Talk:Coco Gauff/Archive 1

Archive 1

some proposed changes

Dear Wikipedia, I am Coco Gauff's agent Alessandro Sant'Albano. We would like to edit her coaching information as Gerard Loglo has not been her coach for over a year now. Her coach is her father Corey Gauff. | coach = Corey Gauff www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/tennis/fl-sp-tennis-coco-gauff-20180618-story.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.155.235.41 (talk • contribs) 07:13, 23 June 2018 (UTC)

I moved this request from the article to the talk page, I cannot however answer it as the source is GDPR blocking me from confirming it. Iffy★Chat -- 08:39, 23 June 2018 (UTC)

COI edit request approved.

 spintendo  14:17, 23 June 2018 (UTC)

youngest player in main Wimbledon draw

Wasn't Jennifer Capriati 14 when she played in 1990? 2A02:C7F:409D:E900:8513:3858:A00C:DD08 (talk) 20:12, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

I think it's in the exact, although confusing wording. Gauff had to come through qualifying to play at Wimbledon. I don't believe Capriati did. It really should be written so readers understand that fact. Fyunck(click) (talk) 21:19, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

Coco

Please note that the sometimes used nickname of 'Coco' should not be in the lede per WP:MOSNICKNAME. GiantSnowman 11:20, 3 July 2019 (UTC)

WP:MOSNICKNAME says "Avoid adding a nickname, or a contracted version of the original given name(s), in quotes, or parentheses, between first and last name (for example: Bill Clinton, not William "Bill" Clinton), unless it is the form most frequently used in independent reliable sources". Since "Coco" is the form most frequently used in independent reliable sources, it should be included. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 19:35, 3 July 2019 (UTC)

We also have, from MOS:NICKNAME:

• If a person is known by a nickname used in lieu of or in addition to a given name, and it is not a common hypocorism of one of their names, or a professional alias, it is usually presented between double quotation marks following the last given name or initial; the quotation marks are not put in lead-section boldface. Example:
• Bunny Berigan has: Roland Bernard "Bunny" Berigan.

So per MOS:NICKNAME, there are times when it is used properly. Fyunck(click) (talk) 22:45, 3 July 2019 (UTC)

@Sportsfan77777: if 'Coco' is used more than 'Cori' then start a RM to move the article.

@Fyunck(click): that's because the Berigan article is located at 'Bunny'. If it was at Roland Berigan then the lede would be 'Roland Bernard Berigan'. GiantSnowman 11:13, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

I wouldn't say it's used more than Cori, but it's used a lot. Remember this is a pretty new player so if she continues to do well the press will settle on a name it uses the most. Fyunck(click) (talk) 18:06, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

This article should probably be moved to Coco Gauff, what with that being her common name and all that. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:15, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

WP:RM is thataway... GiantSnowman 19:55, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

• Absolutely not, the title of the Wikipedia article for a tennis player is always the name they have on their WTA/ITF profiles. If anything, the first line of the lede should be Cori "Coco" Gauff. User:Narciso003User talk:Narciso003 20:37, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

Where did you get that idea? That is commonly the case that the names in both places match but not always. The ATP and Hall of Fame calls him Richard Gonzalez while Wikipedia uses Pancho Gonzales. Same with ITF's Tony Wilding vs Wikipedia Anthony Wilding. Spelling is also often different since the ITF/Hall of Fame/WTA/ATP uses English spelling while Wikipedia uses Foreign spelling. So usually yes, but not always. Fyunck(click) (talk) 21:02, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

And using 'Cori "Coco" Gauff' violates WP:MOSNICKNAME. GiantSnowman 12:59, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

Oh and the nickname isn't mentioned anywhere in the prose (it used to be, because I added it...) - it should be in the 'personal life' section and not in the lede. GiantSnowman 13:08, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

Requested move 5 July 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Editors believe that there is no common name for Gauff, as both Cori and Coco are used in the media. Most editors prefer Cori Gauff, which is the name that is officially registered with the International Tennis Federation and the name that Gauff chose as her professional identity. This request can be resubmitted if Coco emerges as the common name in the future. (non-admin closure) — Newslinger talk 21:02, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

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Cori Gauff → Coco Gauff – This is a procedural/courtesy request made as per the discussion above (diff). Right now I'm not going to vote either way, and I'd like to clarify that I have no prejudice against this move discussion being speedily closed. Linguist111^{my talk page} 20:08, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose for now. I see plenty of uses of Cori in the press, probably more than Coco. Also, each player MUST register with the ITF or they cannot play professional tennis. With this registration they are required to spell their names the way they wish to be recognized by the ITF/WTA/ATP. They can change this by informing the ITF. Tennis player Stan Wawrinka recently told the ITF he wanted his first name changed from Stanislas to Stan. Gauff obviously chose Cori, not Coco. Fyunck(click) (talk) 21:15, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

• Support. As a non-follower of tennis who was searching for more information on Gauff based on all the stories I'd been hearing, I had no idea her name was Cori. I believe most other people who would be looking for a cursory summary on wikipedia would also know her better as Coco. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.78.31.244 (talk) 23:49, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

  That might be true, but if someone searches for her nickname of "Coco", they will be redirected to this article... so it's not like searching for Coco Gauff will lead them to a dead end. It will lead them here where they will discover her real name and her registered professional tennis name. Fyunck(click) (talk) 07:37, 6 July 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose As Fyunck(click) says, it seems like reliable sources are divided between "Coco" and "Cori", with neither being overwhelmingly preferred. Given multiple WP:COMMONNAME options, I think it makes sense to go with the more formal/official name as a tiebreaker. No prejudice against another RM later if circumstances change and it becomes clear that Coco has become the WP:COMMONNAME. Colin M (talk) 00:26, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
• Comment – While a number of reliable news services in English-speaking countries may be using "Coco", it's important to remember that sport tournaments like Wimbledon attract worldwide attention. The boom in coverage that Gauff has received since her victory against Venus Williams on Monday therefore includes reports from news services from across the world. If you search Gauff's surname in Google while browsing from different countries, you will find what collectively are a lot of less-than-week-old articles from reliable news services referring to her as Cori. Linguist111^{my talk page} 09:26, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
• Comment – I think that her name should be rendered as Cori "Coco" Gauff. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.30.42.64 (talk) 00:33, 7 July 2019 (UTC)
• Weak oppose – per what I said above and per Fyunck(click). Come to think of it, WP:COMMONNAME doesn't apply here because both names are used by a number of reliable sources. Having said what I've said, I tend not to be too bothered about article titles as long as they are reasonable – that is: they don't contain spelling errors; they don't contain implausible inaccuracies; they don't violate WP:TITLE, WP:BLP, WP:NPOV or WP:V; they don't misrepresent subjects in outstanding ways; and they aren't outdated. In this case, both possible titles are, in my view, reasonable, hence the weak part. Linguist111^{my talk page} 06:42, 7 July 2019 (UTC)
• Comment On Wikipedia, we have Buzz Aldrin, Coco Chanel, Dizzy Dean, Red Barber, Duke Ellington, Count Basie, and many others. However, has anyone asked Cori? She is currently a fifteen year-old; will she still want to have her Wikipedia page (or any other biographical summary for that matter) identified by her teenage nickname "Coco" when she's fifty? Perhaps yes, perhaps no. She may say Coco's fine. I understand that the image of public figures is not completely in their control, but the final authority on a person's name should be the person. Is there any way to get clarification at the source? And please don't say it doesn't matter what the subject involved thinks - I would want my name to be known how I wish it to be known, not by the criteria of others. After all, it's my name. PJtP (talk) 16:06, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

  Actually, yes, someone has asked her. To play as a professional, a player must register with the International Tennis Federation (ITF). No registering, no playing. The player gives the ITF the name they want to play under. Her ITF playing name is Cori. She can always change it per request, and maybe she will one day, but as of now that's the name of her own chosing. Fyunck(click) (talk) 17:08, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

  OK then, that's probably the answer. I submit to this debate that Cori herself has made the decision professionally, so Cori it is with Coco so indicated as a nickname only. PJtP (talk) 01:46, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

  I was thinking like that too. I assume that Aldrin etc. have been called those names in reliable sources for years and years, well into adulthood. Gauff only became a notable figure two/three years ago at most, and last Monday may well have been her first "big break" (I'm not certain about that though; there may well be more older sources which have gotten lost among the slew of new ones in Google), so perhaps not enough time has passed for her nickname to be "official". And yes, there is the probability that when she's an adult she'll want the public to know her under her real name and not the nickname she had when she was a kid. Moreover, as Fyunck says, there is the fact that players' names and world ranks are registered on official tournament sites throughout their careers, and this should influence what names appear on the tournament courts' scoreboards and what names are used by sports-covering services (also note that many news services from across the world have used the name Cori this past week). Linguist111^{my talk page} 02:05, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose. Too soon. Her name is Cori, and although she is becoming known universally as Coco, maybe we should hold fire until after she has won Wimbledon, so maybe delay the page move until next week then...!? In the meantime, might I suggest a Cori Gough/Cory Gough/Coco Gough redirect, as "Gough" would be the instinctive way of spelling her surname if you hadn't previously seen it written down anywhere? Currently a Google search on "Cory Gough" brings up an obscure individual on Encyclopedia Dramatica (for whom I was not able to provide a link as it's blacklisted, but it's: https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Cory_Gough). Rodney Baggins (talk) 08:40, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

  maybe we should hold fire until after she has won Wimbledon, so maybe delay the page move until next week then...!? – she was eliminated yesterday. Linguist111^{my talk page} 03:03, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose per Fyunck(click). GiantSnowman 12:53, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
• Comment Know it's not WP:HOAX but not sure what the correct WP is in this instance. If the page name was changed to Coco how many people would now start calling her that - would it not then be her correct name? Whats clear is that for now there's no consensus. MaskedSinger (talk) 15:15, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose After the title of Cori Gauff, the next words should be Cori "Coco" Gauff. Create a redirect from Coco Gauff. If there other examples of nicknames elsewhere, these should also be corrected. JMcC (talk) 10:40, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

  There is already such a redirect. Linguist111^{my talk page} 10:47, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

@Jmcc150: not per WP:MOSNICKNAME. GiantSnowman 11:29, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose - for this kind of things we have a redirect, and there is no need to use her nickname only because she has one. Edoderoo (talk) 19:54, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
• Support: Coco during a Wimbledon interview requested to be called Coco as it places a clear differentiation from her father whose name is Korey but pronounced Cori. Straight from the horses mouth — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nugagames (talk • contribs) 14:54, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
• Comment A trivial point: 'Buzz' has been Aldrin's legal first name since 1988. JMcC (talk) 06:51, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose: an official name, and unlike CiCi Bellis who is widely known as CiCi instead of Catherine. – 333-blue at 12:08, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
• Support: Aikclaes (talk) 15:24, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

• Wikipedia:Arguments to avoid on discussion pages#Just a vote Linguist111^{my talk page} 15:46, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.