Talk:Children (composition)

Chart positions

• Can anyone tell what website the chart positions were obtained from? Thanks! Wickethewok 02:46, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Ask User:Escobillo? Seriously, I'd also like to know — although I wonder if this information is even online. (And if someone out there does have a stack of mid-90s music magazines lying around, we really could use more info on this song as there seems to be next to nothing written about it online.) –Unint 06:24, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Also, don't count on the trajectories to stick. User:ShadowHalo has been working to remove them across the site. –Unint 06:26, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

• What do you mean by "trajectories"? Messaged Escobillo btw. Wickethewok 04:55, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

• That would be the extended tables of chart positions by week. Called indiscriminate at Wikipedia:Record charts. –Unint 22:44, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

• Ah, ok. Makes sense - they don't add much to the basic chart info (# weeks on chart, top position). Wickethewok 04:23, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

• • I may not have found the source for the chart positions yet, but I have gained full access to the 1996 Billboard article on "Children", from which I have obtained information that should count as "critical commentary" on the chart positions. (Except most of the countries don't match — I can't corroborate info on Denmark, Belgium, and the Netherlands with charts for Finland, Sweden, and Switzerland!)
  • Is what I added clear enough? I excluded the names of most of the licensee record labels and the names of music executives quoted, which seem pointlessly obscure. I also excluded the numbers of weeks at number-one and sales figures quoted in the article, as the information included here is clearly newer (in excess of those). –Unint 19:58, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
• Nice find on the Billboard source, Unint.  :-) Wickethewok 22:58, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Origins of dream house

Found enough newspaper articles to expand on the social atmosphere in Italy apparently responsible for the creation of the music. I'm saving some material for a longer summary at dream house, as well. Unfortunately, I have no statistics on car accidents in Italy following the creation of dream house. (The outlooks at the time did seem a bit idealistic.)

Also, I've read that dream house was just a name used outside of Italy to market what was called "Mediterranean progressive house" domestically. The problem is, there are no Google hits for this term expect in reference to Gigi D'Agostino (one of which is that very article). Never mind that, just searched for "Mediterranean progressive" alone. And it does seem to be primarily an Italian phenomenon. Anyone able to corroborate this? –Unint 21:19, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Robert Miles - Children (Cover).jpg

Image:Robert Miles - Children (Cover).jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 04:52, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Lawsuit

Does anyone know the outcome of the lawsuit Patrick O'Hearn started? I googled it but couldn't find any information regarding this event.Sandwiches99 04:26, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

+1 to wanting results of the court action. xenocidic ( talk ¿ review ) 18:23, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Section removed

Since I couldn't even find any reference to the lawsuit at all, I've removed the section. xenocidic ( talk ¿ review ) 18:47, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Dunblane Massacre

This single was in the UK charts at the time of the Dunblane Massacre and I'm sure its extended stay near the top of the chart was related to this. I also recall that on Top of the Pops the BBC only referred to the song by the artist's name, not mentioning the word 'Children'. This is a curious reflection of the public trauma at the time.The Yowser (talk) 12:05, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Indeed, I remember this well the song seemed to capture the public mood after Dunblane, strange how the article doesn't mention the connection. 90.250.1.152 (talk) 18:01, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

Authorship of Garik Sukachov

• Although this information was removed several weeks ago due to missing references, it is confirmable that the composition Children by Robert Miles is actually based on a song by Garik Sukachov, called Напои меня водой (transl. "Give me water") from the year 1994 (cf. Russian Wikipedia (http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Неприкасаемые_(группа)), one year before Children was released. This is also confirmed by Sukachev himself in the show Достояние республики (transl. "Property of the republic") from 2011 on Channel One Russia (http://www.1tv.ru/prj/dostrespub/vypusk/7484). I think the information about Sukachev's contribution to the composition should be mentioned. --Mdphddr (talk) 22:32, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
  • If Sukachov is contesting the authorship of this song, then it should be presented as such (perhaps in its own section), not be included as accepted fact in the main description of the song.173.164.127.101 (talk) 19:04, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

I do not understand which citations you want to have. I think it is proven that Sukachev was the author of the mentioned main piano motif (not of the whole Children composition though), simply since his song with the same melody was released one year before Miles' Children, and Sukachev is credited as the composer and writer of the song "Give me water". And I do not think that Sukachev is lying about his official agreement with Miles to use his melody in Miles' 1995 project, as mentioned in his talk broadcast on public Russian television. Nor I think it it is possible that these two melodies are just so similar by chance, without Sukachev having a relationship to Miles. Also, Sukachev could not have copied it, as his song was released earlier. So there is only one possibility: Miles adopted this motif from Sukachev.

I agree there are no official 'documents' or peer-reviewed papers talking about Sukachev's authorship published in the internet (we cannot know whether such documents exist elsewhere), but I am not surprised, as I doubt that someone would write extensively about this. A similar situation you have with many other songs, take Kalimba De Luna by Boney M. as an example. The original song was released several months before by Tony Esposito. And this information can also be found in the article on the song and not only in the author's article, and his authorship is not raised to question, simply because Esposito presented the same song 'publicly BEFORE Boney M. The rest are more or less covers.

All in all we are not talking about Sukachev's 'authorship' of the song Children - this would be wrong, as Miles is the author of Children, BUT the sentence you want to remove is saying Childrens' main piano motif is based on Sukachev's song. And this is factually accurate. So please do not revert or delete this information until you can prove that either both authors have nothing in common (and the similarities are e. g. just by chance) or that Sukachev is lying.

Sincerely --Mdphddr (talk) 22:55, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

If you have sources, which mention "Childrens' main piano motif is based on Sukachev's song", then this information will be given in current article. If you don't have sources, this information wouldn't be given in the article. While it's obvious for you, it MUST be verifiable (please, read Wikipedia:Verification). No sources - no information. --Movses (talk) 20:52, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

Hm, your link looks good. More suitable link (with pointer to 43m45s ) is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdmEG_UUR8s&feature=youtu.be&t=43m45s

When critic Boris Barabanov asked Garik about Miles' "Children", Garik answered:

Мне позвонили (то ли итальянский исполнитель, то ли группа), которые хотели бы использовать мелодию из песни "Напои меня водой" в каком-то семпле там (или что-то такое). Я сказал "да, милости просим, почему нет".

They phoned me (either italian performer, either group) and they asked using melody from the song "Napoi menia vodoi" in their sample (or something like that). I answered "yes, it's ok, why not".

--Movses (talk) 21:45, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

I know pretty well about the verification criteria in WP. But you are demanding "sources" also no other songs covered by artists may have (just for example, show me some really independent sources proving Kalimba De Luna was covered by Boney M). I think the mentioned part of the talk in the video (and you understood and translated it pretty well), the similarity and obvious inheritance of both motifs as well as the history of both songs (namely Sukachev's came out before Miles') are enough to say "Childrens' main piano motif is based on Sukachev's song", and you have not disproven it either, e. g. by presenting independent sources claiming that Miles authored the piano motif himself and explaining away the obvious similarities between Miles' and Sukachov's compositions.

As I said in my contribution above (read I mentioned this several times in this discussion), It is too much to claim Sukachov is the "author" of the song Children, that is simply not accurate, but if you or others refuse to admit that both motifs are similar and obviously based on each other, I think you should say a word about your reasons to do that. Again, I understand that no independent sources or papers (except the mentioned video) are presented to support this claim, but they are quite difficult to find anyway, not only regarding this song. I will not revert your change, as I am not interested in edit wars - we have to respect each other and I respect your efforts. But I think you should tell me how do you explain the similarity of both songs (whereas Sukachev's song came out earlier).Mdphddr (talk) 22:47, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

Do you have any objections for next passage ? --Movses (talk) 07:05, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

Critic Boris Barabanov claims similarity between "Children" and Garik Sukachov song "Napoi menia vodoi" 
and admitted, that song "Napoi menia vodoi" was written before "Children". 
Russian singer Garik Sukachov explained that he gave consent on using his melody by italian counterparties.

A very good passage. I have no objections against it, although it is a bit too long. I just think the small sentence before was saying quite the same as this paragraph, without mentioning Barabanov as the source though. But I agree with your sentence, too. Change it accordingly, I hope there is a place for the whole paragraph it the article. Thanks! --Mdphddr (talk) 13:55, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

I think we can omit Barabanov's name if you can provide sources, claim when "Napoi menia vodoi" was recorded. I had googled, but I didn't catch reliable source. --Movses (talk) 15:39, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

I could not find special and serious sources writing about the year Garik's song came out. RUnet is not really good in providing such sources. But the song 'Napoi menya vodoy' is from Sukachev's album Брёл, брёл, брёл, which officially came out in 1994 (http://garik.su/detail/25, http://www.discogs.com/Неприкасаемые-Брёл-Брёл-Брёл/release/2199132 look here at the bottom of the page, as the album was re-released several times, 2001 among others). But for me it is also OK if Barabanov's name is mentioned, it underlines that some critics also know that the melody's origins are from Sukachev.--Mdphddr (talk) 20:23, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

References

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Other similarities

There is a similarity between "Children" and Oxygène composed by Jean-Michel Jarre. I have compared the Youtube-Video and a CD edition by Polystar/Polmedia, Hamburg. --Hannover86 (talk) 10:44, 29 November 2018 (UTC)