Talk:Capitulation of Tainan

Un-revelant

Thank you K kc chan for your editing. But there has been some mis-understanding here. Liu Yung-fu was yes, indeed the military commander of Taiwan or "Formosa" as you like to put it, but so was Qiu Fengjia, if you belive this is un-true then you should see for yourself. [1]

If you are still not convinced: [2], [3]. I thank you for your contribution but there is no need to delete everything that is existing. This can be viewed as vandalism by some people. Please feel free to contribute, but please do not delete everyone elses hard work.

I have reverted some, and left some of your contributions. Thank you Fattyjwoods ([[User [talk:Fattyjwoods|talk]]) 07:13, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

I do not know where you got some of your information from but nowhere could I find that the Japanese landed in Fangliao and Budai, so I have reverted it back to Jilong, in which there is many references. [4] Thank you, Fattyjwoods (talk) 07:35, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

I believed that, since the name of this article is Siege of Tainan, the content should orient around the siege, such as the disposition, the proceeding of battle, and short term and long term effect of the battle and such. The original content, however, focused on the war of which this particular event is a part of, and gives almost no information regarding the siege. If you really feel that it is necessary to include such information, please put in under the background section.

And, of course, I do know about the landing at 基隆, which is romanized as Keelung. However, the landing is roughly four months prior to the siege of Tainan, and I do not think it has too much of effects on the course of the siege. I am surprised that you have never heard of the landing at Budai and Fangliao, which, as I would assume, is well known among the Taiwanese. I hope you can understand the Chinese language, as most of my sources are in this language and I do not know your nationality.

Also, as the issue of Taiwan remains controversial, wouldn't it be better to refer to the resident of Taiwan at that time the local residents? I personally found the assertion those who fought against the Japanese are "Chinese citizens" somewhat uncomfortable, but I do not wish to use the term "Taiwanese" as it may offend other Chinese users on WikiPedia, therefore I think it would be better to use a term that is more neutral.

Furthermore, I did not choose the name of "Formosa" to be used in place of "Taiwan", please do not make it sounds like I prefer that name. That name was chosen by the creator of the article of Republic of Formosa to avoid offending the Chinese WikiPedians, as the Chinese WikiPedians often find terms such "Taiwanese" offensive.

In addition, Qiu Fengjia, or Chiu Feng-jia, was named the commander of the militias all over the island, but he held very little control over those units due to their autonomous status. However, I did included him as a leader of Republic of Formosa on the Japanese Invasion of Taiwan (1895) article.

--K kc chan (talk) 08:34, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Also, I do not have any information about Chiu or Qiu being in command in Tainan at the time of the siege. If you have links to such information, please let me know. Until then, his name should not appear on the Commander column in the info box. I think he was already in China by the time the Japanese were sieging the city. --K kc chan (talk) 08:38, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Please take a look at the links I have left you. [5]. and also the links above. And also could you not delete everything that i have put. We can discuss this further on the talk page instead of you deleting all the work I have put in. And, for your information, yes I am Taiwanese, as my grandfather served in the Chinese revolution and fled to Taiwan, and was also living in Jilong at the time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fattyjwoods (talk • contribs) 22:49, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

I think you have completely misunderstood what I meant. I was concerned that the content of this article, which you wrote, is basically a brief description of the war rather than this particular battle. Also, nowhere could I find any information that indicate Chiu/Qiu being in command in Tainan when the siege took place. The only commander of the city I could identify was Liu, since it is being said that he fled the city two days prior to the end of siege, meaning he was actually in the city when the siege began. If you can find any information/link that indicates Chiu/Qiu being in command of the city of Tainan at the time of the siege, namely October 1895, I would happily agree with you. Just so you know, my late grandfather and his father were also from Keelung.

--K kc chan (talk) 03:24, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Ok, Im sorry, I have removed Qiu Fengjis from the article. But I don't understand why you think that the article that I wrote was not about the siege. Which part do you not agree with? If the beginning is removed people will have no idea why the Japanese attacked. By the way if you want I can give you a link which proves that the Japanese indeed did land in Jilong or Keelung. Fattyjwoods (talk) 03:49, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Um, One thing, your “sources” don’t seem to work. Also my "sources do prove that the force that landed at Jilong did in fact attack Tainan. Fattyjwoods (talk) 04:15, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you meant. I have never question that there was a landing at 基隆. In fact, 基隆 was taken to be used as a supply base by the Japanese throughout the course of the war, which makes your argument correct because the whole Japanese invasion forces landed there, either during or after the Battle of Keelung. My point is, your original content:

When the Sino-Japanese War of 1894-1895 ended, the Qing government signed the humiliating Treaty of Shimonoseki, ceding Taiwan and the Penghu Islands to Japan. The Chinese living on Taiwan resented to their land being taken over by the Japanese as the Japanese were considered an inferior race by the Chinese. After the Japanese Empire settled into Taiwan, the Chinese citizens unsuccessfully tried to revolt against the new settlers, the first of which occurred in Tainan in which Chinese generals (Qiu Fengjia and Liu Yongfu) refused to surrender to the Japanese. The generals proclaimed Tainan and Kaohsiung as second Republics of Taiwan. This effort turned out as a failure and the Japanese lay siege to Tainan on October 21, 1895. Originally landing in Jilong on May 30, 1895, it had taken the Japanese only five months to destroy Tainan and successfully colonize Taiwan.

first, it talks about the treaty, then it talks about the tension between the Japanese and Qing Empire, then, finally, the war. The only part where is says about Tainan became the target of a siege is the last part, where it says that the capitulation of Tainan ended the war. My concern, is that there are too much background information and too little about the siege. I think it will confuse people who have little knowledge about this war, for 80% of the article covers the background, while 20% talks about the siege (the actual siege itself). It's like writing an article for the Battle of Midway, but spend 80% of the time talk about the Japanese invasions all over Asia, the U.S. oil embargo, the Pearl Harbor, then finally the battle itself. I admit that remove your work is probably not the best thing to do, and I apologize for that. If you feel that it is absolutely necessary to include those information, I propose that let's put it under something like "Prelude" or "Background"

Last thing, can you elaborate on why the source I provided does not work? I mean, whether you cannot access it or disagree with the content?

--K kc chan (talk) 06:35, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Oh no sorry, its just it the page didnt work the other day. It works now for some reason. Must of been the server. Well ok I admit I might of been I little off track, but Ill make a subheading for it. Do you mind if I do it later, I don't have time right at the moment, you can do it if you would like to. Fattyjwoods (talk) 02:00, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Not at all. I myself is currently involved in some other projects as well. If i have time, I'll try to dig out some more sources, too.

--K kc chan (talk) 20:29, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

links that needs to be incorporated into this article

Natinoal Taiwan Museum - 黃虎旗的故事

--K kc chan (talk) 18:48, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure, but I think this link might be quiet helpful to this article.--Jerrch 02:37, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

right then, thanks I'll do that - if you wont. Fattyjwoods (talk) 23:33, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

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