Talk:Christian Krattenthaler

More details for Christian Krattenthaler

I put (twice) more details on my musical career on the wikipedia page about my person. It was undone twice without even looking at it.

I want these changes be done. They are factual. I repeat sources:

• https://www.mat.univie.ac.at/~kratt/ -> "some samples" at the bottom of the page.
• http://www.profgraf.com/index.php/Schuelerinnen/Schuelerinnen

By the way, I read that this article is a translation of the page from the German wikipedia. This is not true anymore since, so far, you did not accept the translation of the last paragraph. 213.142.96.222 (talk) 16:00, 14 October 2023 (UTC)

Your edits weren't undone "without even looking at it." They had no references.

The first link is your own home page and a reliable secondary source is really ideal. The samples page you are referring to is just a list of links to mp3s.

The second link doesn't work for me. I get a dead URL. ThaddeusSholto (talk) 18:39, 14 October 2023 (UTC)

> The samples page you are referring to is just a list of links to mp3s.

No, this is incorrect. It is a list of links to webpages that provide

detailed information on the piece, a list of the performers, date of the

performance, location of the performance, and, yes, a link to a mp3-file

or a mp4-file to listen/see the performance.

> The second link doesn't work for me.

Here it is again:

http://www.profgraf.com/index.php/Schuelerinnen/Schuelerinnen

It provides a list of all students of Hans Graf.

Furthermore, I repeat: I have gone through all this already on the German

wikipedia. The responsible person there got convinced.

With best wishes,

Christian Krattenthaler 213.142.97.8 (talk) 23:13, 14 October 2023 (UTC)

The information on the sample site is from you because it is your website. You are ignoring everything I said about primary sources.

You can keep giving that second URL but it will keep not working because the certificates are invalid. Most browsers block access to websites with invalid certificates.

It was already explained to you that what happens on another Wiki has no bearing on this Wiki. In fact, that message from the mod who blocked you even explained about primary and secondary sources. You seem to just keep ignoring what people tell you and just repeating the same information about the two URLs you want added. ThaddeusSholto (talk) 14:06, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

Thank you that you finally provide information with which one can work.

> The information on the sample site is from you because it is your website.

Yes, and so what? Does it automatically mean that it contains nonsense?

> You are ignoring everything I said about primary sources.

You said nothing about primary sources but something about reliable secondary

sources.

> You can keep giving that second URL but it will keep not working because the > certificates are invalid. Most browsers block access to websites with

> invalid certificates.

I can't confirm the last statement (I tried all three browsers that I dispose

of - Safari, Firefox, Chrome - all of them display the page, at the same

time signaling that the URL is not safe).

Anyhow, now that I know what the problem is, would you accept this page:

https://web.archive.org/web/20071116044056/http://www.mdw.ac.at/?pageid=508

It says:

"Neben seiner Ausbildung zum Mathematiker absolvierte Krattenthaler das Studium Konzertfach Klavier in der Klasse von Prof. Hans Graf."

which in English is:

"In parallel to his education as mathematician, he studied piano in the

class of Prof. Hans Graf."

As for the chamber music activities and partners:

which kind of "reliable secondary sources" would you like to see?

Web announcements of the recitals?

I hope that you realize that, by definition, such a thing cannot exist.

We are talking of the 1980s.

So, what kind of evidence would you like to see?

Do you want phone numbers/email addresses of my chamber music partners?

Of people who attended the recitals?

I can scan the program sheets from then and make them available to you,

if this helps. I can also scan concert reviews published in the Wiener

Zeitung from then and make them available to you, if that helps.

However, I believe that at some point we should remind ourselves that

wikipedia is not about obeying rules (that in some circumstances make no

sense) but about providing facts for the user.

> You seem to just keep ignoring what people tell you and just repeating the

> same information about the two URLs you want added.

No, I don't want the two URLs added.

I want the factual information about my musical activities from the 1980s

up to 1991, as I entered them, added to the wikipedia page which is

about myself. In particular, I want to acknowledge and honor my musical partners.

With best wishes,

Christian Krattenthaler 213.142.96.113 (talk) 16:55, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

I didn't say your own website would be nonsense I said that it is a primary source and we rely on secondary sources. I did try to explain about secondary vs primary sources here and it was explained by Drmies here. All you have to do is actually read the policy links that have been provided for you repeatedly. This article isn't a resume. If there aren't verifiable, reliable, secondary sources then the information doesn't get included. Wikipedia doesn't need to report on every fact that ever happened. I added the detail about Hans Graf to the article. ThaddeusSholto (talk) 11:24, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

> All you have to do is actually read the policy links that have been

> provided for you repeatedly.

Don't worry, I looked at these things. However, you will understand that

I found them only partially useful since I found things like "Worse,

the link that was there, it doesn't show anything about Krattenthaler

now". I have no idea about what we are talking about here; all links

that I provided contained "Krattenthaler".

> This article isn't a resume.

Sure. You can be ascertained that my resum'e looks quite different.

More to the point:

> I added the detail about Hans Graf to the article.

Thank you very much!

It has several problems though.

First, you put a sentence that is non-sensical.

There is no such thing as a "trained concert pianist with somebody".

This is complete nonsense.

Second, you did not put that I studied at the Hochschule für Musik

und Darstellende Kunst (now University of Music and Performing Arts

Vienna), an information that is also clearly on

https://web.archive.org/web/20071116044056/http://www.mdw.ac.at/?pageid=508

Third you put a link to Hans Graf, namely

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Graf

the conductor Hans Graf. I have nothing to do with the conductor

Hans Graf. (Do I have to provided a "reliable secondary source" for

that?) I studied with Hans Graf, the pianist,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Graf_(pianist)

Is it really such a big problem that you simply put the text that I

had entered?

Furthermore, this same website

https://web.archive.org/web/20071116044056/http://www.mdw.ac.at/?pageid=508

also says that I played trio with Herwig Tachezi.

Moreover, I discovered that one place where we performed has indeed

converted their old programs to electronic. On this page

https://konzerthaus.at/konzert/eventid/33135

of the Wiener Konzerthaus (a "very reputable" institution of which a

Wikipedia page exists) you can see that I played with Thomas Wolf.

So, at this point, do you think that there is enough evidence so that

the sentence "Frequent chamber music partners were Herwig Tachezi

(violoncello) and Thomas C. Wolf (violin)." is justified?

From here on, do I have to negotiate every single one of the others

that I mentioned?

As for Bernhard Biberauer, you may want to look at

https://www.mat.univie.ac.at/~kratt/wiki3.pdf

which shows a scan of a concert program in the Salzburger

Schlosskonzerte (another "very reputable" institution; mentioned on

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirabell_Palace

-> Salzburg Palace Concerts).

(There exists also a German Wikipedia page.)

As for Anton Straka and Peter Siakala, you may want to look at

https://www.mat.univie.ac.at/~kratt/wiki4.pdf

which shows the scan of a concert program together with newspaper

reviews, the first one having been published in the Wiener Zeitung,

again a "very reputable" newspaper with its Wikipedia page

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiener_Zeitung

Finally, as for Alfred Hertel, you may want to look at

https://www.mat.univie.ac.at/~kratt/wiki8.pdf

I have many more, for all of these.

Would you be so kind to put the complete text as I entered it?

With best wishes,

Christian Krattenthaler 213.142.96.181 (talk) 00:03, 18 October 2023 (UTC)