Talk:Christian Rakovsky

On proportions

I realize that my contributions to this article may have made it look unbalanced, placing an accidental emphasis on his activities in Romania. I sincerely apologize if this is the case: not knowing any Russian (or, for that matter, Bulgarian and Ukrainian), I could not draw on valuable sources such as Trotsky's biography (which was included as a reference before I started contributing here, but I cannot tell if it was actually used in this article). Using material available to me in English and Romanian, I tried to reference some text in other sections of his life - but I admit my edits in that area have beeen far from substantial. Overall, I'm glad to say that the section on his Romanian-based activities has went from zero to very much; I can only hope that others sections will be expanded and referenced to their proper length. Dahn 20:02, 24 February 2007 (UTC) Strike that: it's pretty much balanced now. Dahn 01:40, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Darkness at Noon

I suggest splitting off the last paragraph, with a section title such as "Aftermath", "Legacy", or something along those lines (more generally, I think it would be a good idea to have some such section at the end of most articles about public figures who left an impact). One thing that I find generally interesting is the impact a person (such as a poltician, or an activist) had on popular culture, the arts, etc. Coming now to the specific case of Christian Rakovsky, it has always been my impression that he was (at least in part) the inspiration for the character of Rubashov, in Arthur Koestler's famous novel, Darkness at Noon. Now, in the article about Koestler's book, only Nikolai Bukharin is mentioned, which doesn't sound right to me (if anything, Rubashov's name sounds closer to Rakovsky than Bukharin!) So I did some searches, and I found what seems like a rather authoritative source for this: an essay by George Orwell, who of course really knew this stuff inside-out. Orwell says: "Rubashov might be called Trotsky, Bukharin, Rakovsky or some other relatively civilised figure among the Old Bolsheviks." So how about mentioning this Orwell quote in the Rakovsky article, and then also in the Darkness at Noon article? I thought about doing that, but I wasn't sure on how to split off that last paragraph; besides, the reference structure for the article is quite involved, not clear where a reference such as Orwell may fit.

While at it, I think that one of the most moving vignettes in the article about Lucreţiu Pătrăşcanu is that he read Darkness at Noon while being a delegate at the Paris Peace conference in 1946-47 — surely a chill must have gone down his spine while reading the account of Rubashov's forced confession. Speaking of which, did Rakovsky's and Pătrăşcanu's paths ever intersect? Turgidson 16:12, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Excellent ideas. I wanted to create a separate section from the last myself, especially since this looked weird going all the way into the 1980s, but could not find enough material to fill it up to now. What is also surprising is that I also have always thought of Rakovsky as one of the main sources for Rubashov, and that Orwell quote should certainly make its way into the article (and, yes, in the book article as well) - should I do it, or do you want to? I suggest a "Rehabilitation and legacy" section, where we could also expand on what Istrati thought about CR, and on how Rakovsky was mentioned in insults addressed to Istrati by Sahia and others (see Tanase's "The Renegade Istrati" for that). I'm not sure if you're hinting at it yourself, but I would also like to see mention of LP having read the book in the Darkness at Noon article (I thought about it ever since I began expanding the LP article - thanks to Biruitorul for being the first to source that).

About LP and Rakovsky, I'm not sure. They could have met once - in 1922, when LP was in Moscow (not sure what CR was doing at the time); in the mid-1930s, when LP was again in Moscow at the time of the Trials, I think it is unlikely that he witnessed the show (though it is not outright impossible). Dahn 16:29, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Please do go ahead and modify the Rakovsky article -- you are evidently much more familiar with it, both with the context, and with the structure of the article. If I get a chance later today, I will modify accordingly the Darkness at Noon article -- but I will soon take a wikibreak, so if it's not done by tomorrow, please do go ahead with the rest, too. The Istrati connection was news to me -- I need to look at it in more detail, sounds interesting. Istrati is a facinating figure, I'm pretty sure more can (and in fact should) be said about him. Turgidson 16:49, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. Unfortunately, I seem to have misplaced my copy of Istrati's Confession of a Loser, so I don't have direct quotes to provide for now. But I will add what I can for now. Dahn 18:13, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Image

I added that photo of Trotsky with Rakovsky. I had to tidy it up a bit from the scan, if anyone wants the original, please let me know. - Francis Tyers · 09:37, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Could the caption for the uniform pic be expanded? What uniform is he wearing? When was it taken? - Francis Tyers · 09:44, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

I think it is a commissar's uniform, but I couldn't really tell you. It was probably taken during the 1920s. About the other picture: the caption reads that he and Trotsky traveled together to Romania and Bulgaria during the 1920s, but that is highly unlikely (at least one of them faced the death penalty if caught, they were both pretty busy in Russia, and no source mentions such a trip); could it actually refer to their trip in the 1910s, when Trotsky documented the Balkan Wars and stayed at Rakovsky's estate? If so, is the picture from the 1910s, or does it show the two of them together at a different moment? If it is from 1924, it could actually be taken in Russia/Ukraine. Dahn 10:49, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, you're right. I was struggling to work that out myself. The caption in the book states 'Trotsky and Rakovsky, circa 1924', but I wanted to give the caption more context. I suppose it must be Russia/Ukraine as you state. Perhaps we could go with something like "Rakovsky with Leon Trotsky circa 1924. Trotsky and Rakovsky travelled together in Romania and Bulgaria in the 1910s while Trotsky was covering the Balkan Wars." — how does that sound? - Francis Tyers · 10:58, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Sounds perfect to me. Dahn 11:05, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

I rephrased a bit: I'm not sure if they traveled to Bulgaria during the actual Wars, but rather at some other point in the 1910s. Dahn 11:11, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

If you can come accross Trotsky's The Balkan Wars, 1912-1913 for cheap I'd recommend you buy it. It is pretty interesting. I haven't got to that part yet, but when I do I'll amend it if necessary. - Francis Tyers · 11:32, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Name

A recent article by Henry Makow (not entirely reliable, I know), claims Rakovsky's real name was Chaim Rakeover. This tidbit is all over the internet, in many languages, but the mentions all seem to be copied from one another. Is there any truth to this? Was he in fact Jewish? 38.115.185.2 17:39, 13 October 2007 (UTC)LNelson

I wouldn't take anything Mr. Makow says for granted, and the fact that this info only surfaces in articles "exposing" the "Jewery conspiracy" only adds to the matter. Not only doesn't any respectable source (British, Romanian, and, as far as I can tell, Russian, Ukrainian or Bulgarian) mention this supposed Jewish origin (not even as a working theory), but Rakovsky himself said he was an ethnic Bulgarian, was identified as such in all countries he resided in, and it is very likely that he descended from Georgi Sava Rakovski. Dahn 23:41, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Christian Rakovsky was the nephew of Georgi Sava Rakovsky, at least according to the biography by Francis Conte, published by Columbia University Press in 1989.

Wrong Term

I found on the page a comment that Rakovksy was credited with having developed the Trotskyist critique of the Soviet Union as "bureaucratic collectivism." In fact this was the term which Max Shachtman used and which Trotsky expelled him for. There is no "Trotskyist critque" of the Soviet Union as "bureaucratic collectivism." One can speak of a Shachtmanite critique of this type, and then note that Trotsky rejected that view. But what exactly does Rakovsky have to do with this? Is there some record of him using this phrase "bureaucratic collectivism" somewhere? Or did someone merely use the wrong term. Trotsky's favored term was "bureaucratically degenerated workers state." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.247.134.80 (talk) 13:37, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Pointed out

It has been pointed out that Stalin's shooting of Rakovsky in 1941 was an attempt to eliminate any alternative leadership, at a time of military defeat. This was noted by Conquest in "The Great Terror". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.220.169.166 (talk) 15:47, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

Rakovsky jewish?

Rakowsky means "Österreicher" (t.i. "Austrian") which is/was a wide spread jewish name in Austrian empire. It is - like "Frankfurter", "Deutsch" a.s.o. a name that refers to the regions/towns the nameholders came from. So - Mr. Rakowsky / Rakovsky is very likely to be of that descent. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.108.98.124 (talk) 10:11, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

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Unreliable source?

The article tags some references as unreliable. Why is an article written by a recognized historian unreliable? Because some wikipedian does not like the author? Where is wikipedia going if personal opinions are prevalent? Afil (talk) 16:52, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

The author is a philosopher and sociologist by training, and politician and journalist by trade. NOT a historian. The venue is a popular history magazine, without much standing. The claims are extraordinary: the author psychoanalyses the subject of the article (though he has no credentials for doing so) and his historical analysis goes against well established facts. Admittedly, he could be attributed on each and every claim, but, due to his lack of credentials, that would be WP:UNDUE.Anonimu (talk) 17:33, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

Dear Anonimu. Stelian Tănase has written many articles and screenplays with historical content. In any case have extreme doubts that you can claim credentials which would make you competent for judging him. What are your credentials which enable you to make the judgement that Stelian Tănase in not credible. You claim to be a bachelor of science. Does that mean that you can competently judge the work of a person who has published articles of historic content in reputed publication, who has a PhD from one of the most important Universities in Romania, who has lectured at many American universities and has many other important achievements. Don't you think you are excessively presumptuous? Are you sure that the other persons quoted have the right qaulitications. Cioculescu, Iosif, Anghel, Victor Frunză and others have even less connections with history than Tănase. Why did you not say that they are unreliable sources? I am very curious to know where you found the information about the background of Gus Fagan, Teofanov. Your statement can hardly be accepted as an objective statement. Afil (talk) 03:16, 29 May 2018 (UTC)