to the contrary first provide a source (either written or photographic) prior to undoing the edit as no source (save for the picture of him in uniform) has yet been provided. (Sonlee 19:48, 7 October 2007 (UTC))

According to this: http://www.jcs.mil/cjs/history_files/bios/powell_bio.pdf He did not recieve a V device for his Bronze star and did recieve the Coast Guard, Navy and Air Force Distinguished Service Medals. Thus I removed the V device from his Bronze Star and will add the medal from other serives.

References cleanup

I have converted all embedded HTML links to footnotes, using the Wikipedia:Citation templates. I've also cleaned up some redundant citations and external links, and corrected some punctuation. This article is still hideously under-referenced, though. Please add good references if you can. Thanks! --Plek 21:18, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

{trashy expletive "graffiti" deleted}

My-Lai quote is incorrect

The proper quote references 'Americal' forces rather than 'American' forces. Look it up, people. 24.163.91.2 21:34, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Combat

was he ever in combat? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.26.103.71 (talk) 05:50, 17 March 2007 (UTC). Yes. In Vietnam

Affiliation/US Army

This is NOT a question about this article... but is it normal practice in the USA to state "United States Army" for generals? Commonwealth generals don't put "XYZ Regiment"/"Royal Air Force"/etc once they get to 1-star (2-star?) rank (ranks under them, however, do). Just curious. 202.89.155.157 06:32, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it is common for ALL US officers (not just generals) to attach their affiliated branch. For example, Lieutenant Colonel, US Army (retired). Why the difference from the Commonwealth? I'm not sure. It IS true, however, that when addressed in person, on a letter, or in an invitation, the correct form is: "General (LAST NAME--no mention of branch of service)", regardless of whether (s)he is/was a 1-4 star general. Likewise, the next two levels below General will be referred to as "Colonel (LAST NAME--no branch)" in those circumstances, regardless of whether the officer is/was a full colonel (O-6) or a Lieutenant Colonel. Finally, lieutenants get the same treatmentas there are First and Second lieutenants in the Army, Marines, and Air Force. The Navy, however, is different (The Navy has an "Ensign" rank, which is the equivalent of a second lieutenant in the others. The Navy rank of "Lieutenant(Junior Grade)" is the equivalent of a first lieutenant in the others and a Navy Lieutenant is the equivalent of an Army Captain. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.97.46.149 (talk) 11:59, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Requested improvement in article

Colin Powell pronounces his first name CO-LAND, unlike the common pronounciation in England (COWL-LAND, sort of), where the name is more popular. I don't know how to put in the article, but I think it would help, particularly near the beginning. Fineday 03:40, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Military Career

Does it seem strange to anyone else that 35 years of military service is summed up in 4 paragraphs (the same length in paragraphs as the civilian life section, covering his post retirement life) with a huge focus on who he served under and their impressions of him (and vice versa)? Looking at his list of medals there is an impressive list of decorations, but no reference as to how he got any of them, including a purple heart (when was he in combat or wounded?). I was wondering if anyone with information regarding his military career could polish this section up a little and fill in some of the large holes. -Sean — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.76.64.15 (talk) 19:22, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

His Command of FORCES Command at Ft. McPherson in Atlanta is missing from his bio. It was between NSA and Joint Chief. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.44.253.1 (talk) 15:48, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Race

There appears to be vandalism in this section. (Jesus Christ as ancestor reference and such. Please check. 69.209.96.202 01:50, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

He is NOT African American

He is JAMAICAN American. Stop using "African American" when you really mean black. It's inaccurate, and black is not a bad word. James Callahan (talk) 16:01, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

African American is inaccurate, black is inaccurate... surely we need a new term... i never understand why people of mixed complextion are never called brown, it would be more accurate than black. We also don't hear of whites being constantly refered to as european american. Someone that's mixed is usually called african-american... even if their family don't come from africa... shouldn't they be called afro-euro-american? I think its really silly. In Brazil they've managed to some up for different terms for the 'brown' population that have no directly mixed heritage, so why can't they in America? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.97.78.171 (talk) 12:47, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

If you would describe white Americans as being of European descent Powell must be of African descent as black Jamaicans were originally slaves from Africa. Of course Powell is clearly also of European descent. - JL

Colin is a man with great responsibity to his country, and in his role as a high ranking military officer. Though his hard work and dedication Powell achieved the rank of a four star general, the second highest rank achieved by Generals. As an african american, he has overcome many obstacles to become one of America's greatest and most successful military leaders.

heay what is u[ my people is what is what he said —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hundleyblake45 (talk • contribs) 19:55, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

He is not McCain's VP

I can't edit the page, but I do know Colin Powell was NOT nominated for Vice President. Can someone fix that please? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.6.0.236 (talk) 20:33, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Reference for Next America launch

The reference for the paragraph on Powell's speech lunching Next America is simply CSIS Launch of Next America, July 8th 2008 Was this actually published somewhere or this just someone's recall? I can't find a news article on google news about it (not that that's exactly exhaustive research :-) -- SiobhanHansa 19:58, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

2008 Presidential Endorsement

As of 19:30(UTC) on 10/17/2008, Colin Powell has not made any presidential endorsement. (And almost certainly will not make an endorsement until 10/19/2008, when he likely will make an endorsement on "Meet the Press" (not necessarily for McCain -- In fact most pundits seem to think it is more likely he will endorse Obama)
http://news.google.com/news?sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B3GGGL_enUS270US271&um=1&tab=wn&scoring=n&hl=en&q=colin+powell+endorsement&btnG=Search+News

Twice today, 10/17/2008, a false statement was added, claiming Powell formally endorsed McCain on this same day.
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Colin_Powell&diff=245921885&oldid=245907405
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Colin_Powell&diff=245926527&oldid=245925257

The false statement was added anonymously, from IP Address's belonging to the US Air Force.
http://private.dnsstuff.com/tools/ipall.ch?ip=198.97.67.58
http://private.dnsstuff.com/tools/ipall.ch?ip=198.97.67.59

Bdb4269 (talk) 19:35, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Powell just endorsed Barack Obama on NBC's Meet The Press moderated by Tom Brokaw. Pigactor (talk) 13:22, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Yep, it's true. GoodDay (talk) 16:17, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Ghostly picture

Can we use another picture? or edit the current one? The white hue makes him look pale and ghostly. --Voidvector (talk) 21:09, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

No- —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.203.156.119 (talk) 01:33, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Section - Role in presidential election of 2008

The quote: "I look at these kind of approaches to the campaign, and they trouble me [...] Over the last seven weeks, the approach of the Republican Party has become narrower and narrower."[45][46] is obvious quote creation on the part of MSNBC[45]. The two parts joined with an ellipsis actually appeared in reverse order, appeared in 2 separate paragraphs separated by a third, and were approximately 150-200 words apart. The actual quote can be found here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27266223/page/2/

That aside, this article displays a general lack of objectivity. A clearly disproportionate number of words, quote, and citations in this article illustrate where Colin Powell disagreed with the Administration party and/or The President (Bush II).

Pldoolittle (talk) 16:04, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

I reversed the quote. -Classicfilms (talk) 16:38, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

If this article is so anti-Bush according to Pldoolittle, why doesn't it mention the fact that Powell endorses Barrack Obama? Seems to me like the Rep side is the one lacking objectivity here... -- 134.102.101.64 (talk) 15:17, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

• Uh, it DOES mention the endorsement. Colin_Powell#Role_in_presidential_election_of_2008 Dp76764 (talk) 15:52, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Registered Independent?

He was a registered independent when he was Poppy Bush's Joint Chiefs Chair. Did he ever officialy switch parties? [3] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Moderate2008 (talk • contribs) 13:15, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

He is listed as a Republican in this 2008 NPR article:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=95889710

-Classicfilms (talk) 13:22, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Possible role in Obama administration

Gurney50 added "As of November 5, 2008 rumors swirled that President-elect Barack Obama is poised to court Colin Powell for a position in his presidential cabinet." I am marking this as needing citation. The articles discussing Powell's endorsement of Obama do not say anything about this.JLeander (talk) 12:37, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Update: I have deleted that statement based on WP:GRAPEVINE. JLeander (talk) 12:45, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Discrepancy with Military Career in 1986

I've found a discrepancy in the data of Colin Powell's career. The last paragraph states that in 1986 he took over command of V Corps in Frankfurt, Germany. I know this to not be true because I was stationed in Bad Kreuznach, Germany during that time with the 8th Infantry Division Band and he was the commander of the 8th Infantry Division. Until I find undisputed proof of the exact facts, I will leave as is with this note attached. Disa128 (talk) 03:24, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Misleading statement about his rank during Vietnam

The article says that Powell "was a captain during the Vietnam War." This is misleading; the Vietnam War began in 1945, when Powell was 8, and ended in 1973, when he was a Lieutenant Colonel. Thus, the sentence should read: "Powell began service in Vietnam in 1963, when he was a Captain."

Also, please note that here and elsewhere the article makes the error of failing to capitalize military ranks.

Would someone with the power to edit the article please correct these errors? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 150.108.67.153 (talk) 20:26, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

You have the power to edit this article, although I would encourage editors to create an account and identity along with their user page first. --THE FOUNDERS INTENT ^PRAISE 15:18, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Factual error: Powell Doctrine

I'm not comfortable with the mention of "Powell Doctrine" directly following a mention of the tactic of using crushing force. The Powell Doctrine is not a military strategy; it is instead a method of determining whether or not a country should go to war in the first place.

The "Powell Doctrine" article confirms this.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.25.162.162 (talk) 08:20, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Error re: CJCS nomination

The article states Reagan nominated him for the CJCS post. Geo. H.W. Bush actually did in early '89. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.138.80.211 (talk) 20:03, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

I inserted a "fact" template with a hidden note with the information which the above editor noted.--TGC55 (talk) 17:13, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Colin Powell's Party affiliation is Democrat

Vice President Cheney confirmed today that Colin Powell is no longer a Republican. American super patriot (talk) 20:03, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Unfortunately if the RNC chairman doesn't say it, it's not authoritative. --THE FOUNDERS INTENT ^PRAISE 16:15, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Wouldn't it be up to Colin Powell himself to state his party affiliation? Actually Cheney said something to the effect of, "...that he [Cheney] wasn't aware that Powell was still a Republican" (paraprase). RNC chairman doesn't have anything to say about someone's party affiliation -- as opposed to official party membership. If Powell lives in a US State which has a closed primary, possibly voter party registration rolls are a matter of public record.--TGC55 (talk) 15:33, 12 January 2010 (UTC)--TGC55 (talk) 15:35, 12 January 2010 (UTC) (spelling)

He is a Democrat, please change it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.185.61.94 (talk) 20:48, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Personal life - check sources!

The article states that Powell restores old Volvos and Saabs - yet the Larry King transcript only states him as "a Volvo guy", and the other was about him restoring Volvos. Nothing about Saab. 12.238.246.7 (talk) 16:40, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Header - error

Twice in the header, and probably elsewhere in the document, Colin Powell is referred to as an African American. The writer, in calling Colin Powell African American, was probably searching for a politically correct way to say that Colin Powell is black. It is important to note, however, that the terms "African American" and "black" are not synonymous. The term "African American" implies ties to the US South and slavery in the US. In other words, not every black person born in the US is African American (likewise, not every African American is black (see Charlize Theron)). There exist black Dominicans, black Venezuelans, and black Jamaicains, to name a few groups. Colin Powell's parents, as the article points out, come from Jamaica, not Africa. Therefore, he is black Caribbean-American or black West Indian-American, as he discusses in his autobiography. The contributions of black Caribbean people to black life in the United States has been largely written out of history, and to leave the article as such is to contribute to the marginalizing of a people. Therefore, if by "African American" the writer means "black," the article should be amended to reflect this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jk626 (talk • contribs) 18:14, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

AS always, the question of ethnicity/race etc. is a profoundly sticky one. Identity issues are always and everywhere politicized. Wikipedia has never come up with the definitive answer on these questions, largely because the definitive answer probably does not exist... Black Jamaicans are, in the main, the descendants of slaves from Africa. Jamaica is self-evidently a part of North America. Given the latter two facts, the description of Powell as an African-American is every bit as legitimate as it would be for Barack Obama. If his autobiography clearly asserts that he is not descended from slaves, then this needs to be verified, included and well-cited. Ling.Nut (talk) 01:48, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Darfur

Wasn't Powell the first to mention that the crisis in Darfur was a genocide? Is that credible enough to mention in the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.85.215.248 (talk) 03:18, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Unsourced and "contentious material"

I removed a passage from the section "Military Career", paragraph relating to Fort Carson, CO. Reason: Unsourced and "Contentious material" as per the header text on this talk page.

I did not post the material here because of Wikipedia:Verifiability guidlines. If an editor has citable sources (per Wikipedia:Verifiability) to support this passage or parts of it, they should consider reinserting it.--TGC55 (talk) 16:01, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Doctor of Public Service

For the Civilian Awards section, today Powell was awarded an honorary doctorate of public service from Northeastern University. http://www.northeastern.edu/news/2012/04/powell-honorary-degrees/ LuxEV (talk) 15:23, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

Charity work

Colin Powell is an honorary board member of the charity group Wings of Hope. This is reflected on both the group's Wikipedia page (Wings of Hope (charity)) and on their web site (http://wings-of-hope.org/ - under the "our supporters" link). Could someone with editing rights change the page to reflect this? Also, I'm very very new to Wikipedia editing, so if I'm not asking in the right place or the right way, could someone let me know? I believe this is the right place, but the last thing I want to do is bother anyone.

Villerramone (talk) 16:03, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Direct link needed

Under "Secretary of State" section the link US Ambassador should be link-prefaced with Ambassadors of the United States, the current redirect for the phrase. It should read [[Ambassadors of the United States|US Ambassador]] in edit. 71.234.215.133 (talk) 04:44, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Powell's UN presentation

I think something should be added to indicate how those advocating war considered his presentation's importance. For example, of Powell's presentation, Henry Kissinger said that "He has closed the deal". 93.97.143.19 (talk) 22:45, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Hollylogan, 14 April 2011

I would like to request that a note be added under his Honors and Awards section: General Colin L. Powell, USA (ret.) is the Chairman of the Board of Trustees for Eisenhower Fellowships and has been since 2006. http://www.efworld.org/about/eisenhower_fellowships_board.php Hollylogan (talk) 20:40, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Hollylogan (talk) 20:40, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Done ~~EBE123~~ ^talk_Contribs 21:32, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

aristide kidnapping controversy

He's been accused of having ordered the kidnapping of Aristide during the US-backed coup in Haiti. Deserves a mention on the page as this is highly controversial. 184.74.182.190 (talk) 17:28, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

colin powells real ancestory

General Colin Powell is the grandson to a very Prominent Scottish Jamaican landowner Priest with the family name of Monroe,the Monroes were several generations of priests, who catered for the people of their vast estate. A cousin of Colin Powell resides in England, West Bromwich, 174 hilltop, who was trained as a priest by the family on his mothers side(Monroe) but later converted to Islam, he now works as a spiritual healer, and goes by the name of sheikh mubasher..and refers to Colin Powell as cousin Colin from his mothers side. More needs to be looked into the Monroe connection as the family was very well connected Politicaly, hence the story about General Colin Powell being African by ancestory is misleading as his Grandfather was a white European Scottish land/estate owner in Jamaica. With contacts in high places with American politicians as well as national. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.98.231.197 (talk) 23:46, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

The My Lai whitewash does not get enough space in this article

Powell was brought over to the White House in the OMB under Caspar Weinberger because of his whitewashing of My Lai. This is where is his career came from. It is why he was in the Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Bush, and Bush administrations, and why he was promoted from O4 to O10 in 20 years. It is why any of us knows his name.

When the article says that he received a "prestigious" presidential fellowship, without explaining why he received it, it is akin to saying that Halliburton was "entrusted with vital war logistics" in Iraq, without saying how Halliburton got the contracts. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MithraUnconquered (talk • contribs) 22:39, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

I am not sure what evidence there is for this. But Powell was certainly instrumental in the cover up.203.184.41.226 (talk) 05:36, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

13 rules?

It seems incredible that his 13 rules aren't listed. They're mentioned in enough places (newspapers, interviews, his My American Journey book and his It Worked for Me book, websites) that notable/verifiable should be easy. I'm talking about:

1. It ain't as bad as you think.
2. Get mad, then get over it.
3. Avoid having your ego so close to your position that when your position falls, your ego goes with it.
4. It can be done.
5. Be careful what you choose. You may get it.
6. Don't let adverse facts stand in the way of a good decision.
7. You can't make someone else's choices.
8. Check small things.
9. Share credit.
10. Remain calm. Be kind.
11. Have a vision.
12. Don't take counsel of your fears or naysayers.
13. Perpetual optimism is a force multiplier.

Did I miss them? Has there been a previous discussion about posting them elsewhere? Banaticus (talk) 06:29, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

They are there near the bottom of the article.Tomsv 98 (talk) 18:19, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

Powell's Political Party

General Powell was never a Republican. He has always been registered as "independent," per his book, My American Journey —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jpsokkernut10 (talk • contribs) 22:23, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

In an interview airing on Meet the Press on 19 September 2010, host David Gregory asked Powell, "Let me talk a little bit more about the status of the Republican Party and ask you, most directly, you still consider yourself a Republican?". Powell responded, "Yes. Why shouldn't I?" [4] jthetzel (talk) 20:13, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

I think he has to be considered a democrat now. He doesnt subscribe to any of the social conservative policies and he has turned his back on the neo-conservative polices and has endorsed a democrat now in 2 straight elections. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.142.178.22 (talk) 18:40, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Anybody who supported Obama's election twice has to be categorized as a liberal Democrat. Either that or Powell determined that racial loyalty trumped politics. More likely, Powell as a political general got all the promotions and jobs he could get from Republicans, so then he could be honest and express support for liberals. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.49.20.187 (talk) 22:37, 29 November 2013 (UTC)

Unfortunately, as long as he still says he is a Republican Wikipedia should list him as a Republican. When asked on Meet the Press he said, “I’m still a Republican. And I think the Republican Party needs me more than the Democratic Party needs me. And you can be a Republican and still feel strongly about issues such as immigration, and improving our education system, and doing something about some of the social problems that exist in our society and our country. I don’t think there’s anything inconsistent with this.”Tomsv 98 (talk) 18:15, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

I updated the political views section to include his endorsement of President Obama and changed moderate Republican to liberal Republican.Tomsv 98 (talk) 18:43, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

Shoulderboards

To editor Illegitimate Barrister: Changing the graphic (rank insignia to shoulderboards) makes no improvement as the rank themselves are harder to see. Please gather consensus when reverted. Chris Troutman (talk) 16:55, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

A political general? Seems kind of weaselly

I believe this header should be changed ASAP. Afronig (talk) 20:21, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 March 2015

Please change "Powell's chief role was to garner international support for a multi-national coalition to mount the invasion." to "Powell's chief role was to garner international support for a multi-national coalition to mount the invasion, to match to bipartisan support for the invasion by the U.S. Congress"

128.237.194.13 (talk) 18:39, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. — LeoFrank  ^Talk 06:43, 27 September 2014 (UTC)

References

His ethnicity.

How can he be both African American and the son of West Indian immigrants? I think the article confuses this, in particular conflating race and ethnicity. You could say, "He was the first and so far only black American to serve on the Joint Chiefs of Staff." Or, "..non-white Amiercan?" (if that is true). Or, "American of West Indian ancestry..". I think this needs to be teased out. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.90.252.27 (talk) 23:56, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Apparently he was born to Jamaican parents with African roots.TMCk (talk) 13:04, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

It appears that over the past several thousand years, most of his ancestors lived in sub-Saharan Africa while significant numbers of people lived on other continents. The fact that the last few generations lived in the West Indies does not change that. ~ MD Otley (talk) 00:12, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

Every human has African roots. I guess every American then, is African American. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.90.100.199 (talk) 16:59, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

If everyone has African roots, then that shared ancestry is not useful for labeling, and should be ignored when trying to make distinctions. ~ MD Otley (talk) 00:12, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

As far as I know, the West Indies are also part of the American Continent. By the way, almost all black people in the US have a Caribbean background in their ancestry, because almost all didn't come directly from Africa to the US. Almost all black family trees have some individuals, who lived at some point in history in Jamaica, Barbados, Trinidad, Cuba, Haiti, The Bahamas, etc. The question is just when, in the 20th century, in the 19th century, in the 18th century or even earlier. --El bes (talk) 21:41, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 March 2015

Please change "In a press statement on February 24, 2001, he had said that sanctions against Iraq had prevented the development of any weapons of mass destruction by Saddam Hussein." to "In a press statement on February 24, 2001, he had said that sanctions against Iraq had prevented the development of any weapons of mass destruction by Saddam Hussein. We now know this to be in error as the 2004 ISG report by Charles Duelfer documents how Saddam Hussein corrupted the sanctions and by 2001 they were having little or on effect on Iraq as shown in the Key Findings section on Regiem Stratigic Intent."

128.237.194.13 (talk) 18:39, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. — {{U|Technical 13}} (e • t • c) 14:46, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

References