Talk:Casualties of the Israel–Hamas war

Missing information on some statement's real origin

Under Gaza Strip->Civilians, concerning the last paragraph: "As of 13 May 2024, the U.N. has reported that the 35,000 who have died in the conflict includes 7,797 minors, 4,959 women and 1,924 elderly with confirmed identities. 52% of those killed are women and minors, and 40% are men; the U.N. does not differentiate between combatant and civilian deaths."

There is some information missing (check ref 42 for this, (https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/gaza-war-un-revises-death-toll-women-and-children , just in case the number changes).

The last part cites the UN numbers: "52% of those killed are women and minors, and 40% are men; the U.N. does not differentiate between combatant and civilian deaths."

However, the reference clearly states that the UN clearly relies on the Hamas-run health ministry's numbers, which is a much less trustworthy/legitimate source, considering their direct involvement in the conflict.

This is why I propose rewriting the aforementioned paragraph to something like "As of 13 May 2024, the U.N., relying on numbers published by the Hamas-run Gaza health ministry, has reported..." to make that clear. Teegrube (talk) 17:21, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

I think the numbers the health ministry publishes are pretty reliable. They have been in the past, and even independent investigations have always come to more or less the same numbers as the Hamas-run agencies. (see: https://theweek.com/defence/how-trustworthy-are-the-gaza-health-ministrys-casualty-numbers, https://learningenglish.voanews.com/a/how-reliable-are-gaza-health-ministry-s-death-numbers/7343831.html).

In my personal opinion, I think it is much more likely that the reported number of deaths is less than the actual casualties, especially when thinking about the destruction caused by Israeli attacks, which leads to many bodies not being found. 2A01:599:923:631C:ECEA:B292:5CC2:4CD3 (talk) 07:04, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

See Talk:Israel–Hamas war#"Hamas-run. Sticking in 'Hamas-run' is a propaganda tactic to dehumanize the deaths of Palestinians and the attribution is totally unnecessary. NadVolum (talk) 08:17, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

By the way we have to stick by the 52% because that comes from the best source. But actually the percentages for identified deaths are probably rather wild because people can send in identifications, and a major use for that is so widows can claim support if their husbands have died. I've clarified where it was mention that it refers to identified casualties but not said why that is important. NadVolum (talk) 08:27, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

186,000 dead, not may die

In the current article it says that 186,000 Palestinians may die according to the numbers in the Lancet. However, the text in the Lancet says that 186,000 may be dead, not that they may die in the future. Centurion Ernith (talk) 03:56, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

I don't think that's how it should be interpreted, see the preceding context: Even if the conflict ends immediately, there will continue to be many indirect deaths in the coming months and years [...].

The main discussion is here. — xDanielx ^T/_C\^R 05:53, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

I've also opened a discussion at RSN: Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Counting the dead in Gaza: difficult but essential. Elli (talk | contribs) 02:39, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

The 5% figure in the first sentence is misleading

"At least 5 per cent of the population in Gaza had been killed, severely injured or missing."

https://www.undp.org/sites/g/files/zskgke326/files/2024-05/2400257e-gaza_war-_expected_socioeconomic_impacts-pb.pdf

Is different from what is on the Wikipedia page: "at least 5% of Gaza's population has been killed, maimed or injured."

1. The source is being misquoted.

2. Missing figures should not be so prominent in a page about casualties. Undated (talk) 14:01, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

6,400 people missing for several months, a large percentage undoubtedly under the rubble, valiantly strutting through which the IDF troops complain of the stench, of dogs with arms between their teeth, birds pecking on legs sticking disjointedly out from under collapsed masses of concrete, of road-cleaning IDF bulldozers shovelling them up whenever press or Red Cross visitors are accompanied, to make sure that, dumped on the side under dust and debris, they won't be visible that day, potential eyesores that spoil the Potemkin neatness of the roads burrowing through the jungle of 37 million tons of a wrecked and ransacked world. We are talking about the unburied, who are, in any man's language, casualties.Nishidani (talk) 16:50, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

Because the last missing number reports from PCD (10,000) and MOH (7,000) are now 3 months old, it's impossible to know how many are still missing versus already included in July killed/injured numbers. But the 5% figure is roughly accurate without including missing anyway, depending on the count and pre-war baseline used. Caution re: tone. GordonGlottal (talk) 17:50, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

shortcomings in the reactions and analysis section

The UN analysis is not well represented, i think quotes like this would clarify their assessment of the situation: "The overwhelming nature and scale of Israel’s assault on Gaza and the destructive conditions of life it has inflicted reveal an intent to physically destroy Palestinians as a group. "

"Genocidal acts were approved and given effect following statements of genocidal intent issued by senior military and government officials."

"Israel’s genocide on the Palestinians in Gaza is an escalatory stage of a longstanding settler colonial process of erasure. For over seven decades this process has suffocated the Palestinian people as a group – demographically, culturally, economically and politically –, seeking to displace it and expropriate and control its land and resources."

source: https://www.un.org/unispal/document/anatomy-of-a-genocide-report-of-the-special-rapporteur-on-the-situation-of-human-rights-in-the-palestinian-territory-occupied-since-1967-to-human-rights-council-advance-unedited-version-a-hrc-55/ 84.115.225.35 (talk) 20:36, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Please read 'WARNING: ACTIVE ARBITRATION REMEDIES' at the top of the page. You are only permitted to make a specific edit request for the article, please supply a citation if you do so. NadVolum (talk) 20:58, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

In light of these facts, it is entirely disingenuous to refer to this genocide as "the Israel-Hamas war." The International Court of Justice has ruled the state of Israel has failed to disprove "plausible intent to commit genocide" and ordered Israel immediately cease all attacks upon Gaza and the West Bank in January 2024, which they have not. (https://www.icj-cij.org/node/203454) If the highest international court would call this a plausible genocide instead of a war, why does this article not reflect that? Vovbv (talk) 05:44, 15 July 2024 (UTC)