Talk:Chimayo, New Mexico

Town?

Town says the legal meaning of "town" in the U.S. varies from state to state. In some states a town must be incorporated, while in others it means any small community. I don't know what it is here in New Mexico, but someone needs to look it up. I might be able to, but not right away.

I also suggest that those interested discuss the matter here rather than (or as well as) in edit summaries. —JerryFriedman (Talk) 15:40, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

"Towns" in New Mexico are incorporated municipalities, which Chimayo isn't. In deleting references to it being a "town", I'm not denying that it's a community, but denying that it's incorporated. Nyttend (talk) 03:42, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

From a quick look, I suspect that "towns" here do have to be incorporated, but what's your source?

Anyway, I found several references to "unincorporated towns" in the statutes (search for the phrase here), so I put in "unincorporated town". However, I took out "Town of", as it appears to be part of the names of incorporated towns here [1], pending finding some official document with "Town of Chimayo". —JerryFriedman (Talk) 00:43, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

I'll get back to you: but notice the Census source here, and compare it with Factfinder data: towns are a type of incorporated places. Nyttend (talk) 01:00, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Chimayo is infact a town here are some reasons to belive, in the state of new mexico a village must consist of 300-2,500 Residences and a town must have 2,700-11,500 Residences and over 11,500 is an incorporated city, in new mexico villages or towns do NOT get incorporated only cities do. The nearest city to Chimayo is Espanola and Santa Fe those are incorporated cities they have over 11,000+. Chimayo was named a town in december of 2005 by Commissioner Elias Coriz and the Rio arriba county assessor Arthur Rodarte. Elias Coriz is the head commissioner of chimayo in other words he is basicly our mayor. A village or a town in the state of new mexico must have a commissioner however if you have 5,000+ Residences you must have a mayor and four council members, but in chiamyo's case they have a commissioner cuz they dont meet the population to have a mayor however chimayo has three council members one for the water, land & properties, safety and including the main commissioner. Chimayo's population was also an estimated 3,422 this was a non-census count by the Rio Arriba county planning & Zoning Commission in November of 2007. Thomasalazar (chat anyone?) 07:22 MT, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't know what Salazar means: Chapter 4, §3-1-2 of the New Mexico Statutes speaks of municipalities being "any incorporated city, town or village", and §3-1-3 says that any municipality may call itself a village, town, or city. I don't think that there's factual basis for his claims that there are size boundaries for the three. Nyttend (talk) 03:28, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

And furthermore, because it speaks of "incorporated...town", I think the point is that there are unincorporated towns in the general sense of the word, as noted above: an unincorporated community. I don't think we need to mention that it's an unincorporated community in the article, since a CDP is by default an unincorporated community. Furthermore, most definitely we shouldn't call it a "town" (without "unincorporated") in the article, since "town" is by default used to designate a municipality. Nyttend (talk) 03:31, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

I can't find the size limits Thomas Salazar mentions. However, Chapter 3, article 50, section 3 uses "city" for a municipality over 5,000.

I missed the part about declaring Chima a town. That's what I get for my one-man boycott of that stupid weekly paper. However, since Thomas gave a date, I can try to find it in either the Española public or the Northern New Mexico College library. Certainly such a declaration would be a good reason for using "town" in the article.

I'm confused about Elias Coriz. He's one of my county commissioners (Rio Arriba). Is he also a town commissioner of Chimayó? And isn't part of Chimayó in Santa Fe County? Including the Santuario? —JerryFriedman (Talk) 00:52, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

The basic problem with using "town" is that it's a legal designation. I don't care if the county commissioner says it's a town; if it's not incorporated, by law it's not a town. Local officials in my hometown often speak of it as a city, even though it's a village, and I don't care what they say: it's far too small to be a city under Ohio law. Much better to say it's a community: to dispute that it's a community, you'd have to prove that people didn't live there, since it's so generic. Nyttend (talk) 02:06, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

And I thought I lived in a small town!

As far as we can tell, "town" is not a legal designation in New Mexico, right? So the situation isn't parallel with that of your hometown. "Community" is indisputable as you say, but when we have a source on it being declared a town, I suggest the NPOV way to present the facts would be something like, "In 2005 the local government declared it a town, though as of the 2000 census the federal government listed it only as a CDP." That would leave only the problem of what to put in "official name". Is there a WikiProject or something with a guideline about what to do when the local name and the Census Bureau's classification conflict? —JerryFriedman (Talk) 21:57, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

My point is that people don't always call places what they really are, regardless of what state they're in. But yes, "town" is a legal designation in New Mexico—but not in Ohio. The thing is that (unless NM law is weird) local officials don't have any authority to proclaim that they're a town: unless they incorporate (the mention of which would require sources, but would mean that we should remove the CDP bits), they can't become a town. Of course, if the 2005 thing means that they incorporated, that should be sourceable, and we'd move this into Category:Towns in New Mexico and Category:Former census-designated places. Nyttend (talk) 00:22, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

It might be useful to comment on the relationship of its town status to NM law, but also to call it a town just like many books and other reliable sources do. Or should wikipedia rely on legal fine points, as interpreted by amateur original research, for its terminology? I can't find any sources that claim it is or is not a town, legally, but plenty that call it a town. Dicklyon (talk) 02:41, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Do we know that it's incorporated? The only definitive source, the Census (which tracks all local governments nationwide), says that it's not. I don't think we need to say that it's an unincorporated town, since by their nature that's what CDPs are, but if all of you deem it necessary it's surely no violation of policy. However, Wikipedia's US geographical articles are structured by incorporated or unincorporated—as determined by the Census Bureau: not amateurs. Nyttend (talk) 13:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Well that law my friend has changed in the 2007 legislature. Only Cities Get Incorporated. And once again Chimayo was proclaimed a town, there are a couple of signs in chimayo that its a town, and i currently live there so..you probably have to live there to know right?!.. and Salazar is my last name ..plenty of those were i live.

... ThomasSalazar _Chat?! 12:57 MT, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Well, we can't act on your claim, unless you provide a source. If you can find a link to the text of the new law, it will mean a lot of work, but a lot of necessary work, so I for one would be happy if you could provide a link. Nyttend (talk) 14:17, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

I checked the Rio Grande Sun for November and December, 2005, and didn't see anything on this subject. The Española public library is missing the microfilm for the first half of 2006. Just in case anyone's wondering. —JerryFriedman (Talk) 22:47, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Ranchos de Chimayo

A long time ago somebody took out my [2] entry as being an advertisement or something. It is an old and classical establishment there which I have dined at on and off since 1974. In Wikipedia I see zillions of entries (whole pages) for rock bands, sports clubs, etc. In the [3] entry, "Circus Circus" is not only mentioned but there's a photo of the interior. In Miami the Bank of America Tower is pictured and was not removed as an advertisement or promotion. So I wish somebody would put back that harmless reference to one of the few local landmarks in Chimayo other than churches. I have no financial interest in it and now live far from it. Carrionluggage (talk) 16:01, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

It would be so much better to put a photo of it than a link to their ad. Dicklyon (talk) 16:58, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

You are right. Maybe I will look for that - but then there are permissions and how to post a photo etc none of which I know. But thanks Carrionluggage (talk) 17:54, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

I'll see if I can get one at some point. But if you have a photo you took, uploading it is easy. Just click on "upload file" and follow the directions. If you need any help, feel free to contact me. —JerryFriedman (Talk) 03:37, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Sorry - have not been there for 8 years - will try to check old photos - thanks Carrionluggage (talk) 20:31, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

careful with atlases, maps, etc.

Just because the accent is not on the ó in some "official" place may not mean much. The locals pronounce it with the stress on the terminal "o". Maybe best to call the mayor or the chamber of commerce. Many maps, atlases, gazetteers, encyclopediae, etc deliberately misspell a few town and street names, for copyright reasons (a copier will copy the mistake!) On [4] you will see "Chimayó is located 40 miles south of Taos and 24 miles northeast of Santa Fe, about ten miles east of Espanola in the Sangre de Cristo mountains. It is on" etc Carrionluggage (talk) 20:31, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

The official name of the census-designated place is Chimayo: type it into the Factfinder if you want to be certain. Nyttend (talk) 02:09, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Well, they may be unable to show the accent mark. They list Cañon City, Colorado without the tilde, too. Try telling somebody you visited "Canon City, Colorado" and see how it goes. Cañon City - that's cool and comprehensible - without the tilde it is not very comprehensible (orally). They Factfinder could list it as Canyon City, CO but they don't. Carrionluggage (talk) 03:57, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

I also find: Bruce Richardson Chairman Chimayó Crime Prevention Council PO Box 1027 Chimayó, NM 87522 Phone: 505-827-6112

on link [5] so the Department of Justice seems to think the accent belongs there. This document: [6] from a meeting of the transportation department in Española City Council chambers uses the accent. Hmmm. Carrionluggage (talk) 04:11, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

This is an article on the census-designated place (CDP). The CDP is not entitled ó, any more than the various CDPs in Hawaii have ʻ and macron accents on their names, like some people there have tried to do. Anyway, Cañon City is an incorporated municipality: the CDP isn't, and therefore its name is assigned by the Census Bureau. Can you find a source that says that the CDP is named ó? Nyttend (talk) 05:08, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

I have edited the lead to make it clear that the article is not intended to be primarily about the CDP; it now has both spellings. Dicklyon (talk) 05:34, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Note that both of the first two refs include the spelling with the accent, and one of those is form a state agency. Dicklyon (talk) 16:57, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

I just moved this here

Let's talk about his section.

"Obviously, numbers can be bandied about endlessly. For instance, a new study regarding prescription drug use noted that West Virginia has the highest incidence of drug overdose fatalities, and New Mexico is one of the top five states for drug abuse fatalities (the others being West Virginia, Kentucky, Nevada and Oklahoma). The study also revealed that there are now more prescription drug-related deaths than deaths from heroin and cocaine combined. Incidentally, the study also concluded that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention noted that in 2010 enough prescription pain killers were prescribed in the U.S. to medicate every adult American for one month (http://www.upi.com/blog/2013/10/07/West-Virginia-is-the-top-state-for-drug-overdose-fatalities/9301381163852/). The point is, should you avoid Chimayo, or the rest of New Mexico (or West Virginia, Kentucky, Nevada or Oklahoma)? Probably not, but you should be prudent and careful here, just like everywhere else in this world."

First of all, "obviously" is one of the 27 words or phrases meaning "in my opinion". It has no place here, Neither does the "you" that shows up later. The rest of this at best refers to the state of New Mexico and others and does not mention Chimayo or the surrounding area. Person posting this, why not register as an editor and we can discuss this in the normal way. Carptrash (talk) 15:08, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

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