Talk:Charles Bingham Penrose/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Esculenta (talk · contribs) 16:33, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

Hi, I will take on this review. Hope to have comments up within a few days. Esculenta (talk) 16:33, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

Thank you! There is no hurry on my end. I appreciate your willingness to take on this review. Larry Hockett (Talk) 16:52, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for your patience! Here's some preliminary comments for your consideration: Esculenta (talk) 02:50, 24 December 2020 (UTC)

• possibly useful links for the lead: gynecologist, zoologist, conservationist (these last two are linked in the final sentence of the lead, but should be linked in the first sentence), Fellow, Philadelphia, doctorate, drainage, postgraduate, Wyoming, cattle rustler, memoir
  • I think I got all of these. I may have moved or changed certain terms while addressing other items listed here, but I think all of these terms are still linked in the lead.
• “Penrose was born in Philadelphia.” I know it’s already given in the lead sentence and in the infobox, but it seems odd to not mention his birthdate in the running text
  • Done.
• I count three notable brothers mentioned; did he have any others?
  • Those are the only three notable ones, as far as I can tell, but he had six. I adjusted the lead, which only mentioned two of them. Of the three apparently non-notable brothers, one of them (named Boies, the same name as the most famous brother) died in infancy; one (Philip) died in his 30s but didn't have any significant coverage; and one (Francis) lived to about 80. This crazy story is out there about Francis, but I can't confirm really any of it with an RS. In fact, the death certificate for Francis indicates that he would have been living at a mental hospital - not working on the Titanic - at the time of the famous crash. I wasn't sure if I should mention the other brothers (like from the Leach source) given the amount of detail I went into about the notable relatives. Let me know.
• perhaps link obstetrics, Maryland, state senator, U.S. senator, mining engineer
  • Done, I think. I ended up linking mining engineer in the lead instead of here.
• ”… and was the adopted granddaughter of an affluent Boston merchant.” do we know his name?
  • Added.
• the only part of the section “Early life” that really qualifies under that heading is the initial 5-word sentence, which seems a little awkward.
  • Still looking for more early life information, but I have at least added some info. I tweaked the section title to indicate that a lot of it was a discussion of his family. I can revert that if it's not helpful.
• “excelled academically with averages” -> grade-point averages
  • Adjusted.
• what year did Penrose enter university? Also year of graduation (as a reader I prefer not to have to work out the math from his birthdate)
  • Added.
• ”Penrose produced physics research that was published in journals soon after his graduation.” I would be interested to read what the titles of these papers are, and have a link to them if that’s available.
  • I took this out because these seem to be the same papers mentioned in the next bullet.
• ”and published two major papers in electricity and magnetism.” … ditto, esp. if they’re “major papers”
  • I took out the "major" because the source described them as "serious" papers, and on reflection, a publication can be serious without being major or influential. Added the name of the journal.
• what were the titles of his dissertations?
  • Added the title of his PhD thesis.
• the “University of Pennsylvania gets abbreviated to “Penn” a couple of times (without defining the abbreviation), which might cause confusion for some, especially given that there’s also someone named “Penn” in the article.
  • I think I have caught these now.
• ”Penrose completed a residency at Pennsylvania Hospital in 1885 and 1886.” How could he have completed it twice? Needs rewording
  • Reworded.
• was it a surgical residency that Penrose completed?
  • That would make sense, but I am still trying to confirm it. I found a couple of sources referring to him as a resident physician and saying that he became known for his surgical skill, but I don't know if it's safe to assume that this refers to general surgery.
  • Update on this: I am still just seeing "resident physician" as the descriptor in the sources, and I think the issue is that formal training in medicine and surgery was not separate yet (so being a resident physician likely involved training in both medicine and surgery). Our own article on William Stewart Halsted describes Halsted as establishing the first formal surgical residency program (at Johns Hopkins), and that wasn't until the 1890s. I'm not sure if I can find a source that explicitly supports this as it applies to Penrose's training though.
• ”having been named an attending outpatient surgeon”; “Penrose was named Professor of Gynecology” does being “named” mean he was hired for these positions?
  • Clarified.
• ”and Barber had him put up at the exclusive Cheyenne Club” the CC links to the Wyoming Stock Growers Association, so maybe add some short explanatory text like “one of the wealthiest and most exclusive establishments on the frontier” would be helpful for the reader
  • Added. Took out the link to the CC since we already link to the WSGA; let me know if it should stay.
• what year did he publish the first edition of “Text-Book on Diseases of Women”?
  • Added.
• ”In the foreword to Disease in Captive Wild Mammals and Birds (1923), he decried the fact…” Might want to mention the author of this book (pathologist Herbert Fox) and the fact that the book is dedicated to Penrose, and the foreword could be linked as well.
  • Added the name of the author and mentioned the dedication.
• ”Along with two colleagues, Penrose established the study” names?
  • Added.
• whatever became of the Penrose Research Laboratory? Is it red-link worthy? (Britannica has an article on it)
  • I will try to find a little more on this. I think it makes for a plausible red link. I know that a researcher (one of the two colleagues mentioned above) created "zoo cake" (an animal nutritional product) there and I will add that.
• link abdominal surgery, gauze, bowel, suction
  • I left off abdominal surgery because it is linked in the lead, but I linked the others. My general approach is to avoid duplicating links from the lead in the body, but I will add the link in the body if you think it is helpful to do so.
    • According to MOS:REPEATLINK, duplicate links can occur "at the first occurrence after the lead", but I'll leave that up to your judgement. Esculenta (talk) 19:10, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
• the source that is called "Medical History at the University of Pennsylvania" is actually titled "Philadelphia Medical History and the University of Pennsylvania"
  • Adjusted.
• ”hospital ever treated indigent patients” perhaps change to the simpler word “poor” (even our own article on poverty does not use the word indigent)
  • Done.
• maybe link lynching, U.S. marshal
  • Added a link to lynching in the lead and U.S. marshal in the body.
• ’’Habeas corpus’’ should be italicized
  • Oops. Adjusted.
• ”Penrose wrote a memoir, The Rustler Business, about the events in Wyoming.” published when?
  • Added.
• ”Penrose also expressed beliefs that differed from those of the big cattlemen,” were the cattlemen really that large or is a more suitable adjective needed?
  • Clarified that they were members of the "big cattle" organization, the WSGA.
• ”Penrose, who stood six feet tall”; “he swam 15 miles” should give a convert to metric
  • Done.
• ”having once traveled on horseback from Philadelphia to Niagara Falls and back.” how far/long is this? (I don’t want to have to do the research and arithmetic to be impressed by his horse’s fortitude)
  • I can't find a source that describes the distance of Penrose's trip. Because both Philadelphia and Niagara Falls are huge, I am seeing a broad range of estimates online (295 to about 400 miles [about 475 to 650 km]). Maybe I could add an explanatory footnote for the distance between the two locations from an RS.
• link Montana
  • Done.

Esculenta, thank you for your feedback so far. I've addressed these points where I could (a few exceptions are noted inline above). I am ready for further feedback or instructions, but I'm not in any hurry. Larry Hockett (Talk) 23:05, 29 December 2020 (UTC)

Additional comments:

• I read in the Powell (2002) source that the impetus for his 5-hour swim was because of a dare, "the result of a conversation about the powers of human endurance". I find that quite interesting and think it should be included in the article, as it gives a glimpse into the character and personality of this man. Similarly, the fact that his father advised him to dig ditches for health, and the fact that he did this without pay for the city of Cheyenne.
• the lead image should indicate when the photo was taken (or his age at the time)
• the lack of images might be helped by including a historic image of a building/organization he was associated with, or a photo of a Penrose drain. I happen to have one here, and could take a picture with its packaging if you're interested.
• "In volume 16 of the ..." the source says volume 17
• it might be useful to include links to his two physics papers JSTOR 25138640 and JSTOR 25138641
• consider summarizing all of his published works in a "Publications" section.

Evaluation of GA criteria:

• 1. The article is well written and complies with the Manual of Style
• 2. I've checked a number of online sources and am satisfied that the sources are reliable, there is no original research, and no copyright violation/plagiarism.
• 3. The article is broad in its coverage and covers the main aspects of the subject.
• the article is 4. Neutral and 5. Stable
• 6. The single image is appropriately tagged.

The article already meets the GA criteria, and so I am going to promote this now; you can implement (or not) the additional suggestions as you see fit. Have a good day! Esculenta (talk) 19:10, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

Esculenta, thanks again for your review. If you still have access to that Penrose drain, I would be happy to see a photo of it incorporated into this article, at your convenience. I notice that there is a public domain image in the Penrose drain entry, but since there are six drains coming out of one patient's hand in that image, the reader might not get a great sense of what an individual drain looks like. Larry Hockett (Talk) 11:24, 31 December 2020 (UTC)