Talk:Coat of arms of Greece

Emblem vs. CoA

Why is this called "emblem", and not "Coat of arms"? This is not like France, Belarus or other soviet emblems that took the place of the coats of arms. ES Vic (talk) 17:20, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Well, the Greek Government calls it an emblem. [1] _{El Greco}^(talk) 01:29, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Well, do they have, in Greek, a term as "coat of arms"? ES Vic (talk) 19:25, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

I know this request does not have to do with the topic that you were speaking about, but I have a request. I want to know what the emblem of the KKE (Communist Party of Greece) looked like in the 1940’s. There is already a flag of the KKE from the 1940’s, so why is there no emblem? Flagsource129 (talk) 21:41, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

I know this request does not have to do with the topic that you were speaking about, but I have a request. I want to know what the emblem of the KKE (Communist Party of Greece) looked like in the 1940’s. There is already a flag of the KKE from the 1940’s, so why is there no emblem? (You can see the 1940’s KKE flag in the List of Greek flags page.) Flagsource129 (talk) 23:28, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

The translations of Coat of Arms, in greek is εμβλημα and εθνοσημο.Peeperman (talk) 15:44, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

This is wrong. Coat of Arms is Θυρεός. Εθνόσημο means "National Emblem" and it is incorrect to call the National Emblem of Greece a "Coat of Arms". --Philly boy92 (talk) 02:31, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

-By definition; anything represented on a shield qualifies as a coat of arms. Regardless of what the Greek government calls this; it is most definitely a coat of arms.JWULTRABLIZZARD (talk) 16:13, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Laurel vs. Olive Branches

"...consists of a blue escutcheon with a white cross totally surrounded by two laurel branches"

I always thought it was olive branches not laurel. In fact olive tree is the national tree of Greece. Can somebody enlight me?

Emblems missing

The Great Greek Encyclopedia of 1934 mentions that during the 1925-1926 dictatorship of Theodoros Pangalos four new elements were added into the four parts formed by the cross of the escutcheon: a head of Athena, a helmet and a spear, a double-headed eagle and a phoenix. The escutcheon was surrounded by oak branches on the right and laurel branches on the left.

The new design met much opposition. Later, the phoenix only was placed in the centre of the cross, as a common symbol of the First and Second Republic.

Now, shouldn't we do some extra research on this subject? Dimboukas (talk) 16:56, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

This accords with some images I had found on a French website long ago, depicting just such emblems and with some documentation. Sadly I have not been able to find the site again, although I've tried several times. I too think this info is worthy of inclusion in the article. Constantine ✍ 17:19, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

I found one depiction [2] Dimboukas (talk) 21:43, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

National Emblem

There is an ongoing discussion here. Dimboukas (talk) 22:24, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was Move. Cúchullain ^t/c 18:28, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

National emblem of Greece → Coat of arms of Greece – Let's call a spade a spade. Most people would call this a coat of arms. See WP:COMMONNAME. It is simply a new rendition of the 1822 blazon. The EU's symbol is for example formally referred to as "The European Emblem", but every right-minded person would refer to it as a flag. SSJ ^t 15:00, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

• Oppose: Common practice is to avoid calling emblems that don't follow heraldic rules "coat of arms". And many English-speaking people (especially those not native to the language) have no idea what "coat of arms" means, but understand what a "national emblem" is. Constantine ✍ 15:18, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Plus, if we want to be pedantic, "national emblem" is the proper translation of the technical Greek term, εθνόσημο. A coat of arms would be θυρεός. Constantine ✍ 15:20, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

Comment The version that currently is in the top of this article doesn't have a non-heraldic circle in the background, i.e. it follows the rules of heraldry. Of course many people don't know what heraldry is, but that doesn't make us call the coat of arms of Luxembourg the "Logo of Luxembourg". The naming of articles should be informed by knowledge about the topic. - SSJ ^t 15:32, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

Hmm, I missed that, I was still under the impression we used the vesion with the circle. I had a look at the relevant law from 1975, and it does not prescribe the circle (except, quite naturally, on seals). The second argument still stands, but it isn't decisive. So I modify my position to "I don't really mind either way". Constantine ✍ 16:01, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Presidential seal or coat of arms

Anyone could translate this document ? I'd like to know if any presidential symbol exists for the president of the Hellenic Republic and what the official texts say about the symbols of Greece. Thank you. --Cyril-83 (talk) 11:10, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

There is no presidential symbol prescribed in this law. What the law says is essentially that the flag is the old, cross-only "land flag" (this was changed to the "sea flag"in 1978), and all the seals must feature the coat of arms, the name of the relevant authority (public service, court, military unit etc) in a ring around the coat of arms, and the words "Hellenic Republic" in an outer ring, as in the examples appended in the end. Constantine ✍ 12:12, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

Thank you! So can we understand that those 7 seals are official ? What authority do they symbolise? --Cyril-83 (talk) 12:17, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

These seals are officially sanctioned examples of the law's prescriptions. First row, L-R: national emblem, great seal of the state, seal of the Parliament. Second row, L-R: court of the first instance of Athens, Ministry of Justice, Euboea Prefecture, Athens Prosecutor's Office. As I said above, the names in the inner ring are the authority to which the seal belongs. This is the universal pattern in Greece to this day, from ministries to public schools. The same was true under the previous regimes (junta and kingdom), with the respective national emblems of the time. Constantine ✍ 12:59, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

Ok. So, this picture of the CoA of the president of the Hellenic Republic is erroneous and pure invention, if I understand well. --Cyril-83 (talk) 13:47, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

Yes, for a couple of reasons: First, there is no tradition in Greece of using these seals in colour or as escutcheons/emblems, like the seal of the US President. Furthermore, although I am pretty sure the Presidency uses seals of its own, they too would have to conform to the same basic design, i.e. the coat of arms, a ring with "Presidency of the Republic" (as seen in the file you linked), and then an outer ring with "Hellenic Republic". This file was used in the English-language WP once, but I removed it exactly because of its rather "imaginary" status. Be advised that there are a couple of other similarly imaginary "seals" in Commons for the PM and the Cabinet.Constantine ✍ 14:04, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks a lot. --Cyril-83 (talk) 15:19, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

No problem. PS, here is a copy of the actual seal of the Presidency. You see that it is used simply as a seal for documents, not as an emblem (the letterhead features the national coat of arms, as do all public services). Constantine ✍ 15:28, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

Doukas

Isn't it derived from the coat of arms of the Doukas family? 155.213.224.59 (talk) 15:54, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Coat of arms of Greece/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Disc Wheel (talk · contribs) 19:59, 10 November 2019 (UTC)

Will review shortly. Disc Wheel (T + C) 19:59, 10 November 2019 (UTC)

Lead:

• Make it longer, you can elaborate more on the historical designs both non-heraldic and heraldic

Nonheraldic:

• "Rigas's proposal was composed of a club" --> if I'm not mistaken when referring someone that's already been mentioned you'd use the last name here rather than Rigas. As well as no "s" after the apostrophe since it ends in s already

• I'd suggest making these adjustments for the subsequent occurrences as well

• "... and sacrifice respectively" --> comma before respectively
• Was Feraios' design not formally accepted by the government?
• "... was provided for by the Provisional Constitution..." maybe remove the "for," when reading it sounds off with that included I think
• link cockade
• "... cockade of white and blue.[5] White and blue ..." Instead of repeating white and blue again, say "The colors"

Heraldic:

• "The Great Greek Encyclopedia explains in 1934" --> The 1934 edition of the Great Greek Encyclopedia explained
• "glory respectively" --> add the comma again before respectively
• "This particular emblem was criticised for being inappropriate and violating heraldic rules before being again replaced by the simple shield following the fall of Pangalos's dictatorship" --> What rules did it violate and how was it viewed to be inappropriate
• The final two paragraphs are completely lacking sources

Good work and just some easy fixes. I made one adjustment myself Disc Wheel (T + C) 20:22, 10 November 2019 (UTC)

Disc Wheel – Thank you for starting the review!

1. I made the lede longer, as suggested.
2. Non-Heraldic
   1. Rigas is referred to by his last name as opposed to his first name. This is done in this article, as well as other articles that refer to him. It is very rare that anyone refers to him as "Feraios", and most people who do this are English speakers unfamiliar with the fact that he is commonly known as simply Rigas.
   2. I will remove the random 's after s throughout the article. Should just be s'.
   3. Rigas' design was unofficial, but it was the first proposal for such an emblem to represent a country called Greece. A Greek government would not exist until nearly 30 years after he died.
   4. I have changed was provided for by with was described in
   5. Cockade is linked the first time it is mentioned. Do you want it linked on all instances?
   6. Changed white and blue to These colours.
3. Heraldic
   1. Changed to The 1934 edition of the Great Greek Encyclopedia explained
   2. Added comma after "respectively"
   3. I am just quoting the original source here. I imagine that it means the established rules and norms of European heraldry in addition to being overly complex and overburdened with symbolism.
   4. I will try and find some sources for the last two paragraphs over the weekend. Not sure who added the second-to-last paragraph about the Danish coat of arms, but if I cannot find sources for it I will remove it.
4. I have also broken up the Heraldic section into smaller sections, because it read to me like a relentless wall of text.

Please let me know what you think of the edits and what else you think needs to be fixed. Thanks again for starting this review! --Michail (blah) 12:28, 16 November 2019 (UTC)

@Philly boy92: Looks good, just need those paragraphs sourced is all. Disc Wheel (T + C) 03:48, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

@Philly boy92: It's been over a week since you edited the article, just checking in. Disc Wheel (T + C) 21:13, 24 November 2019 (UTC)

@Disc Wheel: – sorry, the ping didn't get to me! I would probably remove the paragraph Following the return of the monarchy [...] horseback of Dithmarschen. With regards to the other paragraph in that section, what is it that needs citation? It's all pretty straight-forward and factual. --Michail (blah) 00:49, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

@Philly boy92: Well that is my only qualm with the article that remains. As the information seems, to my eyes (which know 0% on heraldry), to be potentially accurate. I would suggest adding references as that information is certainly relevant and shouldn't be left out of the article if true. Disc Wheel (T + C) 17:27, 1 December 2019 (UTC)

@Disc Wheel: Okay cool, I will try and do it this week. Sorry for taking a while. Things are a bit hectic at the moment with work and elections. --Michail (blah) 23:54, 10 December 2019 (UTC)

@Philly boy92: No worries, thanks for the update. Disc Wheel (T + C) 05:13, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

@Philly boy92: It's been close to a month since I last posted regarding article process and more than that for when the article was adjusted, if changes aren't made soon I will fail the article. Disc Wheel (T + C) 13:33, 2 January 2020 (UTC)

Failing due to prolonged inactivity and lack of fixing as per above. Given ample time. Disc Wheel (T + C) 01:37, 19 January 2020 (UTC)

Please make the appropriate changes as I outlined with referencing the added material that is quite relevant to the coat of arms' history, renominate and contact me to review it again as I'll gladly approve it then. Disc Wheel (T + C) 01:39, 19 January 2020 (UTC)