Talk:Cantiones sacrae (Schütz)/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Tim riley (talk · contribs) 18:01, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

Declaration of interest by reviewer: For the record, I have collaborated with the nominator on other musical articles, but Schütz is well before my period, and I come to this review with no preconceptions or agenda.

A few comments:

• History
  • "it is based on psalms … and Bernard of Clairvaux" – perhaps "…and the works of Bernard of Clairvaux" or some such?
    • "the works" wouldn't work, I used "passages" as in the source, but in a different position. -GA
  • "significantly designed for intimate and private devotion" – it is usual to have an inline citation for a direct quotation such as this, and at GAN I think it is mandatory.
    • done -GA
  • "forty pieces at age forty" – but in the lead you have 40 rather than forty.
    • changed all to forty -GA
• Collection
  • back from forty to 40 again
    • changed -GA
  • "numbers 53 to 93 in the SWV" – you ought, I think, to explain this abbreviation, on the lines of "… in the SWV (Schütz-Werke-Verzeichnis, the catalogue of his complete works)"
    • explanation in the lead, where SWV appears first -GA
• Composition
  • "The counterpoint of Cantiones has been regarded as 'superlative…'" – don't be coy: tell us who so regards it
    • yes -GA
  • "And don't despise the one" – as the Latin does not contain any contractions (as far as my 1960s schoolboy Latin can tell) I think the English translation ought not to either, and should be "do not" rather than "don't"
    • yes -GA
  • "What have You done, o sweetest boy?" – I know it is usual to use capitals for any reference to God, but this looks rather odd. If a capital for "You" then why not one for "boy"?
    • because the source says so -GA
      • Hmmm. Fair enough. Tim riley talk 21:06, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
  • SWV 63–62 – Have the numbers gone awry here? 63–62 is an odd number-range.
    • how right you are -GA
  • "Song of Solomon … Song of Solomon … Song of Songs". Looks odd. May I suggest inverting it, something on these lines: "This group is based on verses from the Song of Songs: Ego dormio, et cor meum vigilat (I sleep, but my heart waketh (5:2) and Vulnerasti cor meum, filia charissima (Thou hast ravished my heart (4:9)." (Not sure where the "h" comes from in "charissima" but a quick Google suggests that it is right.)
    • I like to use the wikisource template which says "Song of Solomon", while the article is "Song of Songs". Can you help? - Actually it might good to have both names for the same together, for readers who may know one or the other. -GA
      • Put like that, I accept unreservedly. Tim riley talk 21:06, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
  • "Consider, Father, your most pious son" – if you are following the English convention of capitalising refs to the Almighty, I think "your" and "son" should be capped.
    • again: as the source has it. -GA
  • "three verses which ask to singing and playing for the Lord" – ask can't be the right verb here. Perhaps "allude"? Not certain.
    • what can I say for the imperatives "cantate" (Sing!) etc.? "Allude" is way to week, even "ask" seems not strong enough. -GA
      • Oh, I see! What about "three verses bidding the faithful to sing and play for the Lord"? Or "three verses bidding mankind to sing and play for the Lord"? Or "three verses bidding humanity to sing and play for the Lord"? Would one of those work?
• Publication and recordings
  • "Breitkopf & Haertel" – even in das Land ohne Musik we know of the firm, and we give Härtel its umlaut.
    • done -GA

Those are my few comments. If you care to address them we can take matters forward. – Tim riley talk 18:01, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

Back from an unplanned short trip, I am pleased to see this started, will look later, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:29, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for good observations, mostly followed and commented "-GA", - please check, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:38, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

Happy with all your replies above. Over to you (but at your service on talk pages if wanted) in re the "singing and playing" wording or any other tweaking. Tim riley talk 21:06, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

Overall summary

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

1. Is it reasonably well written?

   A. Prose quality:

   B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists:

2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?

   A. References to sources:

   Well referenced.

   B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:

   Well referenced.

   C. No original research:

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. Major aspects:

   B. Focused:

4. Is it neutral?

   Fair representation without bias:

5. Is it stable?

   No edit wars, etc:

6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?

   A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:

   Well illustrated.

   B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:

   Well illustrated.

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

A lovely article, which almost makes me want to hear the piece. Brava! Tim riley talk 21:06, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

Thank you, very kind! You will probably not hear the piece but one or the other part of it, - we just sang Cantate Domino for Easter, which made me interested in the topic. Help with phrasing: Cantate bids any listener to sing, - I am not happy with desribing that as "mankind", - help? - We will sing more Schütz this year, so there may be more to come ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:25, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

I think you have the right phrasing there: "three verses bidding every listener to sing and play for the Lord" or, perhaps slightly better, "three verses bidding everybody who hears them to sing and play for the Lord". I am duly chastised for thinking of "the piece", rather than its constituent parts, and I will go and listen via Naxos's online streaming service. Tim riley talk 21:43, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

Good wording for the three verses, thank you! Cantate Domino is sparkling, the four voices entering with a triad theme on four consecutive beats, then coloraturas ... --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:59, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

Moved to Cantiones sacrae (Schütz)

Two recent recordings of the Gesualdo 1603 collection justified creation of a stub at Cantiones sacrae (Gesualdo) and a dab page. In ictu oculi (talk) 05:03, 22 July 2014 (UTC)