Talk:Carmen Carrera

Transgender Issue

Although artcicle clains that Carrera has identified himself as a transgender, it was not from his own mouth (read author's name). He has made no public declaration (e.g. on his website. personal interview, etc.) that he should be addressed as a female. Changing one's gender takes plenty of legal circles, and due to the ability of editors on this site to make changes (many positive, others not) in order to avoid libel, a first person declaration from Carrera himself should be sufficient and valid enough to make any claims that he be addressed and treated as a female. He remains a female impersonator and I have Googled his name looking for any valid references to validate a change in gender change with no success. Until a valid source can be found (again first person - Carerra's official site is presently down), please do not alter the article to reflect any baseless claims with regards to altering his gender addressing/pronouns. --XLR8TION (talk) 02:54, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

I understood your point on the Sharon Needles article (I was actually going to use male pronouns when I rewrote the article, but pretty much every source was referring to Needles "in universe" as female, so I went against my better judgement on that page). However, ABC News is one of the "gold standard" sources we look for on Wikipedia – If they're reporting that Carrera has officially "come out" as transgendered, then we can pretty much take it to the bank that it's true, without any libel concerns (if ABC News says Carrera has announced that she's transgendered, then I honestly don't have any doubts that it's true). This news story was apparently just posted yesterday, so it's not a big surprise that a Google search doesn't turn up many other sources confirming this yet (although fans of Drag Race know who Carrera is, she's not exactly an "A-list" celebrity that's going to make headline news). Knowing several transgendered people, I can say that being transgendered is something that operates more on an "honor system", rather than people waiting for official "legal documentation" from the government before acknowledging someone as female, so I would suggest we reword the pronouns of the article to be respectful of Carrera's status as a transgendered female and put something at the end of the lead of the article like – "On May 1, 2012, ABC News reported that Carrera had revealed that she is transgender." – in order to avoid any confusion for the reader before they begin reading the rest of the article. --- Crakkerjakk (talk) 17:25, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

• • Thank you for your opinion. Would it make more sense for the episode to officially air before making any changes to gender pronouns. Although I agree with you about ABC's integrity, there are certain networks such as the notorious FOX News Channel, where facts are not checked and where journalism associations have rated as one of the biggest violators of journalistic integrity. In that same report, ABC ranked second worst. I will try to find article where this is discussed, but in the meantime since the episode has not aired and Carrera's site is presently down, I think there should be a wait before any action is taken.--XLR8TION (talk) 17:38, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

I would honestly go ahead and mention it in the lead of the article. Since ABC News is under the same "umbrella" as the ABC network (which is the network that is going to air the show on Friday), it would basically be waiting for ABC to confirm itself. I'm not aware of ABC News ranking badly for their accuracy, but, as you mentioned, reports of someone being "gay" or "transgendered" would be considered highly libelous if untrue (rather than just spelling someone's name wrong, or getting their birthday wrong, etc), so I just can't imagine a scenario where ABC News would report that Carrera had announced that she was transgendered without thoroughly verifying it first. As I said, I think if we simply mention that ABC News has reported it, then Wikipedia would be free of any libel concerns (even if by some freak accident, the story were revealed to be untrue, having simply stated that ABC News had reported it would still be true, regardless). --- Crakkerjakk (talk) 17:51, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

Update: I see the article has been re-edited to female pronouns (I understand where you're coming from, but I agree with the editor that it is commonly viewed to be an insult to continue to refer to a self-declared trans female as "he"), so I went ahead and added a clear outline regarding the reports of Carrera's gender identity to the lead. Many in the LGBT community implicitly understand when they're told someone is "transgendered" and the person is subsequently referred to as "she" that this means that they are a male-to-female trans individual, but it can still be an extremely confusing subject for the average "mainstream" reader, so we really need to lay it out clearly in the lead – before the reader continues on with the rest of article. I also noticed there are several sources cited within the article which don't meet Wikipedia's criteria for reliable sources (such as the links to Gawker and IMDB, which are basically the same as having no source), so we really need to replace those reflinks with better ones (viewers of the series know the claims are true, but there are some editors who are sticklers for the rules and may come along try and remove the sources as well as the associated text passage(s) from the article later on down the line if these sources aren't replaced). I personally can't stand Carmen Carrera, so I honestly don't have the inclination to spend a night researching her to find better sources, but hopefully someone else can replace them. I believe the Logo website provides episode synopsis and I know Entertainment Weekly also provides a fairly thorough synopsis for each episode, so those reflinks shouldn't be too difficult to replace. --- Crakkerjakk (talk) 07:10, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

• Long time user of wikipedia, first time doing anything close to editing, so bear with me if I make any mistakes. I feel the the first line of the personal life section could be interpreted as saying most of the contestants of Rupaul's Drag Race eventually reveal themselves as transgender, when, while all the contestants on the show have been openly gay, Carmen is only the second one to reveal herself as transgender, the first being Sonique. I understand that may not have been the intent when it was written. As I haven't learned all the citing rules yet, I feel uncomfortable editing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Whitney0820 (talk • contribs) 09:41, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

You're right. I didn't catch that when I read it, but I see what you mean. I've changed the wording to be clear. Thanks for pointing it out. --- Crakkerjakk (talk) 16:19, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

She calls herself a trans woman on her YouTube channel. — Chameleon 09:36, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

Birth Name

The use of birth names for trans people on wikipedia appears to vary based on whether they were publicly known and notable under that name. Caitlyn Jenner's article states her birth name, because she was well known and famous under that name. Laverne Cox's doesn't, because she was never notable under her birth name. This is the case with Carrera, so I don't see why it's relevant to mention her birth name, especially in bold. 60.240.136.168 (talk) 23:18, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

She came to fame pre-transition, and openly talks of her own birth name^ref, so there's no outing issues. It's only mentioned in the same context (and formatting) as any other person's name change, so there's no undue weight (though I've been meaning to rewrite her history section, to include that there instead of the lede as preferred by WP:TRANSNAME). --Xanzzibar (talk) 02:25, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

Carrera has tweeted requests directly to Wikipedia that her deadname no longer be used on her Wiki page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SarahBear81 (talk • contribs) 02:30, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

• Xanzzibar, have you figured out a way to put her birth name in the body of the article rather than the lead sentence? Every attempt I've made has just been awkward. As SarahBear81 noted above, Carrerra has complained about the use of her birth name in the article. One of the issues with including her birth name in the body is the lack of utility. In her appearance on RuPaul's Drag Race she introduced herself as her birth name but performed under her stage name, "Carmen Carrerra", she was also commonly known, pre-transition, under her stage name rather than her birth name. Personally, given Carmen's personal views on the topic, and the fact that she was not commonly known as Christopher Roman pre-transition, I'd be comfortable removing her birth name from the article entirely. Cjhard (talk) 02:54, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

Publishing transgender people's birth names is, at its heart, transphobic and abusive. For the trans person, it is a triggering reminder of a past they don't wish to recall. In general, it is disrespectful. More insidiously, it opens the door to abuse, identity theft, misgendering and violence.

For a trans person, seeing their birth name is almost a guarantee of anxiety or even a worsening of dysphoric symptoms. Those symptoms are associated with high rates of suicide and the extremely high rate at which at which trans feminine people in particular are murdered.

In addition to these moral and ethical issues, Ms. Carrera herself has requested via twitter that her former name be redacted from her Wikipedia page. SarahBear81 (talk) 02:58, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

I agree with Cjhard. I don't usually like removing properly sourced information, but I haven't found a way to note it in the body way that doesn't seem like it's just putting her deadname out there just for the sake of it; it wasn't really what she was known by at that point even if it was known; and whatever her past openness about it might have been, it obviously bothers her now. So, probably best to just lose it. --Xanzzibar (talk) 03:37, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

So if OJ Simpson is bothered by the fact he is listed as a murderer we have to remove those references? I thought this was an encyclopedia, not a personal blog.174.0.48.147 (talk) 15:12, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

The OJ Simpson trial was a high-profile event (and Simpson was acquitted). Carrera's early life was not. Not comparable at all. --Sangdeboeuf (talk) 21:17, 15 October 2021 (UTC)