Talk:Clans (BattleTech)

Split

Perhaps each clan should be given a separate page, and simply linked to from here? That would shrink this article to a more manageable size, and allow for further expansion of the history / current status of each clan. This would be a pretty major edit, so I won't do it straight away. If there's no response to this within a week or so, I'll just go ahead and make the changes. --Lucian Gregory 03:03, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree, it would definitely make room for more in-depth information on each of the clans histories (and we would need a lot of room).

I'm going to split the articles up now, should take me about 20 minutes W3bbo 21:43, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. And I am suprised that some of the most notable clans don't have articles (Clan Jade Falcon, Clan Wolf, Clan Nova Cats...).--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus ^Talk 16:34, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

I feel that having general description of the major clans on this page but then them having a seperate page dedicated to the most natable clans that have affected the the in-universe the most such as Clan Jade Falcon, Wolf, Ghost Bear, the Nova Cats, these groups have been major plyers the more recent series mostly in part to wizkids focuzing on advancing the clan metallty and building off what Faza started so long ago before the buy-off by Microsoft. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Popa01 (talk • contribs) 01:32, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Vanity

I've ran into problems with the Wikipedia mods since moving the first 2 articles, they marked it down for deletion because of "vanity, nn". W3bbo 21:51, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

I've just moved the first 5 sections and the big 3 sections (Wolverine, Wolf, and Smoke Jaguar) to their own articles. W3bbo 23:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

I've added a small paragraph to the start of all your clan pages that gives the articles their context. Hope that prevents some deletions but theres not much more I can do. I also changed the 'Clan Snow Raven' article name to 'Battletech Clan Snow Raven' to follow the naming convention you have made and then I deleted the Snow Raven section and added a link to the Snow Raven page. The info deleted is on the Snow Raven page anyway. Smoore 500 14:16, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

I took the liberty of renaming the 'BattleTech Clan whatever' into 'Clan whatever', unless there is a need for WP:DISAMBIG we should keep the names simple. I think all clans deserve their own subarticles, and that sections like the list of clans or culture can be further split into the subarticles, too.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus ^Talk 17:22, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

On Grand Council, ilKhans and such

Can somebody write a section on that? And history needs a paragraph on the Inner Sphere invasion and the aftermath.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus ^Talk 17:07, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

I wrote about that on the ranks section of the battletech clans page. I believe it is in the wrong area and was hoping somebody would make the tidy up since I don't know where else to put it. The information is under Clans (BattleTech)#Clan Council if you want to make the change. -- Smoore 500 08:10, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Most clan articles deleted and redirect

In the past few months, since they 1) were copyvios 2) were deemed non-notable per WP:FICTION. So most 'see also' for clans redirect back here; however if you'd like to expand the list here, you can do so from their article's history. But please, don't create new pages for the clans. Only a few are truly notable (those that are primarily covered by novels and fiction pieces).-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 01:33, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Clans affected by the above: Clan Mongoose, Minnesota Tribe, Clan Star Adder, Clan Ice Hellion, Clan Goliath Scorpion, Clan Cloud Cobra, Clan Burrock, Clan Widowmaker, Clan Fire Mandrill, Clan Blood Spirit, Clan Diamond Shark, Clan Coyote, Clan Hell's Horses, Clan Snow Raven, Clan Wolverine —Preceding unsigned comment added by Piotrus (talk • contribs) 01:34, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Copyright violation: Clan Wolverine

I just happened to notice this. The text there (except for the last paragraph) was lifted word-for-word from Clans: Warriors of Kerensky. I deleted it, added some substitute language (which is not copyrighted), and added requests for citation to the last paragraph, which as far as I can tell is unfounded speculation. I suspect that this page has lots more in the way of violations, but I'm just passing through. :) Wellspring (talk) 18:32, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Merge remaining clans

The remaining individual clan pages either have no independent secondary sources to establish notability or have no references at all. They have been tagged for a long time and I feel the best course now is to merge them into this article. If sections of this article are developed with secondary sources, they can be split off later. Pagrashtak 18:14, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Unnotable clans have been merged. I'll improve the references to remaining ones, which are notable. At the very least, there is no doubt that Wolf and Jade Falcon - each of whom have received a dedicated sourcebook - are quite notable. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 20:41, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

If they are notable, please provide the significant coverage they have received in reliable secondary sources. As they stand now, they rely solely on primary sources and are largely plot repetition with an inappropriate in-universe focus. Also, I consider it bad form to remove proposed merge tags simply because you disagree. The correct course is to leave the tags intact while the merge is discussed. Please restore them. Pagrashtak 16:54, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Being the primary subject of several primary sources satisfies notability, and one can easily find online secondary sources for the clans I removed the merge tags from. I am not opposing other mergers, but I am highly disappointed in how you carry out the merges: you waste content created by our editors; under misleading edit summaries (Clans_(BattleTech)#Clan_Ghost_Bear contains little of the content you claimed to have merged from the Clan Ghost Bear article - in fact all you have done in your edit summary " add from Clan Ghost Bear" was... to remove the merge notice). You should either copy the entire content of a merged article to the target, or transwikify it to the BattleTech wiki. I will certainly not support such "mergers", and I will revert them as wasting hard work of other editors is not far from vandalism. If one wants to waste such a work, one should go through proper channels :> --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 19:14, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

The example you cite was not intended to be a merge. When I merge an article I specifically use the word "merge" in both the target and source articles (not that you should be expected to have known that, of course). For example, see where I merged Akadi and Lord Ao into List of Forgotten Realms deities after discussing with the D&D project. I added a sentence to the end of the Ghost Bear section in that edit, so my edit summary was not intended to be misleading. As for the remainder of the Ghost Bear article, it was under the heading "Per 'Trial By Chaos' by J. Steven York, Book #20 in the MechWarrior: Dark Age Series (Roc 2006):", which I took to mean that it was copyrighted text. Seeing that the text there was the only non-duplicated text, I redirected the article. If this was not the case, I apologize, and you should feel free to add in anything missing by all means. Let's not accuse each other of "vandalism", shall we? Per Wikipedia:Vandalism, any action made in good faith is explicitly not vandalism. I have no intention of using Wikipedia:Articles for deletion as you suggest, as I am not trying to delete any articles. I am trying to merge, and the proper start for that is discussion on article talk pages, as I have started here.

I disagree with you that being the primary subject of several primary sources satisfies notability. Wikipedia:Notability requires "significant coverage in reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject"—not primary sources. However, I am willing to table Wolf and Jade Falcon for the time being and discuss the other clans, such as Clan Jade Falcon. I think that a transwiki is often an excellent solution to these sort of situations. If you are open to the idea of a transwiki followed by a condense-merge to the list, I think we can find a agreeable outcome. Do you have a particular wiki in mind? From a quick search it appears there is one on Wikia and at least one on another site. Pagrashtak 19:50, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for claryfing that. It is my understanding - albeit based on style - that the text "per "Trial..." is not a copyvio, but an attempt to reference the article by an editor with little experience. I do agree that in cases of doubt, transwikifying the articles is the best option, provided that an editor searching for a given term on Wikipedia will be redirected to a page/section with a direct link to that wiki. I believe that leaving Jade Falcon and Wolf as separate articles and merging others (transwikifying...) is the best solution. It is my understanding that this is the BattleTech wiki.--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 22:11, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

My apologies for taking so long between responses, I haven't had a lot of time for Wikipedia lately. So, it looks like we're talking about a transwiki/merge of Smoke Jaguar, Nova Cat, and Wolf-in-Exile. All three of those have articles on the BattleTech wiki that came from Wikipedia. Wolf-in-Exile looks like a near-exact copy at a rough glance and wouldn't need a transwiki. Nova Cat is based on the description from the list and not the article, so that appears to be a worthwhile transwiki, and Smoke Jaguar appears to be a combination of the list entry and the entire separate article, so it seems no transwiki is needed there either. Please let me know if that's an accurate assessment. Are you a regular editor at the BattleTech wiki by any chance? Pagrashtak 19:29, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Could you (in future) link the articles you mention (ours and theirs) for ease of reference? And no, I don't edit BTech wiki (maybe I've an account there with few edits... can't remember :). --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 21:11, 26 February 2009 (UTC)