Talk:Christian Bale/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

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Application for American citizenship.

Mr. Bale has lived and worked the better part of his live in America, and is married to an American, in 2010 it was first reported that he is seeking to finally become an American citizen and has applied for citizenship of the United States of America. That should be incorporated accordingly, preferably in the section "Personal Life". Sources for example: http://christian-bale.org/2010/04/03/christian-bale-seeking-u-s-citizenship/ http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/christian-bale-reportedly-applying-citizenship-1923997

Your first source is not a WP:RS. At any rate not very important but might possibly warrant a passing mention. --109.149.122.154 (talk) 12:00, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

The second source is reliable. I've updated the page with his citizenship application. Meatsgains (talk) 16:54, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

Looks good. But it's strange how there's been no word since... (109.149.122.154) --Type 59 (talk) 23:15, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

@Type 59: It is certainly strange and there also isn't much coverage in reliable sources. Meatsgains (talk) 01:19, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 June 2016

Change from 'is an English actor' to Welsh actor because he is not English he is Welsh

Also change nationality to Welsh not English

2.30.199.220 (talk) 02:42, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

Please read the section at the top of the page explaining that this is yet another repeat of a previous argument. Search the archive there and the read the discussion itself if you want further proof. 4TheWynne^{(talk)(contribs)} 03:38, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

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Christian Bales obvious nationality

- British actor Christian Bale has starred in various films, as well as advertisements and a video game. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Bale_filmography - Christian Charles Phillip Bale (* 30. Januar 1974 in Haverfordwest, Pembrokeshire, Wales) ist ein britischer Schauspieler. - https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Bale - Christian Bale, znany także jako Christian Morgan Bale, właściwie Christian Charles Phillip Bale (ur. 30 stycznia 1974 w Haverfordwest) − brytyjski aktor filmowy i telewizyjny, producent filmowy. - https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Bale - Christian Bale, né le 30 janvier 1974 à Haverfordwest, est un acteur britannique. - https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Bale - Christian Charles Philip Bale (Haverfordwest, Gales, 30 de enero de 1974), conocido como Christian Bale, es un actor británico. - https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Bale - Christian Charles Phillip Bale, född 30 januari 1974 i Haverfordwest, Pembrokeshire, Wales, är en brittisk skådespelare. - https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Bale - Christian Charles Philip Bale (Haverfordwest, 30 de janeiro de 1974) é um ator britânico nascido no País de Gales[1] - https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Bale -Christian Charles Philip Bale (født 30. januar 1974) er en Screen Actors Guild Award-nomineret, Saturn Award-vindende walisisk-født britisk skuespiller. - https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Bale -Christian Charles Philip Bale (Haverfordwest, 30 gennaio 1974) è un attore britannico. - https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Bale -Christian Charles Philip Bale (* 30. január 1974, Haverfordwest, Wales, Spojené kráľovstvo) je britský herec, rodák z Walesu. - https://sk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Bale

British Actor = britischer Schauspieler, brytyjski actor, acteur britannique, actor británico, ator britânico, britisk skuespiller, attore britannico, britský herec

I obviously haven't searched every Wikipedia entry on Christian Bale in every language (If someone has the time please feel free to do so) but out of the 8 I've researched so far, they all refer to Christian Bale as a British actor

In complete contrast however, the English Wikipedia refers to him as - Christian Charles Philip Bale (born 30 January 1974) is an English actor - Are all the other Wikipedia's in the world incorrect?

Christian Bale was born in Wales; 1 of the 4 Country's which make up the United Kingdom or Britain. He lived there until he was 1 1/2, before moving to live in England. His birth certificate will state that he was born in Wales, not England. In the article sited as the reason for referring to him as an 'English actor' (http://www.phase9.tv/moviefeatures/reignoffire-christianbale.shtml) he says - 'I'm English I think because I grew up in England'. But he also says '...so I thought it was great when I was called a Welsh actor and it stuck' as well as 'But I am kind of rootless really. Even when I think of England there is no place that I think of as being my roots. There was no town that I was in for long enough or liked enough that I want to consider it my roots'.

The second link on the English Christian Bale Wikipedia page used to justify referring to him as an English actor, leads to an IMDB interview, where the link to the original interview is no longer available. Therefore it's not possible to see whether his comment on 'I was born in Wales but I'm not Welsh - I'm English.' Is actually stated, taken out of context, said in jest or simply made up. This therefore surely falls in to the category as unsubstantiated or poorly researched and should, I think, be removed.

So to summarize - Christian Bale was born in Wales, thinks it is great that he is called 'Welsh'. Simply thinks he's English, because he grew up there, but can't consider any place in England as being his roots, and didn't spend enough time in any town, or like one enough to think of it as his roots. Beyond the age of 17 he has spent more years of his life outside of England than in. And against all the versions of Wikipedia, the English version maintains he is an English Actor!

Can any sensible Wikipedia administrator explain to me why it wouldn't make more sense to refer to Christian Bale as a British actor? This would not negate his comments regarding him considering himself English, but would singularly align his English Wikipedia entry with all the others in other languages and clear up any confusion in the fact that he was born in Wales but is referred to; almost only by the English Wikipedia entry for him, as an English actor. (86.17.94.166 (talk) 22:41, 8 September 2016 (UTC))

Yeah, I must agree with the comments above (86.17.94.166 (talk · contribs · WHOIS)). Nearly every other site I've seen on the internet, either refers to Christian Bale as a Welsh-born English Actor or British Actor. Even in his GMTV interview, he says when asked about his Welsh origins, 'I was born there, I go back there, I like that people call me that - but truly I grew up in England, as you can hear.' He says I'm not a true Taffy, but he doesn't say, I'm not Welsh and he doesn't say, I'm English. And as referenced above, in a previous interview he says he moved around a lot and won't even align himself with any place in England. These seems like the comments of a person that doesn't want to specifically align himself with any one particular place, which is fair enough. But if Wikipedia is to be worth it's salt than surely it needs to strive to be as clear as possible. By having the Lead saying he is an English actor and listing his birth in Wales is simply confusing and obviously causes a good deal of constination with Wiki users, on the subject. Welsh-born English actor (with citations) would be a fair compromise. British actor; in accordance with all the other non-English speaking Wikipedia pages on Christian Bale, would make more sense and cover all contingencies. Why do Wikipedia Administrators have to be so ridiculous over such simple matters, really?

I locked the article because it was constantly being hit with edits violating the biographies of living persons policy. I was not at all motivated by arguments over his nationality; in fact, I couldn't care less about what it is one way or the other, only what consensus agrees upon. Previous consensus on this page seems to favor listing Bale as English. Please see this discussion, here, and also here (among other posts on this discussion page and the archive I pointed you towards). Airplaneman ✈ 23:30, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

Why do you ([User:Airplaneman]) get to lock this article? I want to understand how this works. Because I believe your decision was arbitrary, too hasty, and not based on the evidence presented. Who do I see about unlocking your lock? I do not believe you are qualified to make this decision on your own.

And please, make no mistake - I understand completely why you [User:Airplaneman] would wish to lock it down. We can't have people changing an article twice a day. Agreed. My point is strictly about deciding what state it was going to be locked down in. There is a better, more neutral way to handle this. Tj Powell in Houston, Texas 04/22/17 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.194.39.86 (talk) 07:17, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

Don't get on your high horses – what makes you can think you can object? You need to have a far better understanding of how Wikipedia works (and why this argument has been going for so long, as in years) before you can even think to say things like that – you're saying "I do not believe you are qualified" to an administrator. 4TheWynne^{(talk)(contribs)} 07:22, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

Really? Is that the WP way of resolving issues? This is a talk page. There is no rule against "objecting". I have recently been reminded of the rules here, and perhaps you could yourself use a refresher. In any case, I DO object. I contribute a great deal of money and effort to WP, to ensure that no one person can be allowed to make arbitrary decisions. "What makes me think I can object?" That is your answer, sir. And please pay attention while I show how well that works. I do not believe you or the "admin" was qualified to make any such decision - rules notwithstanding. Allowed to plead my case, I will prove it to be true. If you are not interested in the truth, then why are you investing time here on WP? Answer that single question and I will rest my case here and now. TJ Powell, Houston, Texas April 22, 2017 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.194.39.86 (talk) 07:34, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

Just to make it easier for you, here are my 'credentials'. Feel free to respond to me directly if you have any more questions. Tjp1962 (talk) 07:45, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

Go right ahead – "prove it to be true" (that Bale is Welsh). I have just responded to your message on my talk page by explaining how. 4TheWynne^{(talk)(contribs)} 09:08, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

I have, as a previously registered user, been involved with this article and the non-issue dispute over his lede nationality since around ca. 2010! This non-issue keeps being raised in a very boomerang-esq fashion every few months or so - none of the arguments are original or particularly interesting to say the least, but I just wish to reiterate a few pointers that have been raised maaaany times before: 1) British is technically accurate. Technically being the operative term here. 2) His "Welshness", or lack of in this case, is pretty much irrelevant to his career and notability here on Wikipedia. On the flip side, the same could be said about his "Englishness". 3) Any arguments that he should be described as British based on the fact he was born in Wales is bordering on trying to apply a blanket rule - which is simply unworkable. 4) Describing him as British is not inaccurate and shouldn't really be controversial, but the same has to be said about him being described as English, imo. In all, my opinion is that as this article has had him listed as "English" for such a great amount of time, changing it would be frivolous at best. Ta, --109.147.193.11 (talk) 15:40, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 20 December 2017

Change from: Christian Charles Philip Bale (born 30 January 1974) is an English actor

Change to: Christian Charles Philip Bale (born 30 January 1974) is a Welsh actor

Christian Bale was born in Wales, a country within the UK which is not England i.e. making him a Welsh Actor not an English One. He may also be refered to as a British Actor. Lewiscarr (talk) 05:11, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

 Not done – this has been extensively discussed and rebutted. Look through the talk page history and archive. 4TheWynne^{(talk)(contribs)} 06:34, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 October 2016

Christian Bale is a Welsh actor

CLThornton (talk) 14:52, 18 October 2016 (UTC)

 Not done - as it says at the top of this page:-

Discussions on this page often lead to previous arguments, especially about whether Christian Bale is English, Welsh, or British, being restated. Please read recent comments and look in the archives before commenting on that topic. Restarting a debate that has already been settled may be taken as "asking the other parent", disruptive and even tendentious, unless consensus has changed or is likely to change.

Consensus is for the current version. - Arjayay (talk) 16:09, 18 October 2016 (UTC)

I find it hard to believe that anyone could even argue about his nationality. He was born in Wales. That makes him Welsh. He is NOT English. It's not possible. Wales and England, for those of you who do not know, are part of the same Country: The United Kingdom. So the rough US equivalent would be a state. Wales would be a state, and England, another state. He can't be from both places, and we know he was born in Haverfordwest, Wales. Right? So that makes him a Welsh actor. There is simply no other answer to this question. He make not like it. His publicist may not like it. The editors here may not like it. But it simply IS a fact. And FACTS are what WP is supposed to be about. Not whims or opinions. That is a terrible decision. Deleting facts don't do anyone any good. This is more like publicist propaganda than truth. Is that what we really want from WP? I don't. If he now moved to Russia, would we call him a "Russian Actor"? Come on folks, let's not ruin WP because someone wants to spin an article. At the very least, just take the whole statement out and let people decide for themselves where he's from. TJ Powell from Wales, by way of Houston, Texas April 22, 2017 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.194.39.86 (talk) 07:11, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

Birth doesn't indicate nationality. Please read the Wikipedia article; Nationality of people from the United Kingdom for more guidance. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sellsomepapers (talk • contribs) 21:23, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 January 2019

In the line: "Bale was arrested in London after being accused of "assault" by his mother, Jenny, and sister, Sharon, at The Dorchester hotel." Remove the quotation marks from the word "assault." I understand that whoever put them there was trying to emphasize that the assault is only an allegation, but the phrase "being accused of" serves the same purpose. The quotation marks make the sentence read very awkwardly, and it's not really a correct use of quotation marks. Sjbennington (talk) 16:11, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

 Done – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:57, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 April 2018

"How can he be English if he was born in Wales!!" 82.3.220.80 (talk) 07:59, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

 Not done as the article quotes him saying "I was born in Wales but I'm not Welsh – I'm English". - Arjayay (talk) 12:49, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

The real question is, how can he be English-American? He resides in America, but that’s not his nationality. There’s a clear American bias on Wikipedia when it comes to this. A counter example would be Cate Blanchett, who is listed as Australian only even though she resides in the UK. Why not English-Australian then? Stopthepurge (talk) 01:10, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

Ummm...American is his nationality, or at least one of two. Perhaps you really ought to know your facts before you declare "not his nationality." You are wasting other editor's time because you didn't enact due diligence. Bale has been a US citizen for a few years now. If anything, I'd say there's a clear anti-American bias if anything with people attempting to edit war his status out of existence. (Sellpink (talk) 19:55, 27 January 2019 (UTC))

Agreed, either specify the nationality correctly, or change it to citizenship (British-American)

This is not out of line with other actor pages, eg., Tom_Ellis_(actor) 74.14.220.104 (talk) 02:17, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

Rationality

Chtistian bale is not an English-American, he is born in Wales and this must be changed as many famous welsh people are being portrayed to other countries as English when this is simply not the truth Meta mojo (talk) 20:32, 20 July 2019 (UTC)

He has stated in the past that although he was born in Wales, he isn't really Welsh but English.--Trans-Neptunian object (talk) 10:50, 14 August 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 September 2019

Welsh Actor not English he was born in wales 2A00:23C7:A085:8600:3831:129:37F5:A07C (talk) 21:48, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. This appears to have been previously discussed ad nauseum. NiciVampireHeart 21:54, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

Nationality

If Bale was born in Wales, and he has British/American citizenship, why does the article list him as English? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 51.9.150.132 (talk) 18:59, 30 October 2019 (UTC)

^^^ You can listen to Christian Bale himself here on this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muo7zu3airQ.

Because his parents are English and Bale says he is English. Reading the article and this page would help.Halbared (talk) 20:11, 30 October 2019 (UTC)

Christian Bale is NOT English, he is Welsh from the country of Wales, United Kingdom, STOP saying he is "English" because he is NOT

Christian Bale is NOT English, he is from Wales and that would make him more accurately described as WELSH. STOP THE BULLSHIT about him being "English" ...he should be listed as Welsh or Welsh-American in the first paragraph of this article!

^^^ You can listen to Christian Bale explicitly state HIMSELF here that he is not Welsh, but English - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muo7zu3airQ, sounds like you're the one who needs to STOP THE BULLSHIT idiot.

If I'm white-European and I'm born in China, does that make me Chinese? Don't be so ridiculous. Bale's parents are English. So is he. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 167.98.64.249 (talk) 10:25, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

The article has said, "Bale has remarked, 'I was born in Wales but I'm not Welsh – I'm English'."

Semi-protected edit request on 23 December 2019

Job Meredydd (talk) 11:22, 23 December 2019 (UTC)

English actor should be changed to British actor. OR Welsh born British actor. Job Meredydd (talk) 11:22, 23 December 2019 (UTC)

 Not done. Please establish a consensus for this change first before making this edit request. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 14:52, 23 December 2019 (UTC)

Nationality citation

Could we also add this video as a citation to Bale being English not Welsh - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muo7zu3airQ, maybe this would help avoid vandalism from Welsh users in the future? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C5:74F:5600:BD30:B4AE:492:2C3C (talk) 11:55, 16 November 2019 (UTC)

Counts for nothing.......he was born in Wales so is therefore Welsh. Messi was born in Argentina but from a very early age he grew up in Spain at the Barcelona academy........but Messi is Argentinian NOT Spanish.

Amjapa (talk) 12:01, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

If he had been born in China to English parents, and moved back to England as a toddler, grown up there etc, we would not refer to him as a Chinese actor. Messi has Argentinian parents and moved to Spain at 13 so that argument is nonsense.

Semi-protected edit request on 18 February 2020

Christian Bale is not an English actor. He was born in Haverfordwest which is in WALES (UK). 2A00:23C4:F4A8:D300:A491:DBC5:888A:5FFE (talk) 17:51, 18 February 2020 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. See above Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 18:24, 18 February 2020 (UTC)

Why are so many Welsh folks so keen to claim a guy who has no Welsh ancestry and who moved away from Wales when he was very young, and is on record for denying being Welsh? Bizarre.--2A00:23C4:3E0F:4400:E4DD:525E:BA4A:90F (talk) 20:32, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

Nationality

Have been born in Wales to English parents the simplest way to describe him is as British JamesBarrieSheppard (talk) 23:03, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

English is perfectly fine and descriptive. No one would dare someone English-born but raised in Wales that due to their “foreign” birth they must be described as British.2A00:23C4:3E0F:4400:AC8D:814F:996D:C91B (talk) 16:14, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 June 2020

X= "An English actor" "Category:20th-century English male actors" "Category:21st-century English male actors" "Category:English emigrants to the United States" "Category:English male child actors" "Category:English male film actors" "Category:English male voice actors"

Y= "A British actor" "Category:20th-century British male actors" "Category:21st-century British male actors" "Category:British emigrants to the United States" "Category:British male child actors" "Category:British male film actors" Because if you are born in 1 part of the UK then move to another country within the UK, then you are "British". 81.101.15.25 (talk) 20:02, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. Repetitive and disruptive edit request, see all of the above. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 20:24, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

I am sorry. I just meant that if you combine England (his country) and Wales (where he was born) you get Britain.81.101.15.25 (talk) 20:32, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

That is unnecessary, his ethnicity is covered, and his nationality is covered.Halbared (talk) 11:08, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 July 2020

X=an English people|English actor Category:20th-century English male actors Category:21st-century English male actors Category:English emigrants to the United States Category:English male child actors Category:English male film actors Category:English male voice actors Y=a British people|British actor Category:20th-century British male actors Category:21st-century British male actors Category:British emigrants to the United States Category:British male child actors Category:British male film actors Category:British male voice actors 81.101.15.25 (talk) 19:29, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. Requesting the same thing multiple times won't magically create consensus. Rummskartoffel (talk) 19:46, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

I just think it sounds better. 81.101.15.25 (talk) 19:48, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

Please don't reopen this edit request until after you have gained consensus. Rummskartoffel (talk) 20:31, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

I just think that it is more appropriate because he wasnt born in England.81.101.15.25 (talk) 20:33, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

How can it be more appropriate if he's English?Halbared (talk) 21:52, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 July 2020

Nationality of Christian Bale is British, not English. He was born in Wales, not England. 89.243.47.22 (talk) 18:33, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

See above discussions – Thjarkur (talk) 19:08, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

But he is from 2 countries of the UK.81.101.15.25 (talk) 19:28, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 October 2020

He is a Welsh actor, not English 82.9.85.255 (talk) 03:52, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

To editor 82.9.85.255:  Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. -ink&fables «talk» 07:33, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 November 2020

It states that Christian Bale is an English actor while saying he was born in Haverfordwest, Pembrokeshire, Wales. It should state that he is either a Welsh actor or a British actor. 146.200.39.99 (talk) 17:50, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

Read more.Halbared (talk) 20:44, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: per previous discussions on this page. Feel free to start an RFC or something if you'd like to try to establish a consensus to change this, but an edit request isn't going to do it. ‑‑ElHef (Meep?) 21:19, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 December 2020

Change: Christian Charles Philip Bale (born 30 January 1974) is an English actor.

To: Christian Charles Philip Bale (born 30 January 1974) is a British actor.
Alternative: Christian Charles Philip Bale (born 30 January 1974) is a Welsh actor.
Reason: Christian Bale was born in Haverfordwest, Pembrokeshire, which is in Wales, not England 2A02:C7F:8B02:C300:99DE:6433:2B7B:A5E2 (talk) 18:40, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: Not done, read the talk page.Halbared (talk) 20:54, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

English Nationality Citation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muo7zu3airQ

Please add this as a citation for nationality, maybe if people can see Bale explicitly stating himself that he is not Welsh, that might stop users from trying to change it in the future.

It's already sourced. And we can't add links to copyrighted videos. Sundayclose (talk) 00:56, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

This may not stop users because when you apply context you might be able to see that he's talking about heritage, not nationality. I can't believe this has to be explained. Ursinism (talk) 06:04, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

So how do you explain this quote then? - "Bale has remarked, "I was born in Wales but I'm not Welsh – I'm English". Why are so you desperate to claim a guy who has repeatedly denied being Welsh in any way, shape of form? Is Kiefer Sutherland English to you as well? Given that he was born in London? And again, if you're talking about nationality then Bale's would be officially British anyway, via his passport, not Welsh. So that argument is nonsense.

Let's be honest most people in Wales aren't even Welsh today, regardless of who their parents are. Same as in Scotland. The reason they're so desperate to claim these people are the same reason concepts like 'Irish-Americans' and 'German-Americans' are a thing too. Cryptoidentities do be like that. Since there's no real objective way to quantify 'Welshness' (since we're now pretending Welshness has nothing to do with actually speaking Welsh), people can just perform mental gymnastics and claim someone born in a plane flying over Wales at the time is... Welsh.

Nationaliy of Christian Bale

Christian Bale isnt an English actor he is Welsh. He was born in Haverfordwest which is in Wales, United Kingdon therefore making him Welsh. Amjapa (talk) 11:57, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

I know it's been said before but it should be continued to be said until its corrected..........he is WELSH Amjapa (talk) 12:02, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

Bale's parents are English, and he himself says he is English.Halbared (talk) 12:06, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

He clearly states himself here that he is not Welsh, but English - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muo7zu3airQ. Being born in Wales to English parents then moving back to England as a two year old does not make you Welsh.

If he had been born in China to English parents, and moved back to England, grown up there etc, we would not refer to him as a Chinese actor.

If he had been born in China to English parents and move back to England, grown up there etc, he would be a Chinese actor because we are talking about nationality and that is the country you are born in, unless its laws say otherwise. Being born in Wales to English parents then moving back to England at whatever age, makes you Welsh, not English. He's Welsh, weather you like it or not, and the youtube clip in where he says he's English he's taking about heritage, not nationality. Let alone when you listen to him speak. Ursinism (talk) 06:00, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

This isn't that complicated...but it also isn't right calling him simply English. He's Welsh, born to English parents, and raised in England. Those are the facts. Anything else is make-believe.--104.15.130.191 (talk) 11:57, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

How is he welsh?Halbared (talk) 12:12, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

Christian Bale

Christian Bale is Welsh not English!

GowertonDave (talk) 01:13, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: See above. Jack Frost (talk) 01:48, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

LOL just try being born to English parents and growing up anywhere in Wales north of Cardiff. Stop claiming someone just because they're famous.--2A00:23C4:3E08:4000:501A:D9BA:3482:650F (talk) 22:15, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 March 2021

It would be more factually correct to change it from "English actor" to British in the first paragraph as he was born in Wales. 82.7.61.155 (talk) 21:09, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. KyleJoan^talk 01:58, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 April 2021

Christian Bale is Welsh 2A02:C7F:AF43:6400:25A1:B7A8:1BEB:C3A1 (talk) 19:49, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. KyleJoan^talk 19:58, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Christian Bale/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Some Dude From North Carolina (talk · contribs) 14:09, 1 May 2021 (UTC)

Hey, I'm going to be reviewing this article. Expect comments by the end of the week. Some Dude From North Carolina (talk) 14:09, 1 May 2021 (UTC)

Lead

• Great lead; no issues here!

Early life

• This section looks good.

Career

• "in order to" → "to" (less wordy)
• "Nolan's three Batman films [...] is" → "Nolan's three Batman films [...] are"
  •  Done I changed the phrase from Nolan's three Batman films to Nolan's Batman film series because the praise was specifically for the films as one franchise. KyleJoan^talk 15:23, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

Artistry and public image

• No issues here.

Personal life

• Not sure if "a brain lymphoma" is correct. Maybe just "brain lymphoma"?
  •  Done KyleJoan^talk 15:23, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

Acting credits and accolades

• This section looks good.

References

• Can't cite WP:IMDB (#7).
• Don't use WP:ALLCAPS (#12).
• RadioFree.com should be in italics (#35).
• MovieWeb should be in italics (#39).
• MTV should be in italics (#53).
• Overall, just see Template:Cite web#Publisher.
• Mark citations from Esquire with "|url-access=limited".
• Mark citations from The Atlantic with "|url-access=limited".
• Mark citations from The Daily Telegraph with "|url-access=registration".
• Mark citations from The Los Angeles Times with "|url-access=limited".
• Mark citations from The New York Times with "|url-access=limited".
• Mark citations from The Washington Post with "|url-access=limited".
• Mark citations from Time with "|url-access=limited".
• Mark citations from Vanity Fair with "|url-access=limited".
• Mark citations from Vulture with "|url-access=limited".
• References are archived.
  •  Done I replaced IMDb with Yahoo! Movies, both of which say the exact quote. KyleJoan^talk 15:23, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

Progress

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
It is reasonably well written. a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): It is factually accurate and verifiable. a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism): It is broad in its coverage. a (major aspects): b (focused): It follows the neutral point of view policy. Fair representation without bias: It is stable. No edit wars, etc.: It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate. a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall: Pass/Fail:
· · ·

Semi-protected edit request on 2 May 2021

Christian bale is a welsh actor not English 2A01:4C8:826:990C:995F:65EA:EE3F:4D2 (talk) 17:28, 2 May 2021 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. KyleJoan^talk 17:42, 2 May 2021 (UTC)

His wife's name

• BBC News: "Bale also stopped at a makeshift memorial to the victims near the cinema with his wife Sandra Blazic."[1]
• CNN: "Actor Christian Bale and his wife Sandra Blazic visit the memorial..."[2]
• The Daily Telegraph: "The Batman star “flew off the handle” and “cussed” his mother after she said “outrageous” things about former model Sandra 'Sibi' Blazic..."[3]
• Digital Spy: "Christian married Sandra (Sibi) Blazic, Winona Ryder's former assistant, in Las Vegas in 2000."[4]
• The Guardian: "His two children – the product of his marriage to Sandra Blažić – have not seen his own films..."[5]
• Los Angeles Times: "Christian Bale and his wife Sandra Blazic visit the memorial across the street from the Century."[6]
• NBC News: "The actor and his wife, Sandra Blazic, also visited a makeshift memorial across the street from the Century 16 movie theater."[7]
• New York Daily News: "Bale, who lives in Los Angeles, was in London with his wife of eight years, Sandra (Sibi) Blazic, for Monday's European premiere of "The Dark Knight.""[8]
• People: "Bale has been married to his wife, Sandra “Sibi” Blazic, since 2000..."[9]
• Reuters: "British actor Christian Bale and his wife Sandra "Sibi" Blazic pose..."[10]

Which reliable sources say her name isn't Sandra? KyleJoan^talk 04:00, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 June 2021

Christian Charles Philip Bale (born 30 January 1974) is an Welsh actor. 92.26.113.11 (talk) 18:03, 25 June 2021 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. KyleJoan^talk 18:09, 25 June 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 July 2021

Christian Bale , Welsh actor , not English 2A02:C7F:D316:5F00:3881:406:2991:B78 (talk) 22:08, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: Read above. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 22:13, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

Please see video, he is not Welsh - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muo7zu3airQ

First starring role

The article claims that Empire of the Sun (film) was Bale's first starring role. But didn't he have a starring role as Yum-Yum (Jum-Jum) in Mio in the Land of Faraway, which was released almost half a year before Empire of the Sun? /Julle (talk) 03:16, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

According to BBC America, The Daily Telegraph, and Time, Bale's starring role in Empire of the Sun was his first, so his casting could have happened before that in Mio in the Land of Faraway. Empire received a wide release in December 1987. In addition to the lack of information about when in 1987 was Mio's Swedish release, there seems to be a significant interval between this unknown date and the film's release date in other territories (e.g., AllMovie specifies September 1988 as its US release month). This ambiguity surrounding the release period could be why sources aren't assigning weight to the timing of his role in Mio. KyleJoan^talk 04:39, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

I looked around in the archive of a Swedish newspaper (Svenska Dagbladet), and the world premiere seems to have been the film festival in Moscow in July 1987 (Sörenson, Elisabeth: "Svensk film syns i Cannes", Svenska Dagbladet, 1987-05-12, p. 11, reviewed in Svenska Dagbladet 1987-07-18, p. 16). The Swedish premiere was October 13 ("Mio min Mio", Svenska Dagbladet, 1987-10-12, p. 15), which would be the latest possible date for a wide release, if it hadn't already happened in the Soviet Union by that time. Expressen, for example, mentions it as his first role here, but that's obviously discounting his minor role in Anastasia. /Julle (talk) 07:23, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

Premieres and releases don't go hand in hand. There are plenty of films that premiere months or even years before their release. We must not suggest unverifiable release dates without proper sourcing. That aside, Expressen says Bale's first film role was in Mio; it does not say it was his first starring role. Again, he could also have been cast in Empire first, or he could have filmed it first. Whatever the case is, it meets WP:DUE to follow the three sources that say he had his first starring role in that film. KyleJoan^talk 08:09, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

Some further digging makes clear that October 1987 was the Swedish release (and makes clear that you were right in correcting me for jumping to conclusions: it's a couple of months before Empire, not almost half a year as I first stated based on the premiere in Moscow). Svenska Dagbladet 1987-10-16 p. 43 mentions it being available in 23 different cities and towns, which is a fairly wide release in Sweden. The same newspaper had the review aimed at the general, cinema-going, public the same day, p. 19.

"Starring" doesn't have a good equivalent in the Scandinavian languages in this context so a Swedish source wouldn't use a phrase like that, but English sources about the movie mentions him as starring in it, see The Encyclopedia of Fantasy entry on the film, for example. Other sources also mention it as his first role of note, e.g. Fra Astrid Lindgren-debut til Batman-suksess (Verdens Gang, August 2, 2012), "DiCaprio stal min drömroll" (Aftonbladet, May 24 1998, quote: "Christian Bale started as a child actor. First in Swedish "Mio in the Land of Faraway", then in Spielberg's "Empire of the Sun"). My point here isn't to remove all mentions of Empire (clearly the most important role of these two by far for his career, the one that made him known to a wider public), but since it was released before Empire and there are several sources pointing to it as his first major ("starring"), I think it merits at least passing mention. I've tried to add it without taking anything away from the fact that Empire was his true breakthrough role; I'd appreciate others reviewing the addition. /Julle (talk) 09:53, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

Based on the sources in the article and this discussion, Mio should not be in the lede, especially in the same sentence as Empire. While we have a few pointing to Bale's role in Mio as his first, we have a plethora highlighting Empire as the film that launched his career, and that's what the lede conveys. There are more extensively documented projects in the body that aren't in the lede at all, so why would a bare mention in the body warrant a bare mention in the lede? I've copy-edited and moved the sentence in the "career" section for flow. It's also simpler to cite the book. KyleJoan^talk 11:20, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

Because the lede mentions it has his first starring role, and we have a number of sources claiming something else. I'll try to lay out my arguments here and end with the conclusions I want to draw from them, and we'll see if that helps us understand each other.

• We have several sources claiming that Empire was his first starring or major role (mentioned here: BBC America, TIME, The Telegraph, more would be easy to find).
• We have several sources claiming that Mio was his first major role (mentioned here: Aftonbladet, Expressen, VG, more would be easy to find).
• We know that the specific word "starring" applies, because while Scandinavian media wouldn't use the word (because language), it is easy to find a good, reliable English source that does (linked above).
• We know that Mio was released before Empire (October 1987 compared to December, per Svenska Dagbladet, accessible through w:sv:Mediearkivet).
• We know that Mio was filmed before Empire (in 1986, Tidningarnas Telegrambyrå January 28 1986 as well as 10 April 1986, accessible through w:sv:Mediearkivet, compared to spring 1987, according to the sources in the article about Empire).
• We don't know exactly when they were cast, but Bale is very unlikely to have been cast earlier in Empire than in Mio. According to Empire of the Sun (film) Bale was twelve years old when cast for the role. Filming for Mio started before Bale turned twelve (source: Tidningarnas Telegrambyrå January 28 1986, when Bale was still eleven years old).
• None of the sources quoted are great. Just looking at the publications, the Swedish and Norwegian sources are weaker, but TIME and BBC are just images with captions and a short list, not exactly investigative journalism. The Telegraph article is a "well-known actor releases new film and does a PR tour" kind of interview, similar to several Swedish articles mentioning Mio. None of these sources – including the ones I've dug up – are likely to have done serious research into this particular question, but accepted whatever was the received truth at the time and place, having little reason to question it.
• The English-speaking sources writing about an English-speaking actor are definitely more likely to have paid no attention a Swedish-Norwegian-Soviet film that left no big mark in the history of cinema. This is speculation, but for context.
• The Swedish and Norwegian sources, on the other hand, are more likely to revel in the fact that Bale – as they claim – started his career in a forgettable Scandinavian production, blinding them to facts that would contradict this. This is speculation, but for context.

So my argument is this: while we have numerous sources claiming that Empire was Bale's first starring role, we have a number of sources claiming something else. These sources are backed up by context, what we know about the dates of Mio compared to Empire.

Thus, the reason to include Mio in the lede in passing is that there's a good argument to make that it might have been Bale's first starring role. It's chronologically important.

Second, since the biography is written chronologically, Mio should be before, not after, Empire. The current wording makes it sound like Mio came out after Empire.

Empire is by far the most important of the films, and the one that had lasting impact on Bale's career. It should not get less space in the article than currently, while Mio should get much less. But the Swedish and Norwegian sources are, especially in context, enough that is not undue weight to include Mio not only as something he did the same year as Empire, but to mention as his first major role or (more realistically) one of his first major roles. (Edit: Some of these references are new. I realise made it sound like they had appeared in the conversation before. That was not my intention.) /Julle (talk) 12:25, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

This article underwent a thorough source review as a featured article candidate, so every source cited has been endorsed as a high-quality, reliable source; the Swedish and Norwegian sources, on the other hand, have not. Any implication about a source not being great due to the content's formatting is a little strange. You're essentially saying X source (e.g., Time) is suitable for use when they publish in certain formats (e.g., maybe reviews and profiles) but not others (i.e., lists and interviews).

The article isn't written chronologically. It uses chronology to establish a flow for readability (e.g., the early life section encompasses events that came after those in the career section). Both Empire and Mio saw 1987 releases. The article does not say which one came out first.

Proposing inclusion because Mio might have been Bale's first starring role isn't a strong argument, as it incorporates speculation while remaining a weight issue. The Swedish and Norwegian sources being weaker is precisely why they must not be assigned equal weight. I also don't see what the chronology has to do with this. Anastasia happened before both films, and that's not in the lede. Bale's first acting role in a commercial is not in the lede. The Flowers of War, the highest-grossing Chinese film in 2011, is not in the lede. Not everything is suitable for the lede. KyleJoan^talk 13:37, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

No, what I'm saying is that the kind of article they are means the journalists are very unlikely to have done any significant research that would question received truths. That is not about formatting, it's about how journalism and newspapers work. All big general news sources – including BBC and TIME – do rewrites and quick lists in addition to significant investigative journalism.

Which part of Mio do you consider to be speculative? It is very clear that it was filmed and released before Empire. The sources for the dates are impeccable: it should say which came out first, since it is claiming that Empire was his first starring role. If that would be confusing if we mention the dates for both Mio and Empire, then something is wrong. I'm happy to have someone else who have access to w:sv:Mediearkivet look at them, of course, for further review. The fact that it once went through a FA process hardly means we can't take new information into account. /Julle (talk) 13:53, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

Or, to rephrase it: Do I understand you correctly if you say that the information that was in the article before I edited has been reviewed, and the the one I want to add has not been, and that this is important? In that case: How would you prefer we review the new information? /Julle (talk) 13:54, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

I think I finally understand what you're proposing. Sorry, but even if we change Bale had his first starring role at age 13 to Bale had his breakthrough role at age 13, Mio still would not be lede-worthy.

To answer your last question, I'm not sure. But even without your investigative journalism-related qualm, the sources you presented are still weaker, no? KyleJoan^talk 14:10, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

Add: I've made the change, so now the issue is simply that you believe Mio should be in the lede because it might have been Bale's first starring role. Is that correct? KyleJoan^talk 14:17, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for genuinely trying to understand my point, even if I fear we talk past each other here. But I think we're getting close!

I'm happy with the current lede! Thank you. A good solution. I was less concerned about Mio having to have a place there (it is, indeed, not a significant role, in any other sense then when it happened) than I was with our claiming that Empire was his first starring role without mentioning Mio, when several sources mentions Mio as the first starring role and this is backed up by when they were filmed and released.

Source review:

• I consider the sources for Mio being earlier than Empire as very strong, unless the dates in the article on Empire are mistaken. These are contemporary reviews and news articles about the release and filming wrapping up in the various locations, from respectable news sources. There's absolutely no reason why they would be wrong. I consider this to be important contextualisation.
• On their own, I would not consider the Aftonbladet, Expressen and Verdens Gang articles to be truly compelling – though when three of the biggest newspapers in Scandinavia claim something, I would want to pay attention. But I could also easily see someone claiming something once, without really having checked the dates, and the others just repeating it. But context is important when judging sources, so the fact that Mio was released earlier does lend them credibility.

I just wanted the chronology to be correct and that we don't make claims about first starring roles without seriously considering the fact that there are sources claiming otherwise. I'd like to change "In the same year, he starred" to "Earlier in the same year, he starred", which I think is merited looking at the sources. With that small change (and a clarification that it was the fame from Empire that led him to be bullied, the sentence about Mio being placed in between weakened that link) I would be satisfied. Would that be acceptable? /Julle (talk) 14:40, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

I wish you would have just said that from the beginning *laughing crying emoji*! I think your latest proposed change would work great. Please be sure to cite the Svenska Dagbladet piece to verify Mio's release timeframe. Phew! KyleJoan^talk 14:50, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

Haha, sorry! Sometimes you need the resistance of someone arguing against you to figure the best solution for your concerns. I'll fix it a little bit later when I'm logged in to the university system again. /Julle (talk) 15:13, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

Added now. I hope everyone's OK with this solution. /Julle (talk) 15:37, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

Looks great! Cheers! KyleJoan^talk 16:13, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 August 2021

Christian Bale listed as an English actor is infact Welsh as denoted by his place of birth, Haverfordwest, being in Wales, not England.

Thank you 2.96.91.64 (talk) 20:01, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. See previous discussions (above and in the archives) where this is discussed repeatedly. ‑‑ElHef (Meep?) 20:11, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

Why are the Welsh trying to claim a “sassenach” invader? Genuinely curious. 2A00:23C4:3E08:4000:E524:ADA1:8379:9EF6 (talk) 23:42, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

Should the Screen Actors Guild Awards be included?

Should the Screen Actors Guild Awards be included, both in the BLP and lead? They aren't mentioned anywhere in the article, despite Bale receiving two awards from eight nominations. I believe that's worthy of inclusion, as they are considered to be one of the most significant award shows in the acting and film industry. Some might argue against that, but I think these sources support the fact that many see them that way: [11][12][13][14][15]. The latter two may not be as reliable compared to the others, though they might still serve as reference. Film Enthusiast (talk) 21:26, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

No per WP:NOTEVERYTHING. Those sources say the SAG Awards warrant attention because they could predict (and at times have predicted) who and what would win the Academy Awards during those years. Other reliable sources have said the same about the Critics' Choice Awards.[16][17][18] That aside, there have been comparisons about the Academy Awards being synonymous with the BAFTA Film Awards,[19][20][21] so one could argue that his BAFTA nominations should be included as well. I could see the argument to switch out some of his Golden Globe nominations for his BAFTA ones, but the SAG and Critics' Choice nominations should not be included. KyleJoan^talk 23:07, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

I understand where you're coming from, but the fact that they can (sometimes) predict Oscar outcomes, doesn't make them any less significant nor does it minimize their importance. They're not prominent because of their Oscar-link, but because the awards are chosen by the other actors, that is, other people knowledgeable in the field of acting. As this source states, "Why are the SAGs such an honor for actors? . . . These are the only accolades for actors chosen entirely by an actors’ peers in SAG-AFTRA." It also explains the correlation between the SAG and the Oscars, "The Academy is comprised of people throughout the entertainment industry, from makeup artists to actors. So, many SAG voters are also members of the Academy" and "when it comes to the Oscars, only actors vote for awards in acting categories. So, the same people voting for Best Actor in the Academy Awards are also the people voting for Best Actor in SAGs." When investigating if this is accurate, one can find that the official SAG rules and regulations support what is stated [22]. As for WP:NOTEVERYTHING, it's true that information should not be included in this encyclopedia solely because it is true or useful, but it does state to summarize, and assuming key or notable points should be included, the SAG awards deserve to be included in that summary, as actors see it as an honor. I think WP:NOTEVERYTHING would be much more applicable if one were wanting to include every. single. award. that has been won for a single performance. But the addition of the SAG awards should be an exception of receiving that inclusion. Film Enthusiast (talk) 23:00, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

Refinery29 is a low-quality source, so I'm not going to address what it says. Your theory about actors' view of the SAG Awards suggests we should consider their view of the Golden Globes as well. While almost every reliable source in existence deems the Golden Globes prominent, the awards body only consisted of white voters for a long time. Tom Cruise, an actor, returned his Golden Globes due to this issue, so should his wins and noms be removed from his article? More importantly, would it be appropriate to remove Golden Globe wins and noms from BLPs whose subjects have criticized that awards body? No and no. We don't assign weight based on what subjects see [...] as an honor. We go by the sources. KyleJoan^talk 00:10, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

There's a big difference between the Golden Globes and the SAGs though. The former is made up of the HFPA, an organization that consists of journalists and photographers, the latter is made up of SAG-AFTRA members, who are basically only actors. Either way, I'm not sure how the Golden Globes relate to this. And as for sources, I had provided some before that I believe offer strong support regarding its prominence. Film Enthusiast (talk) 00:59, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

You said the SAG Awards should be included because actors see it as an honor, so per that logic, the Golden Globes should be excluded because actors don't see it as an honor, no? And I've provided sources that say the Critics' Choice Awards are prominent in the same way that the SAG Awards are, but I don't see you proposing to include them. KyleJoan^talk 01:08, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

Never said the Golden Globes should be excluded or aren't an honor, nor did I suggest that at all. One actor doesn't speak for everyone. Because regardless of its controversy, it's significance still stands. And since you point it out, I wouldn't object to including the Critics' Choice either, though I really don't have a solid opinion regarding those. Film Enthusiast (talk) 01:30, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

Rather than reiterate my initial response and keep talking in circles, I'll simply say I disagree. Cheers! KyleJoan^talk 01:38, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

Response to third opinion request:

I have taken a third opinion request for this page and am currently reviewing the issues. I shall replace this text shortly with my reply. I have made no previous edits on Christian Bale and have no known association with the editors involved in this discussion. The third opinion process is informal and I have no special powers or authority apart from being a fresh pair of eyes. Firefangledfeathers (talk) 18:05, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

I plan to re-read the above discussion, skim the sources provided, look at the FA version and review discussion, and compare with some similar high-quality articles. If there's discussion happening elsewhere (user talk pages, noticeboards, WikiProjects), please let me know. Firefangledfeathers (talk) 18:05, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

@Film Enthusiast and KyleJoan: we should leave the SAG awards out of the lead and briefly mention them in the body. This is essentially a debate about what is WP:DUE, with appropriate weight being the test mentioned in WP:NOTEVERYTHING. DUE debates are messy and challenging. My opinion here is susceptible to a rigorous source review showing that mention of SAG is due based on Bale's coverage. My non-rigorous review showed what we'd all expect: sources are very likely to mention his Oscars, occasionally mention his Golden Globes, and less frequently mention SAGs.

Given that this article already has a length problem and that it was recently promoted to featured article, I don't believe there's much room to mention Hollywood's #3 award, but a line like "Bale has also won two Screen Actor's Guild awards, having been ominated eight times" is not too wordy an addition.

Comparison with other actor FAs yields a mixed bag. I looked for actors with a low number of Academy Awards and at least one Globe and SAG award.

• Anne Hathaway: Oscar+Globe in lead, SAG in body
• Phillip Seymour Hoffman: Oscar in lead, Globe+SAG in body
• Jennifer Lawrence: Oscar+Globe in lead, SAG in body
• Julianne Moore: Oscar+Globe+SAG in lead (among others)
• Emma Stone: Oscar+Globe+SAG in lead (among others)
• Kate Winslet: Oscar+Globe+SAG in lead (among others)
• Reese Witherspoon: Oscar+Globe+SAG in lead (among others)

This is essentially a What about other content? argument: generally frowned upon, but reasonable when comparing to high-quality articles in the same topic area. I think the evidence supports inclusion of SAG award info somewhere and is mostly neutral on whether it belongs in the lead. I hope inclusion in the body but not the lead is a compromise both parties can be satisfied with, knowing that it's likely close to the right amount of appropriate weight and is suitably matched to similar high-quality articles.

I have this page on my watchlist for at least the next 90 days, and I'll be happy to field clarification or follow-up questions. Firefangledfeathers (talk) 04:05, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for the third opinion, Firefangledfeathers. It seems fair to insert a brief line about Bale's SAG Awards statistics in the body, so I've included a version of your suggested phrasing with this edit. I hope this suffices. KyleJoan^talk 05:42, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the solid work, and I hope so as well. A belated congrats on the FA promotion! Firefangledfeathers (talk) 05:46, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

That's very kind of you. Thank you again! KyleJoan^talk 05:56, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 September 2021

Surely he is Welsh not English 2A02:C7F:2281:7300:3548:62A5:F3D6:F7C9 (talk) 18:53, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. Per previous discussion (see archives). — LauritzT (talk) 19:24, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

Inaccurate nationatily

Everything referring to British people Wikipedia also puts down nationality as English. Take Christian Bale, for instance. He is Welsh British. To say a Welsh, Northern Irish or Scottish person that their nationality is English it’s offensive. England isn’t a country. It’s a region or province with a country, United Kingdom or Great Britain. 213.22.2.223 (talk) 13:53, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

Incorrect. "The United Kingdom consists of four countries: England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland." Christian Bale was born in Wales but his parents were English and he considers himself English as is stated in the article and sourced accordingly. That's the reason for "English" in this article, not the fact that people somehow confuse British and English. After all, other people are correctly identified in a similar manner, such as Sean Connery as Scottish, Anthony Hopkins as Welsh or Adam Carroll as Northern Irish. Regards SoWhy 14:09, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 December 2021

Change ‘English actor’ to either ‘welsh actor’ or ‘British actor’

He was born in Wales therefore he is either British or Welsh, not English 2A00:23C5:DB80:AA01:D099:1E38:C6FD:12AF (talk) 21:20, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

^ He is English, not Welsh. He even says it himself here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muo7zu3airQ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7F:EB10:9900:F0BC:B54E:3490:C105 (talk) 00:11, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: per previous discussions on this page. (See repeated discussions above and in the archives.) Feel free to start an RFC or something if you'd like to try to establish a consensus to change this, but an edit request isn't going to do it. ‑‑ElHef (Meep?) 21:40, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 31 January 2022

Change "English actor" to "British actor" or "Welsh actor" as he is not English. 2603:8081:1C00:3500:451D:D59B:EFAE:3AF1 (talk) 03:13, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. see above Cannolis (talk) 03:27, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

Christian bale is NOT English he’s Welsh

Christian bale is NOT English he’s Welsh 2A00:23C4:AE8E:F101:C8FA:1BFA:980A:B3D2 (talk) 22:06, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

No it is Wales If you wont put Wales put british Huumas (talk) 23:18, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

This has been dealt with extensively in the talk page archives. The sources say he's English. He says he's English. Wikipedia reflects the sources. - MrOllie (talk) 23:24, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

But wasn't he born in Wales? That'd make him 'Welsh-born English' for want of a better term? 86.140.72.113 (talk) 13:17, 26 February 2022 (UTC)

No. Read the chat on his and you'll understand.Halbared (talk) 13:32, 26 February 2022 (UTC)

Isn't that like me saying, "Oh, I identify as Indonesian, even though I was born in Scotland." and just expecting everyone to accept it? No, I would expect people to rationally describe me as Scottish-born and perhaps Scottish-born Indonesian at a push. 86.140.72.113 (talk) 16:11, 26 February 2022 (UTC)

It is not the same, read the many discussions on this in the archive, it covers Bale's ethnicity.Halbared (talk) 23:20, 26 February 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 March 2022

The nationality is Welsh. Not an English actor. 82.43.52.220 (talk) 22:21, 17 March 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: see above Cannolis (talk) 22:37, 17 March 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 April 2022

Christian Bale is a British actor. Baldmama (talk) 16:46, 13 April 2022 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. This is a whole thing, so get consensus before requesting any changes. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 16:52, 13 April 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 April 2022

Christian Charles Phillip Bale is a British-American actor. (Since he is a U.S. citizen, he is British-American.) 2601:184:300:830:4D91:34:AC45:EF0C (talk) 01:52, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 11:41, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 April 2022

it says Christian bale is an English actor but he was born in Wales so it should say Welsh actor. 2A02:C7E:AEE:3800:5032:DB1D:6E32:7D9E (talk) 22:58, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. See frequent discussions in archives. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 23:03, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

CB is not of Welsh descent so therefore he is not Welsh, regardless of where he was born. --2.24.139.190 (talk) 12:48, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 April 2022

English actor to Welsh actor or British actor 75.118.33.121 (talk) 16:40, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

N Not done and not likely to be done. See all the sections above. According to reliable sources, as well as Bale himself, he is a "foreign" born Englishman. Regards SoWhy 16:52, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

Welsh actor

He is a Welsh actor as he was born in Haverfordwest, Wales. 92.40.198.238 (talk) 22:54, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

Not born to Welsh parents and spent most of his childhood and adult years outside of Wales. He’s a Sassenach. 2A00:23C4:3E08:4000:2968:2F0F:4A0D:5839 (talk) 13:19, 27 April 2022 (UTC)

Christian Bale

He is from wales so he is welsh not an English actor but a Welsh actor 82.1.158.88 (talk) 08:51, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Rudyard Kipling was born in India but he isn't Indian.--2A00:23C4:3E08:4001:FD83:D26C:8219:5455 (talk) 16:26, 28 May 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 June 2022

He’s listed as English but was born in wales. So he’s welsh. 2A00:23C4:7F00:4201:983F:AB87:A8F7:49A5 (talk) 18:20, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

 Not done for now: This is actually a controversial edit, so you'll need to discuss first with other editors. Please open a new section here and start a discussion. See multiple discussions in archives. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 18:32, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

Christian Bale nationality.

He was born in Havetfordwest, so that makes him WELSH not English.🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 37.77.115.83 (talk) 10:26, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

Born to English parents, lived nearly all of his life outside of Wales and from a young age. Not Welsh, just like myself, and I'm nearly half Welsh by maternal descent.--SinoDevonian (talk) 16:35, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 June 2022

change 'English actor' to 'welsh actor' — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.69.100.200 (talk) 21:13, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

Bale was born to English parents, left Wales at a young age and self-IDs as English, though not to spite the Welsh I might add.--SinoDevonian (talk) 16:36, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 July 2022

Change English actor to Welsh actor 86.11.25.103 (talk) 21:21, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

 Not done It's important to read the article first before making requests. (CC) Tbhotch^™ 21:22, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Not quite right

• "Known to be very private about his personal life..." seems a little tautological for a Featured Article. It's not far off "known to be very private about his private life, as "personal" and "private" are pretty much synonyms in this context.

• "He has also been noted for portraying roles with an American accent." In an encyclopedia article, we only write about things that have been "noted"; we even have a policy about notability. So it seems superfluous to say what he has been noted for. We could add this form of words to almost every sentence in the bio, but that wouldn't be right. As a general reader, this particular factoid frankly doesn't seem all that surprising in an actor. Are there sources to say that he does an American accent particularly well for an Englishman? That might be a good way out of this. But honestly, if all we have is that he has portrayed characters who speak in an accent other than the actor's native one, this must apply to almost every actor who has ever lived.

I tried to improve these infelicities, but was reverted with the edit summary "(partially reverted User:Wubslin's changes; being private and valuing privacy are not the same; this also pertains to his personal life in particular, so it's inappropriate to generally write what he values; it's important to specify that sources *note* the American accent aspect of his roles rather than just say he has done the accent; the same applies to his versatility (i.e., we wouldn't neutrally write "Bale is a versatile actor"))"

In a spirit of collegiality, I thought we could discuss this here. Any thoughts? Wubslin (talk) 15:24, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

"Personal" and "private" are not synonyms here. "Known to be very reserved about his intimate life" would denote a similar context but take away any synonymous nature. We also wouldn't write "known to be very secretive about his secretive life".

Yes, we only write about things that have been "noted", but how the things are noted in sources is important as well. Writing on Wikipedia that a subject is noted for being something is entirely different from neutrally saying a subject is said thing (e.g., The Dark Knight is the best superhero film ≠ it is regarded as such). I also disagree that the American accent is insignificant. Actors are also supposed to transform for their roles. Should Bale's transformations be removed? Surprising or not, sources have highlighted these aspects for them to warrant inclusion. KyleJoan^talk 16:06, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

I think the thing he did with his weight is genuinely interesting and worthy of note. I think the fact he has performed roles with different accents is entirely uninteresting and not worthy of note, even though it can be sourced. It's something almost literally every actor who has ever lived has done. We could possibly find sources that he has a UK driving licence, but we would not need to say that he was noted for being a licenced driver, as it's so extremely common. This is almost at that level, it seems to me. --Wubslin (talk) 16:13, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

The American accent is noted in sources as being more significant than simply something he does in character, so this goes back to how sources note things. The Atlantic lists him among those who "work least in their native accents", while The Independent highlights audiences' confusion toward how he does not speak in an American accent in real life. These aren't random articles mundanely mentioning that Bale speaks outside his native accent for his roles like all actors do. If sources highlight a UK license and stress its importance to Bale's status, then it would be appropriate to discuss including that. KyleJoan^talk 16:24, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

Two solid sources highlighting his use of an American accent seems worth a mention. I would prefer a more specific summary of the sources, something like Although Bale's natural speech uses a Cockney accent, in most of his roles he has portrayed American characters. (<---needs fine-tuning but you get the idea) Schazjmd (talk) 16:28, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

Yes, this is what I was driving at when I asked "Are there sources to say that he does an American accent particularly well for an Englishman?" We would be far better off saying something like "The Atlantic lists him among those who 'work least in their native accents'", than saying "He has also been noted for portraying roles with an American accent." in my opinion. --Wubslin (talk) 16:30, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

I thought the English actor who played Eddie in Stranger Things did a really good job with the American accent, but I'm unsure if the actor in question is known for doing American accents all the time, whereas Christian Bale is. Poorly-done and well-done accents are commented upon a lot so I think it is worth a passing mention as well.--SinoDevonian (talk) 16:33, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

Some good suggestions there. I just don't think we can run with "He has also been noted for portraying roles with an American accent." Something more explicit and descriptive would be better. --Wubslin (talk) 21:50, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

Totally. I think the fact he is British yet nearly always uses an indistinguishable American accent is noteworthy - it's an interesting facet of his acting. A compact description would also be in order as well.--SinoDevonian (talk) 16:41, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

I've gone with User:Schazjmd's suggestion for now. I think it looks a lot better. --Wubslin (talk) 17:38, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

And I see I have been reverted again. Is "During interviews to promote films in which he puts on an accent, Bale would continue speaking in the given accent." really important to keep? Again, I think if it is it needs to be more carefully worded. Do we mean that he always or usually does this? That's what "would" implies. --Wubslin (talk) 18:36, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

With all due respect, the suggestion violates WP:SYNTH because neither source fully supports the material (i.e., The Independent supports "Cockney", The Atlantic supports "American characters"), with "although" inappropriately relating the two parts. Not only is "American characters" different from "American accents", but The Atlantic article's statistics are dated since Bale has appeared in nine more films since its 2013 publication.

If the intention at this time is to correlate and contrast his natural and popular accents, the article already does that with He has also been noted for portraying roles with an American accent. In real life, Bale speaks in an "emphatic, non-posh" English accent. A semicolon to replace the middle period would clarify the correlation without the SYNTH issue. The quoted description is also more neutral since "Cockney" requires an understanding of what the word means as a noun. Expanding on the existing material (e.g., adding the quality of the accent's execution or the volume in which it is used) is a different point–I believe this requires more sources. The only appropriate expansion with the two sources is adding "work least in their native accents", but that would make the removal of "American accent" even more inappropriate.

I'm not understanding what "would" implies. It doesn't imply anything. Digital Spy supports that material. Even Bale's own words support what is written, which details how he publicly distances his personal qualities from those of this characters. Why do we need to specify how often he does it? KyleJoan^talk 19:00, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for the due respect, that is appreciated. I think we have consensus that "He has also been noted for portraying roles with an American accent." is poor and need to be improved. What's your suggestion? --Wubslin (talk) 19:13, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

When has the discussion been about that phrase being poor? I thought your issue was with the noted American accent use being uninteresting and not worthy of note? That aside, that's not my take on the consensus. My observation of it tells me that the accent use itself is due and appropriate regardless of how we could change and expand on the material. I understand you don't think we can run with just that phrase, but I don't see anyone else saying it should be removed unless we make it less uninteresting. My suggestions are to add a semicolon to tie the paragraph together and/or "work least in their native accents" based on your earlier point. On how to make the mere accent use more interesting, I have none. KyleJoan^talk 19:56, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

Mere use of accents isn't interesting and cannot be made so. I am not even an actor and can easily imitate various foreign accents. (My South African one is the best.) This isn't noteworthy though, as it is something most adults can do. It is even less noteworthy in an actor, as this is essentially what they do for a living. Remarking that a professional actor can "do" accents other than their own, is almost like remarking that a professional driver is able to parallel park. I think "He has also been noted for portraying roles with an American accent" is in this vein. When we discussed this above, User:Schazjmd said: I would prefer a more specific summary of the sources, something like "Although Bale's natural speech uses a Cockney accent, in most of his roles he has portrayed American characters. and SinoDevonian said I think the fact he is British yet nearly always uses an indistinguishable American accent is noteworthy - it's an interesting facet of his acting. A compact description would also be in order as well. I was trying to boldly implement User:Schazjmd's suggestion. Reverting is fine, but I would like to see your improved version. Again, I just don't think the present wording cuts it. --Wubslin (talk) 23:51, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

By your improved version, do you mean a revision based on the two changes I suggested? Here's what I had in mind: Bale has also been noted for portraying roles with an American accent, with The Atlantic's Joe Reid listing him among those who "work least in their native accents"; in real life, Bale speaks in an "emphatic, non-posh" English accent. If this still does not cut it, I'll refer you to WP:FAOWN, which I see Gog the Mild has explained in a more cohesive way than I could. Feel free to open a WP:RfC, and if a consensus ever finds that the mere accent use does not warrant inclusion on its own, then I'll support that consensus. Thanks! KyleJoan^talk 02:52, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

That sounds like an improvement all right. Yes, I'm familiar with FAOWN. It says "Editors are asked to take particular care when editing a Featured article; it is considerate to discuss significant changes of text or images on the talk page first." This article is far from perfect, and discussing ways to make it better here in article talk is very much what FAOWN recommends. We wouldn't need an RfC to see that mere accent use in an actor on its own doesn't warrant inclusion. Now that we have cleared that up, can we next look at "During interviews to promote films in which he puts on an accent, Bale would continue speaking in the given accent"? --Wubslin (talk) 11:32, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

I've made the change. Now we can discuss "interviews". What is the issue with that material and what changes does it require?

Add: The FA nomination and this discussion tell us that noted mere accent use ... on its own specifically regarding Bale does warrant inclusion, so one user with a general view of what actors' BLPs should and should not include does not change this. Since the discussion has gotten repetitive and convoluted, it's important to state that the new phrasing of the material does not mean there is a consensus that the original phrasing was inappropriate. Now onto the next dispute. KyleJoan^talk 12:27, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Thank you, that is much better. As regards "the next dispute" (I would prefer to consider it as a civilised discussion about how to tweak this already-excellent article to make it even better, but there you go), the source has

Christian is nothing if not thoughtful to his viewing public. If he puts on an accent in a film, he'll keep it going in all promotional interviews so the audience doesn't become confused.

which we have summarised as

During interviews to promote films in which he puts on an accent, Bale would continue speaking in the given accent.

It's the "would" that I find problematic. It can mean past tense ("when I was a kid, I would often steal apples"), conditional ("if there was another election, I would vote Green"), used in auxiliary function to express custom or habitual action ("we would meet often for lunch"), and several others which are not relevant. There is nothing grammatically wrong with using it like this, but its profusion of other meanings may create tension or even confusion in the readers mind. Do we mean, "he would do this, unless xyz"? Do we mean "he would do this, but then he stopped"? For this reason, a simpler choice of words is to be preferred, as the source has done. I suggest

During interviews to promote his films, Bale speaks in the same accent he uses in the film.

It's shorter, clearer and less potentially ambiguous. Could you live with that? --Wubslin (talk) 19:48, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

That suggested phrasing inappropriately broadens the context. It reads as if we're documenting accents that he puts on and grouping them with his natural accent to generalize and synthesize that there is always an accent involved in his films and interviews. True or not, the source does not support that insinuation. If "would" is the issue, why not just write During interviews to promote films in which he puts on an accent, Bale continues to speak in the given accent? KyleJoan^talk 04:15, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

I've read that Bale's accent permanently changed when he had his teeth done for American Psycho. Bale also 'keeps/maintain' some accents for regular use, which can irritate his partner/family. Any commentary on his accent, or use thereof needs. What is put, needs good sources.Halbared (talk) 06:39, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

Linking Rowan Atkinson

@KyleJoan: I've re-linked Rowan Atkinson in the article, undoing your edit. While Atkinson is linked once before in the article, there is no rule restricting terms to one link per article, and this is not only Atkinson's first link in the section, but also a long way down the article from the previous mention, which I think justifies the link. The fact that Bale was inflenced by Atkinson in quite remarkable, and I think deserves this prominence. — The Anome (talk) 12:33, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

MOS:DL says one link is sufficient. The first and second mentions' apartness as a rationale is tricky because it is also applicable to several other instances (e.g., David Bale, Little Women (1994 film)). I don't see this as a strong enough reason to bypass DL since we have the "Find" command, and I don't believe the material about Atkinson's influence suffers in any way without the link. KyleJoan^talk 12:45, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

I agree with the linking. MOS:DL says "it may be repeated if helpful for readers", and I think this is a good example of when that's the case. Chaheel Riens (talk) 12:59, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Would repeat links also be appropriate in the instances I presented? Furthermore, which films in the "acting credits" section would be considered distant enough from its initial mention to warrant linking for a second time? KyleJoan^talk 13:07, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

I'm not playing that game. The question here is about Rowan Atkinson and I'm not indulging in "If X is ok, is Y?" If you think your links are suitable, be bold and add them in to see if somebody disagrees and removes them - then discuss to reach agreement. Chaheel Riens (talk) 14:25, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

But you never explained how or why repeatedly linking Atkinson would be helpful. I was trying to understand the standard that would make duplicate links appropriate in this article's body so we could apply it accordingly. KyleJoan^talk 14:41, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

The two mentions of Atkinson are separated by a wall of article text, but also deal with different contexts of Bale himself, meaning that it's likely a reader will not read or see the link for one of the other instances. Chaheel Riens (talk) 17:27, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

I noticed this when I was copyediting the article. I think strict MoS adherence would give us one link, and I wondered about even removing the first name and just calling him "Atkinson" the second time, but I left it alone in the end. I think this might be argued as a valid exception to the guidance of the MoS and we could justify two links. The MoS is our servant, not our master. Having a second link may help the reader and the guidance is to prevent intrusive degrees of linking from diminishing the value of each link. --Wubslin (talk) 19:29, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Given the discussion above, would anyone object to my reinstating the link? — The Anome (talk) 10:49, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

While I'm still waiting to hear whether the rationale behind this one instance of repeated linking should be applicable to the rest of the article, it appears there is a local consensus for what you're proposing, so I support that outcome. KyleJoan^talk 11:12, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

Strict MOS adherence calls for "but it may be repeated if helpful for readers". So participants in this discussion need only make the case that it is helpful for the readers. If consensus on that is reached, then the additional link will be in compliance with MOS. Largoplazo (talk) 17:29, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

(Coming from invite here) I think the repeat link is fine here. The MoS isn't strict on this for a reason. Readers don't read top-to-bottom, so the link is likely to be useful, and even if it's not, it's hardly a distraction or annoyance. Let's not cling to a rigid rule that's stricter than the MoS itself. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 23:29, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

Who determines that a link is unnecessary? What one person feels is common is not necessarily the good for all. Also style dictates that hyperlinks are the what makes Wikipedia cohesive. l

One person should not remove all hyperlinks that they deem unnecessary when said links provide definition. Not all users have the knowledge that a Wikipedia editor does. Further, this undermines others efforts and expertise that they provide for free. 76.189.250.230 (talk) 17:51, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia practices are guided by Guidelines, including the WP:Manual of Style. The guidelines on what we should or shouldn't do with respect to links are at Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Linking. The only discussions with respect to links that are appropriate here are discussions about applying those guidelines to this article. The answer to "Who determines" is "users who reached the consensuses that are reflected in the guidelines, followed by users who reach consensuses about their application in specific cases". However, unless one expects disagreement, one normally goes ahead an edits in accordance with one's understanding of the guidelines. Then, if there's disagreement, then discussion is held. Largoplazo (talk) 18:08, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

Agree with Largoplazo. Link only when it would be useful for a significant proportion of editors. The more we link, the more that system is diluted: keep it meaningful. Also, a sea of patchy b blue is hard to read and looks weird. Tony (talk) 08:23, 10 July 2022 (UTC)

For example, why was "Pembrokeshire" linked? Really? The article is pretty heavily linked, though I concede that many of the links are reasonable. It could do with an audit of much-repeated and/or closely positioned links. Tony (talk) 05:54, 12 July 2022 (UTC)

Christian Bale is Welsh

Change it to welsh or wikipedia is lying. How isnt he welsh, he was born there. I can tell you how he aint english. Its because he was born in wales 90.193.74.140 (talk) 10:45, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

Whether one is Welsh isn't determined by whether one was personally born in Wales. It's an ethnicity, not a jus soli citizenship. Largoplazo (talk) 12:17, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

English

He is NOT English. He is WELSH!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 150.143.33.146 (talk) 23:15, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

I was going to write this too, he's Welsh. I would edit it myself but someone will just put it back since I'm not a regular contributor- would someone in the wiki hegemony please fix? 68.197.246.143 (talk) 02:13, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

The article explains it at Early life. (CC) Tbhotch^™ 02:20, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Why not just use "British" to avoid the confusion? British is a factual statement (UK citizenship), Welsh as born there, over English as English family and was raised there, are in effect opinions that can only be given by Bale himself. Grunners (talk) 11:50, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Bale self-identifies as English, which means the term should be given weight per WP:UKNATIONALS and MOS:IDENTITY. KyleJoan^talk 12:59, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

That aside, the people insisting he’s Welsh are clearly not reading the early life section which states he was born to English parents and grew up in England… putting more emphasis on birth circumstances than actually cultural upbringing is a bane of many individuals existence. SinoDevonian (talk) 15:17, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Still, putting ‘British’ would solve the discussion in every way. I vote for that too. Dr. F.C. Turner (talk) 20:06, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

It isn't a vote though. We go with the sources, which call him English. --Wubslin (talk) 20:15, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Since when can someone 'self identify' their nationality? That's just ridiculous. He was born in Wales as the page correctly states, therefore he is Welsh. Anything else is just factually wrong. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.103.118.164 (talk) 21:03, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

So someone who was born in England to Welsh parents and was in turn raised in Wales isn't Welsh? --SinoDevonian (talk) 21:18, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 August 2022

Please change "Patrick Bateman, a stock market investor" to "Patrick Bateman, an investment banker" in the first sentence of Career, Rise to prominence and commercial decline (2000–2004).

Sources: or the business card shown in the movie (lists title as "Vice President" at Pierce & Pierce, Mergers & Acquisitions). Hurricane394 (talk) 19:22, 18 August 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: Aren't both of these correct? Aaron Liu (talk) 22:18, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

I don't think so, I understand these terms differently. "Stock market investor" could mean anyone who invests in capital stock, it's not necessarily about someone who works at a bank or even really a job description. He is not implied to do that in the film as far as I can see.

Investment banker is a very broad term, encompassing among other things, people who work in Mergers & Acquisitions (like Bateman and his colleagues) which involves a wide range of advisory/consulting services for client businesses who want to conduct any kind of transaction (could involve stocks but doesn't have to). "Investment banker" would also be more consistent with American_Psycho_(film)#Cast and American_Psycho_(film)#Plot. It could even be a broader term, like "young, wealthy finance professional" since the film is about criticising yuppie culture and the specifics of his work are never really adressed or important to the film beyond showing "Mergers and Acquisitions" on his card. Hurricane394 (talk) 09:12, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

Done. I copied the description from the lede of American Psycho (film). Investment banker is more specific than stock market investor which is very general. --Mvqr (talk) 10:50, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

References

Incorrect nationality

The page says that Christian Bale is English when he was born in Wales 80.2.28.16 (talk) 23:27, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

One's ethnicity or cultural upbringing or identity (there is no Welsh citizenship, by birth or otherwise) doesn't depend on where one's mother happened to be the day she gave birth. And he's quoted right there in the article stating that he identifies as English. Largoplazo (talk) 23:49, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

He's not actually quoted in that article. It's a quote of a quote, and the primary source is not identified anywhere. 86.128.27.21 (talk) 16:59, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 August 2022

Change “English actor” to “welsh actor”…he was born in wales not England. 75.49.194.231 (talk) 01:43, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. 💜  melecie  talk - 01:55, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

One's nationality or ethnicity isn't defined by where one's mother happens to be the day she gives birth. The exception is where the law of that place grants legal citizenship on that account, but Wales isn't a sovereign state that grants citizenship. Largoplazo (talk) 09:29, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

If birthplace were used as the only indicator of nationality, Wales would lose Saunders Lewis, David Lloyd George, and Ceri Wyn Jones just off the top of my head. That last one is so Welsh he doesn't even have a page on English Wikipedia, but he was born in Welwyn Garden City. Nicdafis (talk) 18:44, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 September 2022

Change English actor to Welsh actor. He was born in Wales which means he’s a Welsh actor regardless of upbringing. 2A00:23C5:EA04:8A01:6D1C:652C:3E89:6050 (talk) 19:22, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. See the similar previous requests. RudolfRed (talk) 19:29, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 October 2022

Christian Bale is listed ans an english actor but you also list him as being born in Haverfordwest in Wales, thay would make him Welsh, not English. Ease can this be updated 82.4.106.57 (talk) 21:00, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: See above. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 21:05, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

Nationality

Shouldn't it read, Christian bale is a Welsh actor rather than English considering he was born in Wales? 86.20.142.223 (talk) 17:26, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

He identifies as English and was born to English parents, and left Wales at a young age.--SinoDevonian (talk) 20:14, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 October 2022

It states that Christan Bale is an English actor despite being born in Haverford in Wales, so Christan Bale would be a Welsh actor. 109.170.188.29 (talk) 17:54, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

One isn't Welsh just because one's mother happened to be in Wales the day she gave birth. Largoplazo (talk) 18:05, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: Please read the extensive discussions in the archives. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 18:11, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

One thing is have noticed is that nearly every single edit request on this is formatted in the same way and uses very similar wording. Is there some weird trolling campaign going on?! I'm serious! None of Wikipedia's established Welsh editors want to claim Bale...--SinoDevonian (talk) 21:48, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

First time posting to request an edit, so apologies if this isn’t the right place/way. I think as Christian Bale was born in Wales he should be referred to as a British actor with his specific area of birth in Great Britain/United Kingdom, in this case Wales, listed in summary screen. Wikipedia refers to American actors, with their specific birthplace in the summary screen, why are we different for Christian Bale or any other British person listed on Wikipedia. Horle2612 (talk) 20:48, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

As per above - this has been discussed many times, but also the article itself quotes Bale: "I was born in Wales but I'm not Welsh—I'm English."

Chaheel Riens (talk) 20:53, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

You can also read the archives, that will help, as maybe would this page. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Nationality_of_people_from_the_United_Kingdom#Guide_to_finding_UK_nationality.Halbared (talk) 21:02, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

References

Talk page warning

Can we get a warning when this talk page is opened for editing, similar to the one at Talk:Turkey, reading "STOP: Are you about to ask for a change in Christian Bale's nationality from English to Welsh?" followed by an explanation that this has been asked a zillion times before and that it's been denied because he considers himself English and because one isn't Welsh just because one's non-Welsh mother happened to have been in Wales on the day she gave birth? Or something a little more sober than the language that I just used. Largoplazo (talk) 10:34, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

I would like to see this happen. What really makes me go "oh for the love of..." is the fact the edit requests over his nationality are virtually all mirror copies of one another! This page should be a "Wikipedia Meme"...--SinoDevonian (talk) 22:22, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

I concur! I think it's been at lest umpty-billion and one.Halbared (talk) 12:16, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

Welsh-born English-American actor

Is it possible to change from an English actor to Welsh-born English-American actor given that he was born in Wales to English parents and also has dual citizenship in United Kingdom (England) and United States? FireDragonValo (talk) 19:05, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

(i) Being born in Wales really doesn't mean all that much on terms of who he is and what he is famous for. It implies he was at some point in his life he was Welsh, which feels someonewhat deceptive, (ii) I have never understood the hostility towards people adding dual nationality. Unless it's someone like Boris Johnson [until 2016] where it was nothing but a 'technicality', acquiring the citizenship of another nation is usually a big deal thing. Especially in the US.--SinoDevonian (talk) 19:15, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

"Welsh-born English-American" contains multiple issues. United Kingdom and England aren't synonymous, and there's no such thing as English citizenship. It would be inappropriate to put together his American national status and English self-identification to cover every part of his identity without the support of sources. I've also not seen sources describe him as American. Why overcomplicate it? "English" meets MOS:ID. KyleJoan^talk 02:39, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

He is NOT English he is WELSH. England is a different country. This needs to be changed NatashaEllery (talk) 11:12, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

If you avail yourself of the archive page, as the edit page suggests before you post; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Christian_Bale/Archive_1#British/Welsh/English_in_the_lead, you'll see why your statement above is incorrect.Halbared (talk) 14:03, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

Velvet Goldmine

This has not been mentioned? 92.6.50.236 (talk) 15:43, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Yes, it is mentioned. Largoplazo (talk) 00:32, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Welsh actor not English

Born in Wales would surely make him a Welsh actor with English parents? 46.69.56.61 (talk) 21:08, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

A short answer:

• One's national identity isn't based on where one's mother happened to be the day one was born.
• One's citizenship may be based on where one's mother happened to be the day one was born, but there is no Welsh citizenship.
• Bale's parents are English and, as the article explains, he identifies himself as English.

A long answer: See Talk:Christian Bale/Archive 1#British/Welsh/English in the lead. Largoplazo (talk) 21:37, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

His personal choice is to be identified as English with English parents. Look at it this way, if they were on holiday in Spain and he was born there, you wouldn't call him Spanish.

I think a lot of Americans tend to identify the soil of one's birth with nationality, but it doesn't really work that way for a lot of countries, especially the UK. Alooulla (talk) 17:47, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 February 2023

it says he's an English actor, but being born in Wales. So surely he's a Welsh actor? 2A02:C7F:D876:2400:4C45:C2BD:4657:9A3D (talk) 21:49, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: see above Cannolis (talk) 22:31, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

"Phil Bale" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Phil Bale has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 March 27 § Phil Bale until a consensus is reached. Hey man im josh (talk) 16:50, 27 March 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 April 2023

Change English actor to welsh actor. Christian Bale is born in Wales 2A00:23C7:7C82:3601:8845:5A8A:FB87:13B7 (talk) 19:54, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: see archives Cannolis (talk) 19:59, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

Welsh Actor — Preceding unsigned comment added by Harrism918 (talk • contribs) 21:51, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

So Joe Calzaghe is English then?--SinoDevonian (talk) 17:39, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

Can we add this Youtube clip of Bale explicitly calling himself English as a source? - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muo7zu3airQ, hopefully will reduce the amount of Welsh users constantly trying to edit the page — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7C:5A16:3800:90C7:FF8C:5CE1:5FBE (talk) 13:38, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

Unnecessary. I just reused the existing ref we already had for a written source later in the article. Largoplazo (talk) 15:15, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 December 2023 (2)

Change Christian Charles Philip Bale (born 30 January 1974) is an English To

Christian Charles Philip Bale (born 30 January 1974) is a British 2A0A:EF40:1224:8701:A9D1:C68A:445F:9CA9 (talk) 14:59, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit semi-protected}} template. There has been numerous discussions over his nationality, and it seems that current consensus is fine with calling him English. Liu1126 (talk) 16:53, 6 December 2023 (UTC)