Talk:Ched Evans

Sheff Utd transfer

Due to vandalism, I've reverted to the last known good version - please feel free to update with Sheff Utd transfer details when better sourced. Minkythecat (talk) 20:10, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Lock?

Think, given recent events, that this site is prime for locking except for registered users. Anyone agree? Martyn Smith (talk) 15:07, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

• Yes I agree with that, if only I knew how to do it I would do it now. Raphie (talk) 15:28, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Go to WP:RPP Leaky Caldron 15:48, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Semi-protected for a week. When I first looked at the article history as the news broke, changes were largely constructive, but as the news of Evans' imprisonment has spread, that is no longer the case, and I have applied protection. Oldelpaso (talk) 15:57, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Though the page is locked, there is a "lol forget about it pal" under the "Team GB" bit in the article. While funny, this is rape we're talking about, so it is rather inappropriate. Please remove it. I'm sorry, I don't know how to sign this post. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.64.65.80 (talk) 22:57, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Removed. Mattythewhite (talk) 23:04, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

No, it hasn't been removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.64.65.80 (talk) 06:29, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

Strange. It doesn't appear to me, including if I log out. Looking at the article history, the offending text was removed in this edit by Mattythewhite and is not present in any of the subsequent revisions. Very occasionally, users who are not logged-in can end up viewing a version of a page from their browser cache instead of the up to date version. That could be happening here. Is it still there if you manually reload the page? (press Ctrl-F5 in Internet Explorer, or Ctrl-Shift-R in Firefox or Chrome) Oldelpaso (talk) 09:23, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the tip, but no, it still appears to me, even when I reload the page. Perhaps someone is reverting it every time? Very poor taste if so. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.64.65.80 (talk) 18:56, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

That is very odd. I can say unequivocally that nobody is reverting and the text hasn't been re-added at any point - every single revision is listed and viewable in the article history, and I've checked every one since then (for reference, at the time of writing the current revision is this one). Everything looks as it should be from the Wikipedia end, which makes it puzzling as to why you are being served with the wrong version. I can't see it being anything over than a caching issue. What browser are you using? Are you reloading the page using the keyboard shortcuts I gave or by clicking the refresh button on the browser? Sometimes pressing the refresh button can still end up loading some of the page from the browser cache, those keyboard shortcuts bypass that and make sure every item on the page is reloaded from scratch. There's some further instructions for trying to resolve this kind of issue at Wikipedia:Bypass your cache. If that doesn't work it ought to be raised elsewhere as a potential bug with the site. Oldelpaso (talk) 20:54, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

The control-F5 refresh did the trick, thanks. Very unusual, I went on the main wikipedia page and searched for "ched evans" and when the page loaded, it was still there, only went away after I did the shortcut. Simply hitting the refresh button didn't work. I'm using Internet Explorer. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.64.65.80 (talk) 17:58, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Semi-protection

This article has been semi-protected. Semi-protection prevents edits from unregistered users (IP addresses), as well as edits from any account that is not autoconfirmed (is at least four days old and has at least ten edits to Wikipedia) or confirmed. Such users can request edits to this article by proposing them on this talk page, using the {{Edit semi-protected}} template if necessary to gain attention. New users may also request the confirmed user right by visiting Requests for permissions. SilkTork ^{✔Tea time} 23:13, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 23 April 2012

change the sheffield united years to end in 2012 90.212.106.17 (talk) 17:38, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

We have no evidence his contract has been terminated by Sheff Utd, unless you can provide multiple reliable sources? The Rambling Man (talk) 17:43, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

I've not seen any mention of cancelling his contract - the club have not mentioned it and there's no report in the Star or on the BBC (which are the most reliable for Blades info). I think the club are waiting to see what happens re an appeal. HIs deal runs out this summer anyway so they probably don't want to draw any more publicity to the whole affair.Bladeboy1889 (talk) 18:17, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Ched Evans/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: GreatOrangePumpkin (talk · contribs) 19:59, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

   " After an unspectacular first two seasons at Bramall Lane he scored 35 goals during the 2011–12 season." - Confusing. Is the 2011-12 season = the two seasons? Or is it something different?

   That is the standard way of referring to seasons. Bladeboy1889 (talk)

   "With first choice opportunities at City limited Evans moved on loan to Norwich City in November of that year, " - I don't understand the first phrase.

   Changed choice to team. Bladeboy1889 (talk)

   Who are the "Canaries"?

   Norwich City, have swapped to Norwich. Bladeboy1889 (talk)

   "and just just"

   Removed the second one.Bladeboy1889 (talk)

   "Evans returned to Manchester City after his initial loan deal expired in January 2008 having made eight appearances and scored two goals.[9]" there should be a comma between the date and "having"

   added a comma

   "with Manchester City able to" - shouldn't it be "with Manchester City being able to..."?

   "Evans joined Sheffield United for an initial fee of £3 million plus possible future add-ons on a three year deal in July 2009[15] making his debut for United in the first game of the new season; " - such a long sentence and no commas... but there should be one ahead the footnote

   Comma added Bladeboy1889 (talk)

   I am not a native English speaker, but I feel there are many commas missing. I will request a second opinion and I suggest you find someone who could copyedit this article.

   " He become a regular member of the squad and in November 2007" surely it should be "became"? Or is he still playing for Wales?

   Typo - changed to became. Bladeboy1889 (talk)

   "On 28 March 2012 Stuart Pearce the Great Britain Olympic football team manager was present at the match against Chesterfield with Ched Evans scoring a hat-trick and scoring his thirtieth goal of the season in a 4–1 at Bramall Lane. " - "On 28 March 2012, Stuart Pearce the Great Britain Olympic football team manager, was present at the match against Chesterfield, with Ched Evans scoring a hat-trick and scoring his thirtieth goal of the season in a 4–1 at Bramall Lane. " Also it could be reworded as the "with...+ing" is rather colloquial, and last scoring should be removed.

   Removed the second scoring and revised the sentence slightly. Bladeboy1889 (talk)

   "Evans stated about the possibility of representing Team GB at the London 2012 Summer Olympics," - update?

   I've reworded it slightly. Not sure what you mean by update? He is in prison so certainly hasn't been to the Olympics. Bladeboy1889 (talk)

   Oops... Perhaps I did this mistake as I reviewed step by step...--Kürbis (✔) 13:32, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

   "After the death of former Wales boss and Sheffield United player, coach and Manager" - why is manager in capitals while coach is not?

   Changed. Bladeboy1889 (talk)

   "Evans revealed a message under his shirt after scoring his first goal in the FA Cup win over Torquay United which read:" - comma ahead which, and read - reads

   comma added - read (pronounced red) is the past tense of read so that is correct. Bladeboy1889 (talk)

   My mistake. I did not read it carefully. Regards.--Kürbis (✔) 13:32, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

   These are the major issues. The text may need a slight copyedit, but all in all it is ok for GA. Regards.--Kürbis (✔) 13:26, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

   Updated the text accordingly. Bladeboy1889 (talk) 12:24, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

• Nevermind, I may finish today. Regards.--Kürbis (✔) 08:19, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

Pass Meets the criteria. --Kürbis (✔) 13:32, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Article protected

Enough edit-warring. Discuss your changes here and establish consensus on how the article should appear. Protected one week. --Dweller (talk) 14:00, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

In part this was due to ClueBot reverting as vandalism the IP's rapist addition in opening paragraph. Obviously not vandalism and not necessarily an improper placement. Leaky Caldron 14:08, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

Quite right. But there's been other revert warring of late, too. --Dweller (talk) 14:11, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

Yes. Not sure if ClueBot should be reported, not sure how selective it can be and the addition of rapist would often be a genuine BLP vio. What are your thoughts on the IP's reference in the opening para? Seems reasonable per WP:MOSBEGIN and WP:BEGINNING given that he is probably now better known as a conviced criminal than a footballer (apart from by football supporters of course). Leaky Caldron 14:31, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

I don't think that's true - he meets notability criteria because of his football career not his rape conviction. Were he (formerly) a painter and decorator he wouldn't have a wikipedia article. The rape conviction is only notable in itself because of his vocation. The reason I'd done some reverts is that IP's keep either vandalising the page or just adding mentions of this crime all over the place, and having done a lot of work in getting it to GA I don't want the article to deteriorate at the hands of random IPs. In terms of the intro I don't see what purpose a short sentence (which I maintain is poor grammar anyway) stating his conviction serves, when it is covered in more detail further down the intro. What we should maybe do is change the first sentence to referring to him as a former footballer however. Bladeboy1889 (talk) 15:28, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

I'd also suggest that the insistence of the IP that his conviction is the key notable fact about his is certainly not NPOV Bladeboy1889 (talk) 15:32, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

This has also happened at Jonathan King with some IP editors insisting on saying that he is a convicted paedophile in the opening sentence. Where a person is famous for something other than a court case, there is no need to have it in the opening sentence as this can violate WP:NPOV.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 15:43, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

No real attempt made to discuss this then? I propose altering the opening sentence to "...is a professional footballer who is currently serving a prison sentence following a conviction for rape." I'll make this change in a few days unless there's a consensus not to. Bladeboy1889 (talk) 21:07, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

So as soon as the protection comes off someone has seen fit to copy the entire section about his conviction into the lead which goes against MOS:LEAD and give undue emphasis to the content thus suggesting it was done for WP:NPOV reasons. This is really starting to get annoying now. Bladeboy1889 (talk) 09:14, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

January 2015

Re this edit: whether Evans likes it or not, he is probably now more famous for the controversy over his rape conviction than for anything that he did on the football field. The edit was reverted because attempting to conflate being a footballer and rapist into the same sentence leads to clumsy wording, something which has been reverted previously. As for Bladeboy1889's suggestion that Evans should be described as a former footballer, this leads to an element of WP:CRYSTAL, as a club *may* sign him, but don't hold your breath waiting.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 16:39, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

I agree that he is vastly better known now as a rapist than as a footballer. I also agree that we should not say "former" footballer as he may well play again. I am disappointed that this edit was reverted; it is usually better to seek a compromise than make a blind revert, especially when you say you basically agree with the intent of the edit. I shall try to do what you ought to have done and seek a compromise. --John (talk) 18:03, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

Previous problems have occurred because of attempts to find a consensus based on MOS:BEGIN. This does not require everything to be in the opening sentence, rather it should be in the opening paragraph. At the time of writing, there are reports that he may be signed by Oldham Athletic, [1] but this may fall through like the other attempted signings.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 18:17, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

yes it is a tricky one, the Rapist Ched Evans is better known and better covered in the media as a rapist than a footballer and the article should reflect that. --Cameron Scott (talk) 21:30, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

He's covered as a footballer whose conviction for rape makes obstacles in playing as a footballer. There wouldn't be as much coverage of him if he wasn't still trying to resume his football career. '''tAD''' (talk) 21:50, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

• Exactly. I think it is inaccurate to say that he is better known as a rapist than a footballer; he is best known as a professional footballer who was convicted of rape, and every bit of coverage on him about the rape case has almost always had some reference to him being a footballer. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 21:52, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
• Equally, do we need to cover every single club that has been linked with him? I don't think doing so is appropriate, and we don't generally do it for other footballers regardless of their stature. Some of the links are obviously notable, such as the Sheffield United one, but is there really any notability in the Tranmere link, or the Oldham Athletic one as it stands right now? I don't think so. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 21:56, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

@User:Lukeno94 These are not simply clubs "linked with him" as that would break Wikipedia's rules on gossip. These clubs have either expressed interest in him, let him train or discussed with his agent, bringing reaction from club patrons, MPs, and even the Prime Minister and Justice Minister of an EU member state. In most other cases, a former League One player being in discussion with a League Two club would only be covered in the local newspaper or buried deep on the BBC Sport website's page for said club. '''tAD''' (talk) 00:03, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

• Tranmere's link doesn't appear to have been discussed beyond a mere rumour/statement of interest. The Oldham Athletic one isn't notable yet either. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 00:28, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

I didn't insert Oldham myself into the article as it is still unconfirmed. However, reliable sources have reaction from the manager and owner on it. '''tAD''' (talk) 01:16, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

• I know you didn't, but it's still not particularly notable right now. The Maltese one is, as are the Sheffield United and Hartlepool ones... but the others are purely routine transfer speculation (it isn't that unheard of for managers to object publicly to the signing of a particular player, although it isn't common) and have no place there. At this rate, half of the career section is going to be dedicated to the transfer saga! Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 10:35, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

• I've removed the Grimsby Town link because, not only has no one outside of the club or the proposed deal actually said anything, the only source that has covered it right now is Grimsby's local paper. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 15:38, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 January 2015

It says on the page, "his career was marked by controversy". I wanna change that to "marred" and I think this is a better word to use Nickclayden2796 (talk) 16:45, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

 Not done: I don't think that is the right word (in this context). G S Palmer (talk • contribs) 17:18, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 January 2015

I want to update the picture of Ched Evans as he looks slightly different now so I want to upload a new picture of him. 86.150.161.233 (talk) 17:44, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Go ahead! Just make sure that it is appropriately licensed and then upload it. You might find the File Upload Wizard useful. G S Palmer (talk • contribs) 18:05, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Since the existing image is public domain (cropped from this image) it would run into problems with WP:NFCC if the new image was copyrighted, such as an image found in a web search. The infobox image dates from 2008, but it is still a reasonable likeness of Ched Evans. The only other image on Commons is this one, which isn't very good IMHO.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 18:06, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

"Attempts to find a new club" section move

In this edit the section about Evans' attempts to find a new club was moved further up the page. I agree that the "personal life" section was getting overburdened by his search for a new club, but I am not sure that was the right place to put it.

His search is not part of his club career, and if he were to get a position with Oldham later this week then his club career section would say "Manchester City - Sheffield United - Attempts to find a new club - Oldham" - it just doesn't fit in there.

I would propose putting that back under "Personal Life" and making it a subsection - either that or give his search for a new club a new section after personal life.Stroller (talk) 03:24, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

The Almightey Drill seems an indecisive fellow.. I've also restored the notice he removed previously. Stroller (talk) 00:28, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Karl Massey's website

In the Personal Life section, the article says: 'Karl Massey has set up a website proclaiming Evans to be innocent of his rape conviction,' but fails to give the name of that website.

Why mention the website without the name or a link? That would be relevant information, surely? Gnu Ordure (talk) 18:14, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

It's probably not linked because its name is not given in the newspaper article cited. I assume this is a reference to ChedEvans.com which bills itself as "Ched Evans Official Website: Ched Evans Was Wrongly Convicted". I see no reason not to have this site mentioned or linked somewhere - if not there, then maybe at the bottom of the page as a "Related links" section. Stroller (talk) 00:40, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, Stroller. I've simply added a footnote in the appropriate place. Hope it's OK, I'm not familiar with these new footnote codes. Feel free to improve it, if you want to. Cheers. Gnu Ordure (talk) 23:28, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

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Still registered?

The article reads "He was released on 17 October 2014, although he remains on the Violent and Sex Offender Register indefinitely".

I'm not a legal expert, but surely if his conviction is quashed, there is no reason for him to be registered as a criminal at all?

Ianmacm, do you know the drill here? '''tAD''' (talk) 14:44, 20 June 2016 (UTC)

I'm not an expert on this either, but the conviction has only been quashed pending a retrial in October this year, so it is not quite the same as the conviction being quashed altogether. The wording could be altered in the article to reflect this. The Violent and Sex Offender Register cannot be accessed by members of the public, so it is hard to say for sure what the current status of Evans is. Since it was not a child sex offence, "Sarah's Law" would not apply here.[2]--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 15:18, 20 June 2016 (UTC)

Spireite 1st team coach

It's Chris Morgan, not Craig Short. Ref [3]. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.163.140.7 (talk) 15:20, 20 June 2016 (UTC)

Incorrect information

The sentence that says Ched Evans will remain on the violent sex offenders register is incorrect. His details were removed the moment his conviction was quashed.

Please remove this information immediately.

(Cemediafollower (talk) 10:14, 1 August 2016 (UTC))

Thanks for pointing this out, it has also been mentioned in the section above. It may well be that the ban was lifted when the original verdict was quashed, but there was a lack of reliable sourcing. I've removed this for the time being.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 10:27, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

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• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150109161943/http://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/CHED-EVANS-Grimsby-Town-boss-Paul-Hurst-refuses/story-25826097-detail/story.html to http://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/CHED-EVANS-Grimsby-Town-boss-Paul-Hurst-refuses/story-25826097-detail/story.html

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Protected

I have fully protected the article for 24 hours to give everyone some breathing space. I realise completely whitewashing the article is not the answer, but perhaps some of the content in question could be trimmed a bit as a compromise? Discuss. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 17:48, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

I'll have a look but it's obvious that all mention of the rape trial is not going to be removed. It's a pity that the IP did this without any WP:BRD discussion.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 17:50, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

Thanks,Ritchie333, for equating the edits of myself and Ianmacm to those of the IP removing sourced material. Discuss with whom exactly? The IP hopper? ——SerialNumber54129 17:53, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

My speculation is that the IP is either Ched Evans or someone associated with him - it's certainly someone who is cross and upset about the rape trial. Given that the conviction was quashed, I think there's an argument to be made that it no longer belongs in the lead, and that the trial information should be pared down a bit. To pick a random comparable example, Paul Gambaccini, the lead does not mention his Operation Yewtree arrest, which is restricted to a few paragraphs in the body (and even then I think it could be pared down). Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 17:58, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

We also have the spin-off article R v Evans and McDonald. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 19:22, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

• Yeah, I don't think the IP is interested in discussing anything; it's just whitewashing. As for the article, I find its organization a bit odd. If the rape trial etc. is important enough to be in the lead, and he's notable as a football player, I'd also expect there to be some mention of the problems resigning after the 2016 trial, and I'd expect those problems to be treated under his career, rather than separately, toward the bottom of the article--but that influences other aspects of the article, of course. Anyway, if that IP returns after protection runs out, I say block em. Drmies (talk) 21:12, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

I did a quick news search for Evans and all but one hit on the first two pages are about football. Four years ago it would have been a different story, but he's been found innocent in a court of law. So while we have to cover the imprisonment and trial, WP:BLPCRIME suggests we don't go overboard about it like some of the tabloids did. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 21:23, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

@Ritchie333: Ho. Ho. Ho. ——SerialNumber54129 18:25, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

Yeah, happened just after I went to bed; I'd have done exactly the same. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 18:27, 22 February 2019 (UTC)