Talk:Caren Turner

Photo

I might be able to get a picture of her. Geraldshields11 (talk) 14:21, 8 July 2014 (UTC) : I added photo. Geraldshields11 (talk) 13:23, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

The photo was removed due to concerns over fair use on Wikimedia Commons even though I got a letter from the subject releasing copyright. Geraldshields11 (talk) 13:47, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

Request for Semi-protection

In Real Life, the subject of the article was threatened with possible article deletion. Geraldshields11 (talk) 13:47, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

requested semi-protection as of January 10, 2017. Geraldshields11 (talk) 13:48, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

As explained on RFPP, this protection was denied. RickinBaltimore (talk) 14:13, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

Aftermath. Did she learn?

Reference 25, quoting her released statement. States "I encourage the Tenafly Police Department to review best practices with respect to tone and de-escalation, so that incidents like this do not recur". I think this is the most telling part of what her state of mind about the incident is. She insists her actions were the result of deficiencies in how the police officers handled the situation. I believe that directly follows from the stating that incidents like this does not recur with proper tone and de-escalation.

Removed vandalism

Removed poop on this talk page. Derek M (talk) 03:28, 26 April 2018 (UTC)

Behavior towards Police

Why has this page not been updated with something that has made more famous than anything else she has ever done?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/caren-turner-port-authority-new-york-new-jersey-video-cursing-police-officers/

More information on Caren Turner's abuse of position:

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2018/04/port_authority_commissioner_abruptly_resigns_in_wa.html

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2018/04/who_is_caren_turner_and_how_did_she_become_the_sta.html

It has been. ―StvnW ^talk 18:23, 26 April 2018 (UTC)

The edit to remove web link is incorrect

The site is responding, albeit responding due to a force change on the server. The server specifically has to provide the 403 error. It is not down, and the link should be reinstated. When the domain fails to resolve, it should be removed. Likely, the server .htaccess file has specifically been altered due to the recent bad publicity. Nacman 01 (talk) 04:19, 27 April 2018 (UTC)

Here is the latest web archive of the website before it went down: https://web.archive.org/web/20180315100238/http://www.turnergpa.com Derek M (talk) 04:28, 27 April 2018 (UTC)

The Tenefly Police Dept Incident Data Sheet dated 03/31/2018

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4447015/Tenafly-Police-Report-Port-Authority-commissioner.pdf as cited in https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/new-jersey/2018/04/25/tenafly-police-report-traffic-stop-routine-until-pa-commissioner-arrived-shut-f-up/550663002/ lists Caren Turner as an ″involved person″--″mother″, and lists 3 summonses to the driver: Unclear Plate, Failure to Exhibit Current Insurance Card, and Unregistered MV. Tinted Windows were mentioned as a basis for the stop, but no summons was issued for that, apparently due to the mentioned "Touring Privileges". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.211.204.66 (talk) 06:47, 28 April 2018 (UTC)

Does this person meet Wikipedia standards for a biography?

It seems that this person’s only notoriety is for bad behavior in a single incident. Her political connections and local government positions are not in themseves noteworthy. I’m by no means well-versed on this criteria, and I’d be happy to learn what others may think. Edokin (talk) 01:19, 15 November 2018 (UTC)

• Yes While WP:BLP1E would suggest that the police incident should not merit a BLP if that is the only thing she is known for, her public comments as a fundraiser and activist prior to the incident establish a second point of notability, thereby cresting BLP1E. Because many of these comments are more than single quotes (such as Reuters here [1]), but in fact mid-length coverage of her statements and actions (e.g. three paragraphs in USA Today here [2]), all them in totality would suggest she is notable and known for something beyond the police incident. Neither her activism nor her police interaction is enough to warrant a WP article by itself but, together, pass the BLP1E threshold by establishing a pattern of multiple (two) points of notability. Chetsford (talk) 04:31, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
• I think Chetsford is correct. Drmies (talk) 04:14, 16 November 2018 (UTC)

Proposed Deletion

Suggesting deletion of biography. "articles for deletion" (AFD) (talk) 12:26, 15 November 2018 (UTC)

• Razster, that's at WP:AFD, but I don't think you'll have much luck there. Drmies (talk) 04:13, 16 November 2018 (UTC)

Why isn't her Jewish ethnicity mentioned?

Wikipedia always seems to mention Jewishness on biography pages - but only if the optics are 'good'.

This person is Jewish and even mentions her kids Jewishness in the video which made her famous. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.67.195.202 (talk) 08:59, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

WP:UNDUE

I think there's a very strong claim that this is a textbook instance of WP:UNDUE weight being attached to her tertiary involvement in a traffic stop wherein her daughter had an out-of-state registration and it takes up more than half the article. If there's no opposition from established editors within five days, I'll move to shorten the section to some variation of "In 2018 New Jersey police released the footage of an incident wherein Turner confronted police who had impounded a relative's vehicle for lack of insurance and current registration tags. Turner had told the officers she was "a friend of the mayor" and insisted on being referenced as "Commissioner" by the officers, while asking the officers to explain their decision. Turner later apologised for her behavior and resigned from the Port Authority board, after facing fierce criticism for her intervention.". If there is opposition from established editors, I'll suggest we take it to WP:BLP for some arbitration on the issue.

I have zero connection to Turner, or New York/Jersey, I am not even from the United States - this is just a case of Wikipedia unfortunately contributing to the pillorying of a BLP over a minor incident that, had it not been for Youtube, would not have registered even a sentence in a newspaper. Mostcommonphraseongoogle (talk) 01:15, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose. UNDUE generally describes giving more weight than warranted to fringe viewpoints or minor incidences. This is not a fringe viewpoint. And, while it might be a minor incident in the grand panoply of news, it was not a minor incident in the life of Caren Turner, as it led to her receiving more media coverage than the rest of her career did combined, it led to her resignation from the highest appointed office she held, and it resulted in the enactment of new legislation in New Jersey. An RS also named the incident one of the "twelve biggest news moments of 2018" in the state of New Jersey. While this does take up a large portion of the article, DUE/UNDUE is not measured by word count. The word count present is that which is necessary to fairly and accurately communicate the complexity and nuance of the situation. Chetsford (talk) 02:01, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

Terms like "with the New Jersey Star Ledger writing that she was "unencumbered by clue" while a commentator for the Today Show described her as having "all the tact and manners of a zoo animal at feeding time.", have no place in the article and certainly do not help "communicate the complexity and nuance of the situation"...not that there is any complexity or nuance to the situation, which is exactly my point. The news rated the VIRAL VIDEO one of the biggest moments in NJ, not the fact somebody had license plate tags out of date or that their mother tried to intervene. This is a BLP, not an article about a vial video - and it doesn't matter how viral the video went...it doesn't deserve to be more than 50% of a BLP if it's not jumping over the Grand Canyon on a minibike. Mostcommonphraseongoogle (talk) 06:22, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

We'll have to agree to disagree. Welcome to WP, in any case. Chetsford (talk) 01:43, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose. This is documentation of a viral incident that led to legislation. It has implications for the use of body cameras and about abuse of authority. The subject's apology appears appropriately. I also cannot stomach calling these events a "tertiary involvement in a traffic stop". What does "tertiary" help here, except someone's spin. The word confuses. I also have doubts noticing you'd feature more savory (at least least derisive) quotes by the subject (you pick "a friend of the mayor" and "commissioner" when in fact she also said "shut the fuck up" and said they had "ruined PHD student days" because they "couldn't put a sentence together"). We are not here to misrepresent the nature of the viral video, which appears to be more abusive than you let on. You'd pick choice quotes, but somehow miss the most disturbing ones. Odd. Finally, your own editing history does not suggest a deeply committed Wikipedian. Shows up with a sparkly spin. No, I cannot accept your good faith credentials. This is reasonable coverage of a viral event that had both political and legal implications. This woman may have done exceptional things in her life, to the benefit of many. She also did this, which evoked outrage on a wide scale. We do explain such events on Wikipedia, in language that isn't tepid or misleading. Mcfnord (talk) 22:12, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

I think that might come down to a difference of how we weigh things; I would consider myself to have chosen the MOST DAMNING quotes she made, not the least. Why does it matter that she said the f-word or boasted that her daughter is getting a PhD? Is that really encyclopedic? You call "Shut the fuck up" to be "the most disturbing" part of the affair? Instead what matters is her attempt to leverage her political position in exchange for a favour - which I support including. Also, how about not newbie-baiting as a general guideline, hm? That said, I agree with most of your recent edits to improve the article; more is still needed of course, but a good start. Mostcommonphraseongoogle (talk) 23:18, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

She may be a friend of the mayor, she may have said so, and she may have insisted she be addressed using her title. She might also merit the honorary title of Commissioner when addressed by police. It's using her position to claim authority to abuse these people that is more contemptable. If the video only showed her insisting she should be called commissioner, I don't think it would have gone viral. If instead a commissioner abuses people for impounding a vehicle operating with expired tabs, perhaps because she feels entitled to due to her position, that's another level. What matters is why the video went viral, why it led to her removal from authority, and what about it led to legislative changes. Was it that she claimed authority, or that she abused authority? Mcfnord (talk) 00:14, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

Perhaps I'm not explaining myself well - personally I agree with you, it was (attempting to) abuse her authority. That's why I'd rather focus on that, instead of on things like "stfu"; the abuse of authority is the only thing notable about the video, being rude is not notable. Mostcommonphraseongoogle (talk) 13:41, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

I understand your position, but can't agree. Abuse of authority isn't claiming that you have authority. It's using your authority for devious purposes. Mcfnord (talk) 16:25, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

Lede

This lede goes off the rails. There's no reason to cover the subject's career with such breadth and depth in the lede. I'm all for key details but this is nuts. Her Career can be handled in depth in the Career section, perhaps with a summary in the lede, along with just one or two details of the video there. We also must reserve only our most well-established facts for the lede, well-established in both accuracy and significance. Mcfnord (talk) 22:30, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

I've trimmed it considerably, but what about her career is noteworthy? Perhaps she's noteworthy for a single event? If so, she might not merit a page here, while the incident might. However, I can't reconcile that with the fact she was noteworthy for being a commissioner before this incident occurred. Mcfnord (talk) 00:20, 12 July 2020 (UTC)