Talk:Central Military Commission (China)

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Why was it moved from Central_Military_Commission? This article discusses both the party and state CMCs. The title suggests it is only about the state one. Do other countries have prominent CMC's? --Jiang 22:46 26 Jul 2003 (UTC)

The article says the top leadership of the state CMC and the party CMC are the same, and Jiang Zemin passed the leaderships of both CMCs to Hu Jingtao in September 2004. Nonetheless, as far as I remember Jiang passed the leadership of the party state CMC slightly later than the state party CMC to Hu. — Instantnood 20:42, Feb 14 2005 (UTC)

I have found that Jiang is still the leader of the state CMC. It is expected the position will be passed to Hu on March 13, 2005, the last day of the meetings of the People's Consultative Conference and the National People's Congress. — Instantnood 07:10 Feb 26 2005 (UTC)

Jiang Zemin submitted the resignation today (March 4) and is pending to the approval by the National People's Congress. — Instantnood 13:05 Mar 4 2005 (UTC)

There were two

The KMT and ROC also had a Central Military Commission, with the same name and basic structure, set up by the same Soviet advisors. We should either create two level 1 sections or create a disambiguation. --Jiang 13:45, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

Requested move

Central Military Commission → Central Military Commission of the People's Republic of China – disambiguation with the one in Vietnam and possibly other communist countries. DHN 04:40, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Done. Please create the dab page now. —Nightstallion (?) ^{Seen this already?} 09:23, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Reorganization?

There was something to that effect mentioned at the end of National Security Council. I've no other information about this, but still thought it was better served here. Alcarillo 17:48, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Remove this

Believed by whom? Also the chair of the CMC is only one member among several, and it is not clear how the decision making process works. Finally, Hua Guofeng was CMC chair and it didn't help him in the power struggle against Deng Xiaoping.

Leadership of the CMC is largely believed to be the most important in the PRC. Anyone who sits as a chairperson of the CMC has control of the armed forces, is recognized as Commander-in-Chief, and thereby has effective control over the state.Roadrunner 03:22, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

CMC chairmanship didn't help Jiang Zemin retain power 2003-04 either. Jiang couldn't even stop the "two centers" article from being published in the army newspaper, so the CMC is obviously set up in such a way that the chairman can be outvoted. Jiang had a 6-3 majority on the Politburo, but Hu Jintao put him out to pasture anyway. So the military members of the CMC, a group of people we know nothing about, may well be China's kingmakers. All the same, what position is more important than CMC chairman? The other big position is general secretary. During the Hua/Deng struggle, Hua was general secretary as well as CMC chairman. Mao was continuously CMC chairman, never general secretary. Kauffner 14:07, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Kauffner, you seem to have missed the transition from "hang on to power for as long as possible, at whatever cost" to "change leaders on a regular basis." Jiang Zemin's term was up, and he went. When Hu Jintao's term is up, he'll go, too. DOR (HK) (talk) 07:26, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Jiang's term was up only as party chief. He was planning to stay on CMC chairman until the army newspaper published an article criticizing the idea of "two centers."[1] After what happen to Shanghai party boss Chen Liangyu, I doubt Hu or his major supporters will give up power voluntarily either.

To get back to the article, I think it should mentioned that Mao was CMC chairman. The military was his power base, how he could terrorize the Communist Party and the Politburo. Also, I think this sentance needs to be rewritten: The CMC is usually chaired by the Chinese President. Combining president, CMC chairman and party chief into one person is a recent development. After Liu Shaoqi was purged in 1966, nobody was president for 17 years. Kauffner (talk) 17:01, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Origins

I've added some earlier material about the party military committee pre-1949.DOR (HK) (talk) 07:40, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Structure

I'm surprised we missed mentioning the General Office, now headed by Wang Guangzhong, a member of the CCP DIC. DOR (HK) (talk) 10:10, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Remove Vietnam

Remove sentence that Vietnam has a CMC structure. According to the Vietnam People's Army article, it doesn't. Roadrunner (talk) 07:15, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

It does. --TIAYN (talk) 07:58, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

Tiananmen

Remove this sentence pending a correction:

Three members of the Politburo Standing Committee voted for martial law while two, General Secretary Zhao Ziyang and President Yang Shangkun, voted against it

Yang Shangkun was not a member of the PSC at the time of Tiananmen.

Any discussion on page move?

The page was recently moved from Central Military Commission (People's Republic of China) to Central Military Commission (Communist Party of China). Was this move discussed? Given that the CMC answers to two masters (state and party), and PRC does not necessarily imply a state-based entity, the previous title seems more appropriate. Am I missing something? Homunculus (duihua) 16:37, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

A leader's party position is his "real" position. His state position may correspond to his party position, or it may be just an empty title. But the article title is not the place to attempt an explanation of such party-state complexities. A disambiguator is to allow the reader to easily distinguish among Wiki articles with similar titles. So the title of this article should be something like Central Military Commission (China). CMC answers to two masters? More like, the CMC picks the party boss. As for the state, it is never an independent actor in Chinese politics. Kauffner (talk) 07:22, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes, the article should be at "Central Military Commission (China)", instead. Technically the two CMCs (military and state) are separate, but they are one in the same. Colipon+(Talk) 12:32, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

I assume you mean "Central Military Commission (People's Republic of China)"? Homunculus (duihua) 18:28, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

No, because there is no ambiguity. We only use PRC when there is ambiguity. Colipon+(Talk) 20:33, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Didn't the KMT had a central military commission, or something with a very similar name? That may introduce ambiguity.Homunculus (duihua) 20:51, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

You're talking about the "National Military Council". Sometimes it is rendered "CMC", but in most contexts there is no ambiguity whatsoever. Reminds me of the Vancouver, BC and Vancouver, Washington debate. Colipon+(Talk) 20:54, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

A "(People's Republic of China)" disambiguator would imply that the article is about the state CMC. But the party CMC is the one that counts. It is also a really ugly four-word disambiguator. As a general principle, you don't make the disambiguator longer for no good reason. Kauffner (talk) 01:52, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Fair enough, though we should probably add a note at the top of the page clarifying that it refers to the PRC organization, and directing readers looking for the KMT military council to the appropriate page. Homunculus (duihua) 02:38, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Relationship with Politburo

This isn't true

Under the constitution of the Chinese Communist Party, the CMC is subordinate to the Politburo.

see http://www.china.org.cn/english/congress/229722.htm

Roadrunner (talk) 09:35, 20 November 2012 (UTC)