Talk:Cambodian–Vietnamese War/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Hchc2009 (talk • contribs • count) 06:27, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

I'll have a good read of the article and do the review over this weekend. Hchc2009 (talk) 06:27, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

Apologies for the slowness of my reviewing - final bits are below, but it's looking almost there. Nicely done. Hchc2009 (talk) 16:50, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

I think that's everything - will mark up as GA in a sec - nicely done. Hchc2009 (talk) 16:25, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

1. Well-written:

(a) the prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct;

Some thoughts listed below:

Lead:

• "fought within the geopolitical context of the Cold War" - could you just say "fought during the Cold War"?
• "The war began with limited objective campaigns along the land and maritime boundaries " - is there an alternative to saying "limited objective campaigns"? A non-military reader may not make much sense of the phrase.
• "an Indochinese federation with themselves" - I'd say "with Vietnam" here, as it could be misread.

Fixed.Canpark (talk) 10:28, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

Background:

• "influence over Cambodia as early as the Angkor civilization" - worth linking Angkor civilisation; if there was a way of clarifying in the text whether the Angkor civilisation was Vietnamese or Cambodian, that would be ideal.

I replaced that sentence with "Angkor, the seat of the [[Khmer Empire],] was subjected to Vietnamese influence as early as the thirteenth century".Canpark (talk) 10:28, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

• "In 1813, Nak Ong Chan gained the Cambodian throne" - again, worth linking Nak Ong Chan

Unfortunately there is no article on Nak Ong Chan.Canpark (talk) 10:28, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

I'd red-link him - he's bound to be notable. Hchc2009 (talk) 16:49, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

• "Cambodia became a protectorate (Ibid)." - A stray "ibid".

Fixed.Canpark (talk) 10:28, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

• " the Khmer culture" - first time Khmer culture is mentioned, so worth saying "Cambodia's Khmer culture" or something like that

to erase Khmer culture, which had derived the basis of Cambodian society, dress and religion from India rather than China.Canpark (talk) 10:28, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

• "what would be Saigon" - "would later be Saigon..."?

Fixed.Canpark (talk) 10:28, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

• "Attempts to regain this territory later became the justification for border incursions committed " - do you mean that the attempts became the justification for the incursion, or that the border incursions were justified as attempts to regain the territory? I think you probably mean the latter."Canpark (talk) 10:28, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

Not sure if this make sense: "The Khmer Rouge later justified their incursions into Vietnam as an attempt to regain the territories which Cambodia lost during the previous centuries.Canpark (talk) 10:31, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

Fixed.Canpark (talk) 10:28, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

• "During this time, Vietnamese forces greatly used Cambodian territory" - "forces used Cambodian territory extensively"?

Fixed.Canpark (talk) 10:28, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

• "The leftist vacuum Vietnam left in its wake in Cambodia" - the "leftist vacuum" assumes the reader knows that the communists were left-wing; is there an easier way of describing this?

I don't get this sentence either. The background was actually written by a different editor, and I left it as it is. The best I could do is rewriting it like this:"The power vacuum the Vietnamese communists left in its wake in Cambodia was soon filled by the return of a young group of Cambodian communist revolutionaries".Canpark (talk) 10:28, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

• That would work for me.Hchc2009 (talk) 16:49, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

• "In 1960, the KPRP changed its name to the Kampuchean Communist Party (KCP), which was later adopted by the majority coalition that formed around Saloth Sar (Pol Pot), Ieng Sary and Khieu Samphan as the ‘true’ date memorialising the KCP." - this sentence threw me a bit - it wasn't clear that the "which" referred to the date, rather than the name.

The "which" actually refers to the name, so I tweaked it like this:"In 1960, the KPRP changed its name to the Kampuchean Communist Party (KCP), and the name was later adopted by the majority coalition that formed around Saloth Sar (Pol Pot), Ieng Sary and Khieu Samphan as the ‘true’ political institution memorialising the KCP."Canpark (talk) 10:28, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

• " it embodied the communist branch most influenced by Maoist doctrine" - surely the clique was a communist branch? I'm not sure a branch can be embodied either. How about "the clique was heavily influenced by Maoist doctrine", or a phrase like that?

How does this sound?>"This clique became the genesis of the Khmer Rouge, and its doctrine was heavily influenced by the Maoist ideology.Canpark (talk) 10:28, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

Diplomacy and military action:

• "which they claimed was part of Kampuchea’s sovereignty" > "sovereignty" > "territory"?
• " ‘U.S. bombing’ " - worth putting this in double speech marks to make clear its a quote.
• "reinforcing the Kampuchean’s fictitious claim of the incident" - didn't quite read right to me. "...fictitious claims over the incident."? "...fictitious claims."?
• "Militant Solidarity and Friendship between Peoples of Democratic Kampuchea and the Socialist Republic of Vietnam Grow Constantly Greener and Sturdier" - I'm not sure this needs to be in italics. Does it need the capital letters?
• "sent greetings to the Vietnamese Communist Party on the occasion " - "on the occasion" sounded odd. "sent greetings to the Vietnamese Communist Party during..."?
• "the leadership of both countries began to be overcome by their distrust of each other." - the last bit reads odd. "the private suspicions of both countries' leadership grew."?
• "‘genuine’" - if it's a quote, you'll need to attribute, but I'm not convinced you need the speech marks here.
• "a seething hatred and fear" - I'd have gone for "seething fear and hatred", but that might just be me!
• "with Vietnamese-trained individuals" - "individuals" - read oddly. "agents"? "sympathisers"?
• "‘temporarily’" - double speech marks.
• "our 6 January victory over the annexationist, Vietnamese aggressor enemy has given all of us greater confidence in the forces of our people and nation, in our Kampuchean Communist Party and our Kampuchean Revolutionary Army, and in our Party’s line of people’s war”." - Italics aren't needed.
• " In such context, " - You could lose this and go straight into the meat of the sentence.
• " ‘liberation army’ " - double speech marks
• " ‘people’s war’ " -ditto
• " ‘Pol Pot-Ieng Sary clique’" -ditto
• "However, like they had done before, the Kampuchean Army" - "However, as they had done before..."
• "In a major turning point in the triangle of..." A bit of a mixed metaphor. "In a major turning point in the course of..."?
• "in the scenario that China intervened" Worth adding "intervened in the conflict."?
• "To replace earlier losses and augment its units along the border, the Vietnamese Government drafted 350,000 men into the military." - Would be clearer if you reversed this: "The Vietnamese... to replace earlier losses...."
• " ‘unbridled fashion’" - double speech marks
• "‘liberation zones’" -ditto

All fixed.Canpark (talk) 10:36, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

Aftermath:

• " to avoid using the word ‘genocide’ " - double speech marks
• "Khieu Samphan was able to escape from the building on a ladder" - "by a ladder"?
• "In March 1992, the commencement of the UNTAC mission" - would "the start of the UNTAC mission" be simpler?
• "its efforts to rebuild the country were handicapped due to the lack of aid " - "by the lack of aid"?
• " Chinese bombardment of Ha Tuyen reached an all-time high" - "reached a peak"? (would be slightly less informal)

All fixed.Canpark (talk) 10:16, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

(b) it complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.

2. Factually accurate and verifiable:

(a) it provides references to all sources of information in the section(s) dedicated to the attribution of these sources according to the guide to layout;

• Looks generally really good. Minor bits:
• A couple of the volumes lack ISBN numbers.

I have added the ISBN numbers where necessary.Canpark (talk) 11:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

• The capitalisation doesn't quite fit with the MOS (the wiki prefers capitalisation for all words longer than four letters I think)

Do you mean the book titles??Canpark (talk) 11:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Yep - e.g. "Vietnam, past and present" would be "Vietnam, Past and Present".Hchc2009 (talk) 15:45, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Fixed.Canpark (talk) 09:46, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

(b) it provides in-line citations from reliable sources for direct quotations, statistics, published opinion, counter-intuitive or controversial statements that are challenged or likely to be challenged, and contentious material relating to living persons—science-based articles should follow the scientific citation guidelines;

• Looks fine at this stage. Hchc2009 (talk) 18:42, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

(c) it contains no original research.

• None spotted so far.Hchc2009 (talk) 18:42, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Broad in its coverage:

(a) it addresses the main aspects of the topic;

(b) it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).

Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without bias.

Appears so, will check as I work through it. Hchc2009 (talk) 07:10, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.

Stable.Hchc2009 (talk) 07:10, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Illustrated, if possible, by images:

(a) images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content;

Yes, although the explanation associated with the valid fair use of H 4 ill 639759 cambodia-phnom penh-1979-61.jpg might usefully be strengthened (I thought the explanation for Phnom Penh 1989.jpg was clearer). Hchc2009 (talk) 07:10, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

(b) images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.

Yes. Hchc2009 (talk) 07:10, 18 September 2011 (UTC)