Talk:Carnifex (band)

Californian deathcore band

These guys are a deathcore band - they play death metal with strong metalcore influences (metalcore breakdowns, melodic death metal-inspired riffs). I don't give a crap if people want to edit it because deathcore is a dirty word in the metal fraternity. I'm editing the article as such. 81.155.30.158 (talk) 21:00, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

The band calls themself death metal, It says so on the Victory Records Webpage and on their Myspace page. You can go ahead and say your opion, but the fact is that they are death metal. SatansMetalHead (talk) 02:40, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

They area a shitty deathcore band. Not death metal, just straight up deathcore. FACT. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.79.2.96 (talk) 04:20, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

nah there deathcore —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.23.117.138 (talk) 20:20, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

They are a deathcore band. Several sources state they are, whch in this case makes it a fact, we don't do what the band says on their MySpace page or whatever. But in the case of their latest album, it has been reported that they draw the lines on black metal and death metal more than what they have done on their first two records, but it still doesn't warrant anything beyond the fact that they are a deathcore band, with it deathcore itself being an extreme metal genre to of which being blended together by several metal genres. If you were to dismantle deathcore you'll have simply death metal and metalcore, if you were to dismantle these two genres, you'll see further what I mean. • GunMetal Angel 03:09, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Call us whatever you want lol. Just don't judge us by whatever label you decide to give us. A lot of bands have given deathcore a bad name and I'm sorry to say we have a few of the songs that contributed to that. We have all of the elements of a deathmetal band. Just sayin ha ha Carnifexdrummer (talk) 02:40, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

I'm guessing Shawn Cameron really has the words of wisdom for his group. No band likes to be called deathcore anyway. Aha. • GunMetal Angel 00:59, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

In that bands are supposed to make music, I've yet to be convinced that deathcore band isn't a contradiction of terms. (;-> They seem to be best at much the same sort of shock-tactic showmanship as goth bands. I bought a guitar from a "professional" goth "musician", who had been playing it for two years. It turned out that the bridge had been installed in the wrong position before it left the factory, but neither she nor the rest of her band nor their audiences had noticed that the guitar was untunable. I guess it she just used it as a sort of stage prop while she danced or sang. You can see more of the story at Talk:Electric guitar#Rosa Hurricane. Andrewa (talk) 15:50, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Travis who?

I've given the full names instead of just the first names for all the band members I could find, but I couldn't find the last name for former member "Travis". Does anybody knows what the guy's last name is? -kotra (talk) 18:20, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

EP and demo

The Carnifex self-titled release was removed from the "EPs" section, because it's actually been comfirmed it's not an EP, but a demo. As for the Love Lies in Ashes EP, could an article for it be necessary? It's hard to go hand-in-hand with that decision especially since not much information can really be found for it due to its obscurity as a release. • GunMetal Angel 22:49, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Half the band is homeless ?

Is there a source for the phrase "December 2007 through January 2008 was spent writing their second album while half of the members of Carnifex were homeless." ? zubrowka74 20:58, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

That's what it says in Revolver. - GunMetal Angel 22:01, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus to move. Vegaswikian (talk) 21:51, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Carnifex (band) → Carnifex — I have discussed this potential move with a fellow editor. The band appears to be the most notable subject of the name on the Carnifex (disambiguation) page. See this discussion and this statement. --Backtable _{Speak to me}^{concerning my deeds.} 22:10, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

• Support, support because Backtable and I had the idea together for the article for the band to only be held under "Carnifex", because for one of the major reasons being there aren't many other pages that ultimately regard "Carnifex" other than just the band, even Google or Bing search results regard virtually nothing but the band. We've chose to hold this requested move in favor of the title for this article being just under "Carnifex" and for everything else, a hatnote can be left on the top of this article for the "Carnifex (disambiguation)" page. • GunMetal Angel 00:37, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose; with four species named carnifex, I don't see the band meeting the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC guidelines. Powers ^T 01:30, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
  • Note: if this move request is rejected, the disambiguation page should be moved back to the base name. Powers ^T 01:31, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose clearly with four species named this way, the word itself would be primary. 65.93.15.80 (talk) 05:24, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose. Three albums, one single, one chart success, no members have been involved in major bands, the band is notable (WP:BAND line 2) but by the slimmest possible margin, no way are they the primary topic. Andrewa (talk) 12:54, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Äúexecutioner?

Is this true that the band's name is derived from this word? Or is this vandalism? RadiumMetal (talk) 01:16, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

A number of notable websites list that particular fact. It's not an act of vandalism. As an example, please view the following link from the official authoritative Bamboozle Festival which Carnifex is currently performing at. Here DeWaine (talk) 02:58, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

There's no such word. Carnifex itself is already a Latin word, borrowed into English meaning executioner or butcher: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/carnifex Old English doesn't use the characters Ä nor ú. This is clearly just a copy paste fail. All the "notable" websites over the web have just copied this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.5.245.39 (talk) 06:15, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

You're right. Can we say it's just a Latin word meaning executioner instead of something called "Äúexecutioner"? Other sites say, like Wiktionary say that carnifex, it's a pure Latin word, and that it's not derived from anything. I'll replace it and put the source next to it. We can't really put stuff down that the band has used, because a lot of music festivals just look stuff up off the band's site and paste it. RadiumMetal (talk) 03:17, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Death metal influences

I added this section once before, but another editor reverted it, claiming that it contained original research. I have re-posted it with several reliable sources from music critics indicating the band's death metal influence on their 2010 album. I understand that this is a controversial issue, but I'd ask that this section not be removed again until a general consensus can be reached on whether or not this is a worthwhile edit to make to the article.

Although I'd agree that Carnifex is first and foremost a deathcore band, they've gradually introduced influences from actual death metal into their music (especially in their last studio album), and I was wondering if that could somehow be worked into the article. I think the infobox should still list the band as deathcore (as that's the band primary genre), but I think it could be helpful to add a section on the band's musical/lyrical style expanding on their initial "pure" deathcore sound as well as the death metal influenced sound found in their later works.

I didn't make the edits myself because I realize that music genres tend to start a lot of Wikipedia edit wars, especially when it involves anything metalcore, so I decided to see what others think first. If other editors agree that this will add to the article rather than detract from it, I'll add a properly cited section about their musical style and direction. Once again, please note that I'm NOT saying that the band is death metal or that death metal should be listed along with deathcore as their genre; I just think that it would be useful to note the band's musical progression in a heavier direction.

Sources:

http://metalreview.com/reviews/5437/carnifex-hell-chose-me

http://www.decoymusic.com/reviews/carnifex-hell-chose-me

http://www.nocleansinging.com/2010/12/21/andy-synns-list-of-the-good-albums-of-2010/

Luvanger666 (talk) 06:38, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

To me the term "deathcore" already implies death metal influences. It would have to drop the hardcore elements to qualify as pure. This quote from your first reference says it all : "...Hell Chose Me rumbles with a direct menacing approach that has less breakdowns than the previous two efforts." That is, it's somewhat less hardcore and more death metal but still is deathcore with all musical element that this implies. zubrowka74 17:10, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Deathcore is not death metal and "hardcore", it is death metal and metalcore.[1][2] The breakdowns may come from the hardcore punk side of metalcore, but the genre (deathcore) itself is death metal and metalcore. GunMetal Angel 03:56, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

Still the same. You are talking stylistic filiation, I'm talking about the musical elements. You take out the hardcore elements from deathcore you now have death metal. Besides, the hardcore part is similar enough in metalcore and deathcore. zubrowka74 19:50, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

Sources re: "death metal"

• James Monger at Allmusic, deathcore
• Tom Doyle at Metal Hammer, deathcore, metalcore
• Merlin at Metal Hammer, death metal
• Merlin at Metal Hammer, deathcore
• Blabbermouth, deathcore, death metal
• Blabbermouth, death metal
• Blabbermouth, death metal
• (Note: there are loads of other Blabbermouth sources, many of which use the term "death metal" but not deathcore, and vice versa)
• Garry Sharpe-Young at MusicMight, death metal, deathcore, metalcore
• Tom Dare reviews Until I Fear Nothing in Terrorizer #217, page 53. He describes it as "ranging from melodic Black Dahlia-type hooky riffs through some furious death metal and even dipping into Dissection-worship".

More can be found, I'm sure. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 16:36, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

As I have said elsewhere, I do not know the band's music, so have no *personal* opinion, but a quick look on the Internet for reliable sources to confirm any supposed "consensus" as to death metal vs. deathcore seems to suggest that no such consensus exists (obviously I'm ignoring webzines, forums etc.). Blackmetalbaz (talk) 16:42, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

Yes, I can see what you mean. However, there are discussions above on this talk page settling on deathcore as you can see above. Second Skin (talk) 17:19, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

I don't see that consensus was established, especially as the one editor most loudly proclaiming that they are definitely one style has been perma-blocked for genre-warring! Blackmetalbaz (talk) 17:22, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

The top section has about four people stating they're deathcore though? Second Skin (talk) 17:27, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

Yes, but without providing any reliable sources! That's no different from four people on a forum stating that they're deathcore and that therefore being accepted! Blackmetalbaz (talk) 17:29, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

Alright, I thought you told me this website works based on sources and consensus, and the consensus seems to be that they're a deathcore band on this talk page. But ok. Anyway, I think it's just safe to imply that Blabbermouth at this point just calls all deathcore "death metal" to avoid generalizing into some overly in-depth category. Thus they don't really seem to be a valid source for these kinds of bands. Not entirely sure why saying something like "The American death metal band Emmure just posted some tour dates below, you can check them out here" would automatically constitute as Emmure being a death metal band by this statement. Second Skin (talk) 17:33, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia does indeed work by building consensus, but as with the term "reliable" it has a very specific meaning here - and that means forming a consensus between editors based on the sources available, not on the opinions of the editors! Blabbermouth passes WP:RS, rendering a personal opinion of its accuracy irrelevant, and we certainly can't infer anything about shorthands they may be using. If a significant number of journalists refer to the band as "death metal" then it should be included, and there isn't anything really any more complicated than that. It's how WP has worked for years to avoid POV issues that seem to *dog* genre arguments. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 17:42, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

And no, a solitary reference from Blabbermouth calling Emmure death metal wouldn't be sufficient. But if you found five or six, then it most definitely would. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 17:43, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

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Quote in the Lyrics section

Should be deleted for three reasons: it's not attributed to anyone, it's repetitive, and it's not cited. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dingleberryoflove (talk • contribs) 00:20, 24 January 2017 (UTC)

"Slow Death" dedicated article

Why doesn't "Slow Death" have it's own dedicated article yet? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Metalheadgamer (talk • contribs) 13:49, 31 March 2018 (UTC)

Its* Second Skin (talk) 01:35, 20 November 2022 (UTC)