Talk:Calty Design Research

Proposed merge with Toyota

Unnecessary page with details. Light2021 (talk) 16:33, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

The Toyota page is already too long. This page could use a bit of expansion about how and why it was created (I think I have those details in a book somewhere). But the Toyota page should have a single paragraph linking to the design studios such as Calty (US) and Toyota ED2 (Europe).  Stepho  talk  22:20, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

At its current state, I say the "article" should become a redirect to Toyota, as the things to "merge" are mostly a long list of cars. The only sources this train wreck has are a dead link to the Toyota USA site (a primary source) and another dead link to a dubious site. It seems an adaptation found its way to the Japanese Wikipedia. However, the J-Wikipedia has really low standards for inclusion, if any at all, so an article there isn't a proof of notability. Stepho-wrs, if you can improve the content, giving some context to establish notability and adding some references, that would be great. --Urbanoc (talk) 11:02, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

I've fixed the broken references. The boring list is obviously cribbed directly from http://toyotanews.pressroom.toyota.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=2384 . I will hunt around and see if I can dig up the details of how and why it was created. Could also consider changing the long list into a category. Another possibility is to create a page for the different Toyota design studios and redirect to that instead of redirecting to the massive Toyota article.  Stepho  talk  11:28, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

If the article can't be improved a little, I personally would be OK with either of your alternatives, they seem reasonable. --Urbanoc (talk) 11:38, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

I found a little bit of the Calty philosophy in the introduction by Edwin Lui for "Lexus: The Relentless Pursuit" https://books.google.com.au/books?id=LASz-mM8flAC&dq=calty (search within for "calty") but this isn't the detailed reference that I remember. I will keep searching my library.  Stepho  talk  14:31, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for taking care of this article, Stepho. As you are really working on improving it, I think we should put any merge / redirecting talks on hold for now. Toyota is one of the two largest automotive groups ( if not the largest) , so even minor / regional operations have a high chance of being highly notable. However, it's true finding sources can be difficult. Good luck on that! I'm taking a wiki-break of a few weeks from tomorrow. I'll help to search for sources after that.Urbanoc (talk) 17:40, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

Unfortunately Light2021 has decided to stab us in the back and has nominated the article for deletion. And he did this after our comments about ways to improve it. Now it's a race to improve the article before it is killed.  Stepho  talk  22:24, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

I found the main reference I wanted (about Kazuo Morohoshi) and have added it to the article. I need to go back and reword some of it but it's a start that hopefully keeps the executioner at bay. I also found a number of other references for later work concerning Edwin Lui's radical design techniques, Uchida's work and the work that Calty put into the Lexus LS400 and SC400 development. But this will need more time and I don't particular like doing this under someone else's artificial schedule.

The Morohoshi references also pointed out how he developed more Toyota design centers around the world. Plenty more info to come.  Stepho  talk  23:15, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

I have not stabbed you 3px 3px 4px grey;"> Stepho  talk . We are all contributor here and have their way of improving it. I appreciate your work also. But My only concern is Lets make Wikipedia what is truly stands for, that is what I am trying to contribute here. I have no favorites, but we are not writing a Corporate book for any company, as they might be suitable for books, but this is no book. Making Car listing and company division is no encyclopedia, its a plain and simple Book made into several articles. and I have not stabbed anyone, I have no personal reason to do so, neither I have any intention. Thank you. Light2021 (talk) 18:24, 7 July 2017 (UTC)

Then why is there a pain between my shoulder blades?

I have no idea what you are talking about when say "Corporate book". Like most editors on WP, I contribute to topics that interest me (which is mostly Toyota cars from the 1960s to 1980s) and I stick to the simple facts without trying to bias the reader's opinion. The US based Calty has designed several of Toyota's popular models, especially those aimed at the largest automobile market on Earth (the US). So it makes perfect sense to have an article on Calty.

When you first raised concerns about the article I was happy to jump in and fix the problems. From my first comments above I have laid out possible ways to fix it. And then you raised it for deletion. Why would you want to delete a page that is obviously being worked on to fix it? If we were heading in a direction that you thought was inappropriate then wouldn't it be better to participate in the discussion that was already underway?  Stepho  talk  22:13, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

Note OP has been blocked.

Improvements

Cullen328 (talk · contribs) pointed out this useful reference http://www.autonews.com/article/20140121/OEM03/140129978/how-calty-emerged-as-the-west-coast-design-pioneer .  Stepho  talk  14:43, 22 July 2017 (UTC)