Talk:Cairns/Archive 1

Archive 1

List of Radio Stations

I've had moved the poorly formatted list of radio stations from the bottom of the page to the communications section but I decided to get rid of it entirely. It looks ugly, and I don't see that it is necessary. Of the better articles about Australian cities, none contains a list of radio stations. In fact, featured articles should contain prose rather than lists. This article described the radio stations adequately in the Communications section before the list was added. Not even the Melbourne media article contains lists. I've pasted the list that I removed below. -- Adz|talk 04:15, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

List of Radio Stations:

• 4CA 102.7 FM (commercial)
• Sea FM 99.5 (commercial)
• Hot FM 103.5 (commercial)
• Kool FM 98.3 (commercial,Innisfail)
• 4EL 846 AM (commercial)
• Radio National 105.1 FM/93.9 FM
• JJJ 107.5 FM/97.1 FM
• ABC Far North QLD 801 AM/95.5 FM
• Classic FM 105.9 FM/94.7 FM
• 4CCR FM 89.1 (community)
• 104.3 FM (narrowcast)

Car Hire resource

I added car hire resource as many tourists visiting Cairns (due to its remoteness) will not have access to a vehicle whilst there

Unfortunately, wikipedia is not a travel guide, so I have removed the link. Regards, MartinRe 17:46, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Rainfall

I believe that the rainfall totals were off based on the graph. I added up about 6000 mm, not 2222.9. Where was the source that said 2222.9? Smart194 16:10, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

The source for 2222.9mm is from the BOM data for Cairns - Cairns PO where climate data was collected until 1957 and Cairns Airport where data is currently collected. 2222.9 is from the PO data the airport data average is 2002.8. The mean rainfall for Innisfail, which is a lot wetter than Cairns, is only 3559.1mm so 6000mm would appear to be incorrect. Mkfenn 23:02, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

climate chart

The recently added climate chart is difficult to read. The resolution is poor - even when it is viewed as a large image - and is almost impossible to read when it appears as a small image. I think the information contained within it is useful, but perhaps it could be represented as a series of graphs. Perhaps on or two could appear on this page and the rest could be included in a separate article about the climate of Cairns. The information within the graphs would be better presented if sumarised in words and in a table similar to the one on the Brisbane page. What do others think? -- Adz|talk 00:38, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree, the chart is hard to read. I think something along the lines of the Brisbane table, which is the format the BOM use, would be good.-- Mkfenn 08:56, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

To that end...(based on Airport data) -- Mkfenn 10:02, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Climate Table

	Jan	Feb	Mar	Apr	May	Jun	Jul	Aug	Sep	Oct	Nov	Dec	Year
Mean daily maximum temperature (°C)	311.4	311.1	301.5	291.2	271.6	251.9	251.7	261.5	281.0	291.5	301.6	311.3	291.0
Mean daily minimum temperature (°C)	23.6	23.7	23.0	21.6	19.8	17.7	17.0	17.4	18.6	20.6	22.3	23.3	20.7
Mean total rainfall (mm)	386.6	453.0	420.3	197.7	93.2	46.5	28.7	27.9	34.6	39.6	94.4	180.4	2002.8
Mean number of rain days	17.8	19.1	19.1	17.8	13.6	9.6	8.8	8.1	7.6	8.0	10.1	13.7	153.4
Mean number of clear days	4.0	2.4	4.1	5.0	6.8	8.9	9.8	11.5	12.3	11.8	7.7	5.5	89.8
Mean number of cloudy days	15.8	17.5	16.3	13.8	12.5	10.0	9.8	7.6	5.7	5.3	7.4	11.7	133.4
Source: Bureau of Meteorology

Well done!! This looks great. Much more legible than the graphics. -- Adz|talk 10:33, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Motorway?

This comment about the motorway has come back. Can somebody confirmwhether the road is actually going to be built, and if so, what the timeframe for it is? I have edited the text a bit to make it read a little better but it would be good if somebody could varify. Also, what is meant by 'motorway'? Is it simply a road upgrade, or will it result in a full blown freeway with overpasses and exit ramps? Or will it just be like the captain Cook Highway along the northern beaches? (in which case, i don't think it deserves special mention as a motorway). -- Adz|talk 10:41, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

I haven't heard of any plans for a motorway. Maybe someone needs to dig up some references for this one? -- Mkfenn 12:55, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

There is no mention of a motorway in the FNQ 2010 Regional Plan -- Mkfenn 13:01, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

The editor who made the edit about the motorway also made some very silly edits in other articles. I checked the street which the edit referred to and it doesn't exist in whereis.com.au, so I've deleted the paragraph about the motorway. -- Adz|talk 07:16, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

What he is reffering to is a strecth of the Bruce Highway that actually isn't Motorway, however, it is 3 lanes in each direction and it is a limited access road, but it is not a fully-fledged Motorway, Though however, the Kuranda Range road from Smithfield to Kuranda (up the range) is being duplicated to dual-carriageway and is also including interchanges and limited access ramps, but it isn't being called a Motorway. Gertzy 21 August 2006.

A picture of the stretch of the Limited Access part of the Bruce Highway is actually in the roads part of the article, but there has been no plan for a Motorway standard replacement of the existing Bruce Highway has not even been proposed yet, just duplication of some parts and upgrading to limited access dual-carriageway of 6 lanes, but no overpasses, interchanges etc. Gertzy

Shopping?

I'm not sure if the list of shopping centres is appropriate. What do others think? Mkfenn 20:59, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

I think that if other cities get to have articles on their shopping centres that are notable, then why can't some regional cities. Gertzy 30th August 2006.

I agree that the same principles should apply to article about regional cities and larger cities, however I don't think that shopping centres are notable enough to be mentioned in the main article. Having had a look at Canberra, Adelaide, Melbourne, Brisbane, Perth, I can't see any lists of shopping centres. I'd be in favour of removing the list. If other editors feel strongly about keeping it, perhaps a separate list article could be created (along the lines of the List of schools in Cairns article in the education section which I created after the list of schools in this article began getting a little out of hand). -- Adz|talk 06:25, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

That's what i thought. --Mkfenn 09:48, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Redbank Paragraph Reference deleted

Deleted the paragraph on Redbank as it is not correct and the irrelevant reference to the brickworks should have indicated it was a prank submission. William Tierney writing in the Around The Campfire column in the North Queensland Register 29.5.1971, said In 1878 a party left Cairns [note: Cairns is already establised as a port by this date] to prospect the head of the Inlet and the Mulgrave. They noted the vast rich timber resources and agricultural land. On returning with this glowing report,it took very little time for businessmen to pick Redbank and by September 30 that year,men were cutting cedar in the area. Note the page number is missing from the source a clipping from the archives of Glenville Pike, published North Queensland historian since the 1940's. There are numerous other references if this action is still questioned.tobalwin 11:34, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Length Of Article (History section)

Uploaded the expanded history as no one has objected over the last two weeks [maybe no one saw my notice of post in this section]. I was advised via a Wiki prompt during editing that the article is now 40k long but before someone starts hacking into the attempted quality section - the history - could we have some debate here. I felt the original article was, ironicaly for the subject, too dry which is why I added some relevant detail.

Perhaps the size could be reduced by deleting all the mundane photos. I realise they were probaly used as filler in the original article to break up the general information but I believe the expanded history would be a far better utilisation of the available memory. One quality, medium sized, East to South West panorama from inlet to range photo [it is available, I'll try and get permission to upload it] would be far more effective as a visual introduction and the climate table is hardly essential. tobalwin 11:34, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

I'd be inclined to fork off some of the larger sections to a new entries like Brisbane for example. Removing images will not help as image size is not counted in the 40KB total. The climate table is a common feature of most city entries and should remain. Mkfenn 22:07, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Expansion and Additions

Expanded the Captain Cook visit and declaration of the port of Cairns sections. Added the 1942 population evacuations of WW2, the declaration of the official tourist area, the date for inclusion of Wet Tropics as World Heritage, the significance of the Kuranda hippy period, the contribution to tourism faculities made by the Japanese Daikyo company and the recognition of Yarrabah clan aboriginal land rights. tobalwin 00:21, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Cairns History Timeline

Uploaded the suggested "Cairns History Timeline" to the new page section for consideration as a separate item. tobalwin 19:00, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Divided History

Divided the history into three sections - Early History / Foundation History / Modern History. I think this makes it less unwieldy and they're obvious subdivisions anyhow.tobalwin 09:24, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Hi. Firstly, I've reform I reformat the sections on this talk page relating to the History section and length of the article. I hope that's okay.

I haven't been keeping and eye on Wikipedia for several weeks as I've been away. Firstly, Tobalwin - good work on adding all the content to the History section. I think that there is probably enough there to spin off into its own article about History of Cairns, Queensland. Could we aim to convert the format into prose and pear down some of the content and move it into a separate "History" article. Good articles should contain consise prose rather than lists. Looking at featured articles such as Boston, Canberra, Johannesburg and New York, the History section is usually at the front (alternatively Geography) and usually isn't overly long. The London article splits its history up into subsections as has been done here, but again, good prose and not overly long.

On the same note, I think the 'Transport' and 'Urban Structure' sections are also a bit on the long side. This is mostly my doing as I wrote much of what is currently there, and I think the urban structure bit has already been peared down. I think both contain a little too much detail, particularly the 'Roads' section. Perhaps they could both be sumarised here while being expanded at a longer Geography of Cairns, Queensland article. The 'Transport' section here could be rolled into an 'Infrastructure' section similar to the Canberra and Melbourne articles.

These are just my thoughts and I don't want to step on anybody's toes so am willing to hear what others think.

Cheers -- Adz|talk 11:52, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

I think the history section needs to be split off into its own page. It is currently too long. (Also, are future events really counted as history? 2026 On April 24, the Yarrabah based Mandingalbay people became only the second aboriginal clan in Queensland, after the Djabugay group, to win recognition of their traditional lands...) Fosnez 17:46, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

I think its reasonably safe to assume that the 2026 was a typo. I've changed it. Tobalwin (or whoever added it) can change it back if it should read something other than 2006. -- Adz|talk 02:15, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree with the splitting off of some of the larger sections. The article is becoming too long. Mkfenn 09:31, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Obviously the 2026 mention was a mistake or a typo the reference gives the 2006 date.

How can the history of Cairns be split off? I take it an experienced Wikipedia editor has to make the recommendation. I applied at the article section to do so a few weeks ago but haven't heard any further.

Making the history more "prose" and less "list" is going to be a challenge as the major developements were not overly dramatic from a world history viewpoint but more a series of significant local steps forward which usually followed a similar theme in a particular cycle. As stated before, if more space is available I can expand a number of current "list" items to include reasons why that particular event or person was significant to the history of Cairns.

If a separate history article is created I'd like to have a go at assembling it by converting the present history section since I have considerable access to Cairns newspaper and document source material but I would appreciate knowing specifically what currently "listed" items other editors think need to be deleted or converted into "prose" and their specific Cairns history related reasons for such opinions. tobalwin 16:50, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

You can split the section off yourself by creating a new article called 'History of Cairns, Queensland'. You can start a new article by using this tool or by doing the following:

1. Type 'History of Cairns, Queensland' into the search field on the left hand side and click 'go'. It should come up with a page containing search results, like this.
2. Click on the red text that says "create this page". It should take you here
3. This gives you a new edit field with no text. You can enter text here to start the article off (or by copying and pasting).
4. Be sure to assign the new article to one or more categories. You do this by adding, for example, "Category:History of Queensland" or "Category:Far North Queensland to the bottom of the text in the edit field.
5. Once you've moved the text into the new article, remove the bulk of the section from the old article, leaving a summary. At the top of the section, provide a link to the main article by inserting the text "{{main|History of Cairns, Queensland}}" below the sub-heading. This will create a template pointing to the main article.

Let me know if you run into trouble. Good Luck. -- Adz|talk 00:03, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Relocated History

Relocated history to own article as suggested. Placed brief history summary on Cairns page. Will upload full references to History of Cairns article in coming week and flesh out rest of article shortly tobalwin 15:07, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Tagged Article

Would the contributors who wrote the various sections of this Cairns article please add their references as soon as possible so it can lose that credibility destroying "tag". It should be a lot easier for them as they presumedly would know where the information came from, others would be only guessing. tobalwin 20:27, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Cairns Population

Currently there is a bit of an edit war happening between myself and Thuringowacityrep over the population of Cairns. (with such choice phrases as wake up fool you wish cairns had that many people). In any case, I have correctly cited a reliable source in my edit and have now uploaded a scan of the article as proof. I will be changing the article soon. Fosnez 23:33, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Lets just wait and see what some other Editors have to say about this matter that don't live in Cairns before you change it back, I ask this because when I used a newspaper as a reliable source to show the population of Thuringowa as 63,000 people, it was changed back and I was told that we have to use the ABS website and the 2006 Census figures, I was also told this on the Townsville and Thuringowa Region population figures, that I have at over 163,000 if I use the source from the Townsville Bully and again when I made the change to the 163,000 figure it got changed back within a few minutes and was told that I need to use the current Census stats, and this is what I have done for years, but now it seems that because it is for Cairns it is ok to use some story from a Cairns based newspaper and I think that this is wrong, if you want to add the 140,000+ to the Cairns page, that is fine but don't have it in the main infobox, just add it in here "The city is rapidly expanding, with a population of 127,438 (as of Feb, 2006),[4] and is reliant on the sugar and tourism industries." Change the 127,438 to the 140,000+ put as of Sept 2007 add your ref and I'm sure this would be fine.
But I would like to here what other editors have to say on this. Thanks Thuringowacityrep 00:30, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

The 2006 Census has the population of Cairns at 122,731 and the Cairns City Council (a large geographical area) as 127,438 The Cairns Post article that Fosnez has uploaded relies on Cairns City Council figures which covers the larger area and also the source of the figure is the Cairns City Council itself so if the two figures are in conflict (which they are considering the article says that Cairns has grown 3% so about 5 000 people, not by 13 000 which would be needed to get up to the quoted 140 655 figure) the ABS has to be seen as the more neutral source as Cairns City Council has a vested interest.

I hope that clears up this little dispute, could both of you please keep calm when there is a dispute over content and refrain from edit warring, I know from my own experiences that it is only counterproductive. Cheers, WikiTownsvillian 05:09, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Climate

I have a couple questions about the climate section but I dont want to just make the changes, as there may be disputes. In this section Babinda is referanced as the wettest township. Just after this there are detailed statistics, about monsoonal data, and railway flooding. I feel that this reads poorly and does not belong in the Cairns page. My proposed change would be: The township of Babinda at the southern end of the city is one of Australia’s wettest towns, recording an annual rainfall of over 4,200 millimetres (165 in).

Also, the recent change made to climate: Cairns experiences a warm tropical climate. It experiences a wet season with tropical monsoons between December and April and a dry season between May and November, which, however, is not completely dry like in most of tropical Australia: there are frequent showers for most of this period.

I would like to remove: which, however, is not completely dry like in most of tropical Australia: there are frequent showers for most of this period.

Any Thoughts? Erick880 (talk) 21:50, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Urban layout

The information on site "Cairns is a provincial city and has a linear urban layout that runs from the south, at Aloomba, to the north, at Ellis Beach[6]. The city is approximately 52 km (32 mi) from north to south. " is not correct. The city runs from Mirriwinni to Ellis Beach and that's about 92 km. Please have a look at the map http://cairns.qld.gov.au/cairns/files/Street%20Index%20PDFs/Index%20Map.pdf Could someone to correct that information please ?

122.148.58.71 (talk) 12:33, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

statement in intro

A major attraction in Cairns is the lagoon.[neutrality disputed] Cairns Mayor Kevin Byrne declared in May, 2003 that topless sunbaking is permitted here as this area is a gathering point for people from around the world who may wish to do so. [4][5] why is this here? WP:UNDUE to me. Michellecrisp (talk) 14:11, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

• • I agree, that statement does not belong, probably added when it was news, and just left in. Also, I agree with the neutrality of that statement not being up to snuff. Good changes. Erick880 (talk) 21:32, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Mount Bartle Frere

• I agree with all of the editors removing it from the article, this does not belong in Cairns. Mount Bartle Frere is not in Cairns, but rather in the Atherton Tablelands section of FNQ. As it has been removed by two other editors and my vote is the third to make a consensus I am removing it pending four people saying it belongs. Erick880 (talk) 20:37, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

• So much for the discussion I asked for.....well seeing how it never happened, in the discussion I was going to say that maybe this small one sentence could be moved and added back near where the page talks about the Atherton Tablelands being part of the Cairns economic catchment, and where are all the editors that removed it????? I just went back looking and this has been on the page un-removed from at least Dec 8th 2006 so you have the facts wrong....only one editor removed it....I put it back after re-wording it a little and asked for this to be discussed and now you make up some editors and remove it.....I feel that this is a very important part of the page and needs to stay like it has for the last 2 years with no problems at all.

I agree with Erick880, whilst there is no definitive rules about the distance for inclusion, 70km from a city is pushing it. Happy for others to comment so we can gain consensus either way. Michellecrisp (talk) 00:06, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

• I'd like to know why it is ok for an editor to lie, so that they can remove important info....if i did that i would be blocked for sure.....Thuringowacityrep (talk) 10:26, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Firstly, I would NEVER accuse anyone especially a fellow editor of lying without knowing all the facts. I did however make a mistake, and counted the two edits w/o seeing they were by the same editor.

With that said, this section of Mount Bartle Frere does not belong in the Cairns Article, as it is irrelevant. Currently, Cairns is a B class article, and the more irrelevant and off topics we have in it is only going to hurt our chances of getting an A on importance. Google is the most used search engine, because they are selective and even exclusionary with data, focusing on relevance rather than inclusion. While Mount BF is important to some sections, to include it in Cairns only dilutes the importance of the article overall.

Also, I am an editor that makes many edits, and patrols recent changes for vandalism, I try to be objective, and really do not have time to self promote, or lie. Please respect fellow editors in the future, and question before accusing. Erick880 (talk) 08:20, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Gimuy

The township of Cairns was never called Gimuy. It simply was situated at the same location as a region that was called Gimuy. It is misleading to state that the city of Cairns was actually formerly known as Gimuy. It would be more accurate to state that the area had previously been called Gimuy in the Yidinji language.--Jeffro77 (talk) 15:13, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Pronunciation

I think that the addition of (cans) as a pronunciation is incorrect. It is not a proper phonetic spelling and I can't recall having ever heard anybody say Cairns this way. I have already removed it once and it has been replaced so will wait for others opinions on the matter. Mkfenn 22:54, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

I was born and raised in Cairns, and my family are original settlers and I say "cans" as does everybody else i know!! Angra 10:06, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Also a Cairns resident here and I pronounce it as I would "cans" in the following sentance: I bought two cans of cat food. - Fosnez 10:34, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm also a Cairns resident and have never heard anyone say "Cans" it's more like keːnz with the 'a' being very hard a almost like an 'e'. Mkfenn 02:25, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Mkfenn is correct. There is a slight difference to the word 'cans', and it is better to use the proper IPA phonetic symbols in Wikipedia articles anyway. Also, I think it would be worth noting the alternative IPA pronunciation, kɛɹnz, as often pronounced by many Americans, Europeans, and some non-r-dropping Australians.--Jeffro77 (talk) 00:56, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm relating the pronunciation on the Australian dictionary pronunciation of "cairn" (ie, /keːn/) to that of the town of Cairns using Australian IPA from Australian English phonology. --203.220.171.156 (talk) 11:51, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

This is an inaccurate basis. The name of Cairns is based on the surname, Cairns, not the English word, cairn (midden).--Jeffro77 (talk) 15:57, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

That maybe so, but they are both pronounced the same! I'm using the basis of pronunciation on spelling similarity not the origin of the name. Before changing it again, please have a look at the Australian English phonology article on the IPA notation for the Australian dialect. You are using the wrong IPA notation for the Australian dialect. There is no "r" in the standard Australian pronunciation of "Cairns". --203.220.170.5 (talk) 05:23, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

As compelling as you may believe your argument to be, it does not determine proper pronunciation of 'Cairns' to be presented in an encyclopedia. Most people in Bolton (and indeed Britain) drop the 't' from their pronunciation, but that does not change the proper pronunciation of the location. Local dialect does not overrule proper pronunciation. And many people in Cairns do have an 'r' present in their pronunciation of the city anyway, particularly those who are better educated.--Jeffro77 (talk) 11:18, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

The most authoritative source for Australian English is the Macquarie Australian English dictionary, and I would accept whatever IPA pronunciation that it offers. I don't presently have access to this source.--Jeffro77 (talk) 13:52, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

I have looked up and added the city's Australian pronunciations given by the Macquarie Dictionary using Australian IPA notaion. This should remove the assumed pronunciations various editors may have come across through word of mouth and any disagreements that may have arisen between the pronunciations they may have heard. – Marco79 02:55, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

I don't mean to step on any toes, but using the long vowel [æː] — which is considered by some linguist as an allophone of /æ/ — might be going into POV territory. I've seen transcriptions with the use of [æ] in the pronunciations of the name "Cairns", but I haven't come across the use of [æː] in any pronunciations. I would be happy to keep using [æː], if a source can be found. 203.94.135.134 (talk) 23:25, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Undoing just to suit you is not on. I suggest that you undo you latest revert since this is a dispute. I've looked in the so called source (Infact the Fifth Edition of Macquarie Dictionary) as TAFE yet I can't find the one that the anon claims. I've even had the English teacher look at it and agrees that it's "kæːnz". Bidgee (talk) 11:43, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

I stopped undoing your reverts after you reverted my last edit[1]. Asking an "English" teacher is not verifiable proof that a certain pronunciation is correct, read WP:NOR. As I stated above I would be happy to keep the long vowel [æː], if a verifiable and reliable source for it can be found, which has not be demonstrated here. If you did look in the Macquarie Dictionary — which I have just done at my local library — then you may not have had a comprehensive edition that includes the entry for Cairns. The Macquarie Dictionary is a reliable source and does not use the long vowel but the short vowel in a broad transcription of the pronunciation. This vowel /æ/ in the dictionary represents either the long vowel [æː] or short vowel [æ], this article uses a broad transcription not narrow. 203.94.135.134 (talk) 00:14, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

This revert was clearly made by you under a different IP[2]. The ISP matches to the IP's within this talk page section. Just because the ISP and IP which is different to the ones in this talk page section and the latest revert are different to the IP's in which you're now editing from doesn't mean you can go and use another IP just to push your POV. The location of the IP also match (Melbourne) and the same reasons were used for the revert which makes me clearly think it's just one editor. The source ATM is unverifiable since I've looked in a library and haven't found the so called claims you have made. Bidgee (talk) 00:48, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Now your the one with bad faith. That last revert was not me, just someone with perhaps similar views. Anyway I just looked at both IP addresses — mine and theirs — and clearly both IPs are from different ISPs, there is no matching that I can see. With regards to your other claim of not finding the source referred to in the article (ie. Macquarie Dictionay), either your TAFE library is not very good or you have not looked very hard enough to find the entry on Cairns, because it is there. And looks something like this:

Cairns² /… kænz/ noun a town in north-eastern Qld, … [named after William Wellington CAIRNS¹]

And is located between the entries Cairns¹ and Cairns Group. Nb the slashes representing a broad transcription.

I don't think you understand what I have been saying in my posts and it seems you clearly don't understand broad and narrow transcriptions very well. I'm trying to explain about content rather than who I may or may not be. You have clearly failed to show why the unverified pronunciation /kæːnz/ should be used instead of the verifiable /kænz/. I think we may need a neutral third person for a dispute resolution and perhaps take this to a user talk page rather than use this page. 203.94.135.134 (talk) 01:47, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

You're the one who assumed bad faith by saying I threatened you when all I did was add a 3RR warning FFS. It's clear you haven't read what I said. but to make it simple, Comments in the article's talk page which has been made by the Comindico Australia IP's match what you have said and the way it's written. I'm a person who assumes good faith but when I see a connection then I clearly see that you're one editor. Just because you have a different IP now means nothing since you could be using your works/internet cafe/library IP and using your home IP to revert to try and bypass the three revert rule. Hey I've edits under a number of IP's but only when logged in. Really I now could careless about the inaccuracies when we have editors deliberately using IP's to push there own agender within articles. It's no wonder why Wikipedia is losing valued long serving editors. As I've said before I haven't found the claim you have made. Bidgee (talk) 05:25, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

I don't have home internet, and the only internet I use is at work, which is a shared connection with approximately 900 employees. That is all I can say on that. Well, if you haven't found the entry on Cairns in the MD then I can only assume you didn't look hard enough, I even, in my last post, helped with where it can be found in the book. I do agree that there are many problems with Wikipedia. 203.94.135.134 (talk) 23:17, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Gimuy in lead

I have moved the reference to Gimuy out of the lead. It does not refer to an alternative name of Cairns or the etymology of the city's name. It is a name of a larger area than Cairns itself, and is not synonymous with the specific area on which Cairns exists. It is therefore not specific enough to Cairns itself to be notable for the lead.--Jeffro77 (talk) 10:55, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Culture

Alliance Francaise de Cairns

--Mkfenn 03:13, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Italic text My husband is an actual Cairns with history dating back to the 10th century. I am interested in reading about how it came to be that one of our brethren decided to name the city after himself. If one wishes please contact us at m2cairns@cox.net Thank You 72.200.116.21 10:23, 26 March 2007 (UTC)Mike & Lyss Cairns==History Expansion==

Haha the 10th century? Australia was discovered by Europeans in the 16th century. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Matthewhicks93 (talk • contribs) 09:13, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm a third generation Cairns born resident. The following suggestion for an expansion of the history section is based on information found in "Tropication" a public domain document held in the archives of the Cairns Historical Society. Normally such information would be taken from already available published material but, unfortunately, there are no books covering the full length of Cairns history to access. The only serious attempt at a history, "Trinity Phoenix" was released in 1976 and, besides some echoed racism and a hard to read format which did not separate footnotes from the main text, the book glossed over the very important post 1945 period when Cairns reinvented itself as a tourist destination. Apart from that, in the 30 years since then, many important historical events have occured that should be mentioned. The detail chosen here was distilled mainly from "Tropication" and checked with the microfilm record of Cairns Post newspaper articles. The selection is not random. Eventually of course a comprehensive history of Cairns will be written but until then I think the following should help give an interesting overview.

........[Information now uploaded was originally quoted here]tobalwin 15:28, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

This is really good information but I don't like the way it is presented. The "decades" format annoys me. The history section has now become very unweildy. Maybe the new information should be in a new entry (History of Cairns Timeline)and a short synopsis put in the history section. Also the article doesn't flow very well. It's more like a series of dot points than an encyclopaedia article. Also putting "too many references to mention here" should be removed and the references added in the same style as the rest of the article. Mkfenn 22:18, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

I will delete the history sample in the discussion section as it is now uploaded.

The comment "the decade format annoys me" hardly seems "neutral" Any chance of an expansion with reference to Wikipedia guidelines? Whatever happened to "be bold'?

To me the decade format is a deliberate way of dividing the information up so its not so much a data dump slab. It also divides the history roughly into theme cycles which is sorta how it historically panned out, for Cairns anyhow. The original version gave a name to each ten year period, the pioneer cycle 1866 - 1875, the settlement cycle 1876 - 1885, the architecture cycle 1906 -1915 , the rebirth cycle 1936-1945 etc but I decided not to include them because they may not have been considered "neutral" enough although such theme divisions are very common in history books covering a considerable period of time and I think it would be reader friendly to include them.

The term "decade" could be deleted if it is thought to be confusing to some readers, while the ten year division could still be kept as the theme is implied by the events listed.

The internal decade format, either open or suggested, also ties the history in with the traditional celebrations, the 50th anniversay, the 75th anniversary, 100th anniversary etc which don't take reference to any overall the 1880's, the 1990's etc, "decade" divisions.

I have no objection to the creating of a separate "History of Cairns Timeline" entry with a link to the main encyclopedia article and may submit one to see if it's accepted by the powers that be. It would mean the history references wouldn't clash with the basic Cairns article references and a separate entry would also have enough space for a slight expansion of all the events listed to make the article flow better.

Because of the simplification, in a limited space, of a number of important events over a considerable period of time I can't see any way of avoiding a certain amount of "list feel", but as the aim with this particular section,like the rain chart, is surely the giving of a consise, digestible yet not superficial, overview of the key events of a history, a certain amount of "list feel" is inevitable.

I think history overview browsers are more likely to want to read a series of quick change, short theme paragraphs broken up by highlighted years then a single multi-theme essay.

The previously mentioned slight expansions, such as I recently uploaded to the Captain Cook visit, World War Two period and aboriginal land rights recognition items, should help without distracting too much. All the events mentioned in the history have relevant, and interesting, extra information from the accompaning newspaper articles which I deliberately ommited to keep the word count down. If the item is moved to a new entry position where more word count is available I could reinstate the ommited information which should help "the flow".

I have deleted the "too many references to mention here" and the word "decade" in the uploaded expansion until a decision is made about moving the timeline to its own entry. Putting the multiple references in the present history article would really exhaust the space limit.

As regards the photos, I just think there could be better ones. Ones taken from the upper floor of an esplanade located or near located high rise complex capture the whole city area and the background hills and ranges, Walshs Pyramid etc.

tobalwin 11:20, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

"regional city"

The first sentence says Cairns is a "regional city". What is that? I suggest that it be defined or the word "regional" be removed, unless it's obvious to everyone but me. —JerryFriedman (Talk) 17:01, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

I think most Australians would recognise the term "regional city" as being in contrast to a state capital. If the term is confusing for readers in other areas, it could possibly be replaced by a term that represents a better world view, though as it is an Australia-centric article, it should not be replaced with a term that is better understood (only) by readers in some other country.--Jeffro77 (talk) 22:47, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

pronunciation

Do some locals really pronounce the /r/ in "Cairns"? kwami (talk) 14:03, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

No, they don't, unless they are from somewhere other than Australia. Australians only ever use an /r/ when at the beginning of a syllable and the /r/ sound can only ever be heard at the end when the next syllable begins with an /r/, and Australian dictionaries back this up. Some may think they are hearing an /r/ sound when in fact they are are not, eg. the word are is pronounced in AusEng as /aː/, whilst in AmEng it would be /ɑr/. – Marco79 14:40, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Okay, will take it out. I didn't want an edit war without some justification. kwami (talk) 14:42, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

It's locally pronounced "Kenz" with a drawn out "e", although enough people call it "cans" (with an æ) that one wouldn't even need to note it was an alternate, simply a second pron. Orderinchaos 16:24, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

The "cans" pron. is secondary, then? I've seen conflicting orders. kwami (talk) 16:53, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Yes, the "cans" pronunciation is secondary, and the "kehnz" pronunciation is primary, according to Australian Dictionaries. – Marco79 02:51, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

'kenz' is not an accurate presentation at all. The vowel sound is the same as in 'care', with a diminished r.--Jeffro77 (talk) 21:58, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

I think, what Orderinchaos was saying is that the "e" in "kenz" is long, as in "air" (transcribed: [ˈeː]), which means his presentation was accurate enough. – Marco79 02:51, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

The point is that in Australian English /Ɛ:/ is a phoneme (as in "air", "bear / bare" and "cairn"). It contrasts with /Ɛ/ (as in "bed", "hem" and "Ken"), and with /æ/ (as in "bad", "ham" and "can"). There is no phoneme /æ:/. In practice, the lengthening on /Ɛ:/ usually slides into a schwa. It is not the case (as Jeffro says) that there is a diminished "r" in words like "air", "bear" and "bare" when pronounced with an Australian accent, although North Americans often imagine they can hear it. There is no "r" in the pronunciation of these words. The only valid pronunciations of this place name are [kƐ:nz] and [kænz]. [kænz] would probably be considered a broader pronunciation.

MarcusCole12 (talk) 05:58, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Jeffro, if [e:] as the local vowel is wrong, how does making it rhotic help? Cairns accent is fully non-rhotic, is it not?

Regardless, we're reffing Macquarie, so we need to either use their pronunciation or remove the ref, or we're falsifying data. — kwami (talk) 00:11, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, I was actually thinking of "æ"—which had been used previously—when I said "is just wrong" in my edit summary, however it didn't seem worth the effort to clarify after the event at the time, because the optional /ɹ/ is pronounced by a fair few Australians and many foreigners (many of whom also use /r/). The fact is that rhotic speakers pronounce the r in Cairns; generically the word is pronounced the way the speaker would normally say "'care' + nz". (From memory, the Macquarie also says I 'should' pronounce Monday like 'mundee', but that hackneyed pronunciation is pretty old-fashioned, and the majority of Australians say 'munday'.)--Jeffro77 (talk) 14:33, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Yasi

While up to 30,000 people were told to evacuate (whether this amount did so is unknown but official sources state QLDers rather then Cairns), two hospitals were evacuated as a precaution due to the fact they are located in a low area (storm surge risk) but the affects on Cairns was much less then it was to the south. Adding Yasi is OR as it has been highlighted by officials and media that the affect on Cairns was nothing like Larry. Bidgee (talk) 03:18, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

The preparations, alerts, evacuations of residents and hospitals, the power outages, the cleanup, and even the lack of damage in Cairns are notable facts that were extensively reported by reliable sources and thus are not original research. I may write a paragraph backed up by sources if I find the time. And please learn the word usage. The noun is effect. Affect has a different meaning. - BorisG (talk) 12:01, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

The same happened along the QLD coast (north of Cairns and south of Townsville), a line has to be drawn. Larry clearly cause more damage to Cairns then Yasi. Bidgee (talk) 09:39, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

The 'effect' on Cairns is not limited only to the amount of damage. Thousands of people in Cairns evacuated their homes, many homes were without power for several days, and there was significant media coverage. If someone were making an argument for somewhere like Cooktown, your argument about 'a line has to be drawn' may be valid, but it does not apply here.--Jeffro77 (talk) 09:56, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Now, it seems that User:Bidgee is claiming that Yasi did not affect the Cairns region, making a plaintive and redundant request for a source. He also attempted to distort the criteria claiming that Cairns was not "severely affected", though the article does not list such as the criterion. It is blatantly clear from the broad media coverage that Cyclone Yasi impacted on the Cairns region.[3][4][5] (He has also retributively edited at my Talk page after he was warned about the 3RR.)--Jeffro77 (talk) 10:43, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Get you fucking facts right, I didn't say it didn't that Yasi didn't affect Cairns, I DID NOT breach the 3RR. Hospitals were evacuated due to the storm surge forecast (which didn't, thankfully), black-outs are debatable (number of reason), damage was far less then Townsville but you have failed to show a source that was post Yasi not pre.

50,000 isn't a lot with a population of 164,356 (not even half). Bidgee (talk) 10:54, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

The criteria as stated in the article are "Notable cyclones that have affected the Cairns region". You are claiming Yasi does not qualify for that list. 'More damage than Townsville' is not a criterion.--Jeffro77 (talk) 11:03, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

What would you define as notable?--Bidgee (talk) 11:09, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Your argument is wrong, and you are clearly not a person to be reasoned with. I will simply wait to hear the views of other editors, and then the correct information can be restored.--Jeffro77 (talk) 11:15, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Why are you asking what 'notable' means? Are you claiming that Yasi was not a 'notable cyclone', or are you claiming that it did not affect the Cairns region? If neither, the point you think you are making is redundant.--Jeffro77 (talk) 11:17, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

So we add cyclone(s) which cause evacuations, that never have a direct impact and claims it as notable? I have asked you for sources that state it was notable for Cairns. Cyclone is notable in its own right but clearly you didn't get the point that what would you define as a notable cyclone for Cairns. Bidgee (talk) 11:22, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

You clearly do not comprehend the criteria. The criterion is notable cyclones that affected Cairns. The criterion is not cyclones that affected Cairns in a notable way (though the effects on Cairns were indeed notable, and more notable than other cyclones already listed.) The fact that other areas were affected in a worse manner does not negate the effects in Cairns.--Jeffro77 (talk) 11:25, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Well based on your theory, Cyclone Hamish would be added just because it was a "notable cyclone" which had an affect on Cairns. Bidgee (talk) 11:34, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Don't be ridiculous. The effects on Cairns—which are not limited to damage and include the significant local disaster management and recovery operations—are notable and widely reported in the media.--Jeffro77 (talk) 11:38, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

In any case, I have lodged a 3rd opinion request.--Jeffro77 (talk) 11:38, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Noticed this at WP:3O and while I'm not giving a third opinion, I'm contributing to the discussion. This is an unbelievably simple issue. There are numerous reliable sources pointing to the effect of Yasi on Cairns, a simple google search gives this: [[6]]

I agree with Jeffro that the effect of a cyclone doesn't have to be notable for a notable cyclone to be said to have affected the area. Yes, the effect wasn't as disastrous as with Larry, but it still affected the area. A lot of the cyclones on that list didn't have the effect of Larry either.

It should be noted that I've had run-ins with Bidgee before, as have other users. I note the personal attacks against me that he has decided to include on his Userpage. -danjel (talk to me) 11:52, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

It is permissible to simply delete personal attacks that have no other purpose, even from another editor's User page. See WP:TALKO.--Jeffro77 (talk) 11:58, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Additionally, Innisfail, Mission Beach, Tully are generally considered to be within the Cairns region.[7][8][9][10][11] etc etc--Jeffro77 (talk) 13:56, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

(Third opinion) I think that Yasi qualifies as a "notable cyclone that affected the Cairns region". So on the current state of the article, it should stay. However, the word "region" should be dropped as this article is about the city, not the region. Further, I think it would be preferable to change the format of this section of the article from a list to prose. The prose would emphasise the cyclones that have had the greatest effects. Like Cyclone Willis (1927), which is bizarrely note mentioned at all despite causing dozens of fatalities and wiping out much of the city.[12] So the Yasi dispute seems to be to be a bit of red herring standing in the way of some much-needed improvements to the section. Once the important cyclones are emphasised, it might become clear that cyclones like Yasi warrant either a passing mention or none at all. --Mkativerata (talk) 22:37, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

I'd not heard of Cyclone Willis. Clearly it should be added if notable. Note that the Cairns region is only secondary to the issue here, as Cyclone Yasi had a notable effect on Cairns itself anyway. It does not have to be the worst-damaged area to be notable, and the media coverage makes it blatantly clear that Cairns was affected in a notable way.--Jeffro77 (talk) 04:27, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

Instead off trying to decide what is notable and what isnt notable to be plonked in this article, why dont you make an List of tropical cyclones in Queensland article similar to the ones we have on North and South Carolina or New York?. I say this as i had a quick look at other articles of Cities in the Philippines, The US or even other parts of Australia. Also someone said to me the other day it isnt WP's job to figure out what is notable and isnt.Jason Rees (talk) 18:10, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

It's the media sources that indicate notability of the cyclone and its affects on the area, not Wikipedia editors. Those sources indicate that Cairns was affected in a significant way, with the Australian government even granting emergency recovery payments to affected Cairns residents. However, if there's precedent in other articles, your suggestion sounds reasonable. The Cyclones section here could then have a See also to that article. That said, there may be too much overlap with List_of_Australian_region_cyclone_seasons to warrant a Queensland-specific list? About half the cyclones listed there affected Queensland.--Jeffro77 (talk) 08:17, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Sorry for the late response. If the List of Australian region cyclone seasons, was edited to look like the List of Atlantic hurricane seasons one then there would be no need for that list to be there. Thus there would be no overlap.Jason Rees (talk) 00:59, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Article tone

This article needs massive amounts of work to improve the overly promotional manner it is written in. Specific examples include:

• "It is a popular travel destination for foreign tourists because of its tropical climate and proximity to many attractions. The Great Barrier Reef can be reached in less than an hour by boat. Daintree National Park and Cape Tribulation, about 130 km (81 mi) north of Cairns, are popular areas for experiencing a tropical rainforest. It also serves as a starting point for people wanting to explore Cooktown, Cape York Peninsula, and the Atherton Tableland."

This can be rephrased, but tourism is a primary industry of the Cairns region, and is therefore encyclopaedically relevant.--Jeffro77 (talk) 16:29, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

• "An intercensal estimate for the resident population of the Local Government Area as of June 2008 was 158,700." Is this article about the LGA? If so, what is the point of City of Cairns? If not, what relevance does the LGA population have to this article, which should be using the SD population per WP:AUST convention not an inflated LGA pop.

Agree. Wasn't aware of the separate City of Cairns article.--Jeffro77 (talk) 16:29, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

• "The Mulgrave River and Barron River flow within the city's boundary but not through the city itself" What does this mean? Isn't "within the city boundary" through the city? Or is there confusion between Cairns the locality and the LGA?

"Through the city itself" refers to the CBD. This can be reworded to make this more clear.--Jeffro77 (talk) 16:29, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

• "A notable feature of the Cairns esplanade is a swimming lagoon with adjoining barbecue areas. In May 2003, the then Cairns Mayor Kevin Byrne declared that topless sunbathing is permitted here, as the area is a gathering point for people from around the world who may wish to do so.[6][7] A boardwalk allows pedestrians and cyclists to move along the foreshore from the lagoon." - in the lede no less.

Not necessary in lead. Topless sunbathing is not typical in Australia, so the distinction seems notable enough.--Jeffro77 (talk) 16:29, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

• This area is serviced by the Redlynch Central Shopping Centre, a relatively new shopping centre, located in the fast growing area of the Redlynch Valley." uncited and promotional.

Deleted.--Jeffro77 (talk) 16:29, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

• What is the point of the entire "Nearby localities" section?

This can probably be reworded. The section indicates areas in the Cairns financial catchment area. Babinda and Miriwinni are actually outer suburbs of Cairns.--Jeffro77 (talk) 16:29, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

• "A major Special Forces training base was established at the old "Fairview" homestead on Munroe's Hill, Mooroobool. This base was officially known as the Z Experimental Station, but to locals and service personnel alike, it was "The House on the Hill"." Uncited and arguably unencyclopedic. Certainly an unencyclopedic tone.

It is relevant to local military history, and the common name is notable to long-term residents of the area (e.g. servicemen).--Jeffro77 (talk) 16:29, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Citation now added. Summerdrought (talk) 01:48, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

• "After World War II, Cairns gradually developed into a centre for tourism. The opening of the Cairns International Airport in 1984, and the building of the Cairns Convention Centre established the city's overseas reputation as a desirable destination for the tourism and business conference markets" Uncited and blatantly promotional

A city's primary industry is encyclopaedically notable. Whether the destination is "desirable" can probably be removed as POV.--Jeffro77 (talk) 16:29, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

• The "Tropical Cyclones" section is fairly obvious WP:UNDUE and the Cyclone Larry section is most certainly WP:UNDUE. These need to be incorporated into the text of the climate section. Not every cyclone needs a mention - in the same way that not every bushfire needs a mention in Victoria (Australia).

The subsection can probably be removed.--Jeffro77 (talk) 16:29, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

• "The city's proximity to the Great Barrier Reef, the Wet Tropics of Queensland, and the Atherton Tableland makes it a popular destination. The city contains hundreds of hotels, resorts, motels and backpackers hostels. Activities in the region include golf, white water rafting, cruises to the Great Barrier Reef, and coach tours to the Daintree Rainforest, Atherton Tableland and Paronella Park. There are also scenic flights, day trips to Kuranda, crocodile farms, and a food-and-wine tour visiting tropical fruit wineries" Entirely uncited and reads as if it is taken from a tourism website

Though a city's primary industry is notable, some of this is fairly mundane (golf??) and clearly unnecessary.--Jeffro77 (talk) 16:29, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

And so it continues. I intend to start removing uncited and unencyclopedic statements over the next week or two. I don't expect to see a FA come from it but this article should at least be presentable given Cairns' importance to WP:AUSTRALIA. I would appreciate any help provided. -- Mattinbgn (talk) 09:53, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Go for it. This article is on my 'B-list', and I've copyedited the article before, but have tended to rephrase and refactor existing information rather than removing or adding. There's quite a bit of wording I've never really been comfortable with. Assistance would be greatly appreciated.--Jeffro77 (talk) 10:08, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

After twelve weeks, the editor hasn't returned to make any changes, so I have made some of them and removed the tone tag.--Jeffro77 (talk) 06:18, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

Xavier Herbert

Not sure on how to do any of this wiki stuff, but I just thought I'd throw some bits in. Someone might want to add Xavier Herbert to the list of famous people who have lived in Cairns, also the Barron Falls Hydro station is listed as being in Kuranda. The turbines etc (the actual power producing part) are down in the gorge below the falls. Whilst they are just inside the border of the TRC, I don't think anyone identifies the bottom of the gorge as being part of Kuranda. It's not readily accessible other than by a road from Kamerunga — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.45.150.174 (talk) 04:37, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Cheers, I am entering now. --FNQ (talk) 05:48, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Climate

Why is the climate chart colour of some North QLD Regional Cities/Towns different compared to Sydney, Melbourne or Brisbane and contain a pastel colour (|temperature-colour: Pastel)? Any Reasons? Luxure (talk) 06:03, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

population & density

Currently, population is cited from 2010 and density from 2006. That can't be right, also the infobox says the population is from date "30 June 2012" while clearly the source has 2010. 82.141.67.208 (talk) 22:38, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

I have updated the number and source per the latest available data from teh Australian Bureau of Statistics. (I haven't verified population density.)--Jeffro77 (talk) 11:42, 25 February 2014 (UTC)

I have now updated the statistics based on the Local Government Area, which is the context of this article. The higher figure is for the Statistical District, including west to Mareeba and south to Cardwell, which is not the area considered in the scope of this article. (It is not clear why the intervening editor claimed previous data was from a 1960 source.)--Jeffro77 (talk) 02:11, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

Pronunciation of Cairns

Recently an editor has opposed my edit on the pronunciation of Cairns. The article lists the pronunciation of Cairns including and /r/. Australian English is non-rhotic, Australians only ever use an /r/ when at the beginning of a syllable and the /r/ sound can only ever be heard at the end when the next syllable begins with an /r/, and Australian dictionaries back this up. Some may think they are hearing an /r/ sound when in fact they are are not, eg. the word are is pronounced in AusEng as /aː/, whilst in AmEng it would be /ɑr/. A good example of this would be the pronunciation of the word 'air', 'chair', 'stair', 'dare', 'rare' and 'scare'. Australians do not pronounce the /r/ in these words. Cairns is locally pronounced "Kenz" with a drawn out "e", although enough people call it "cans" (with an æ) that one wouldn't even need to note it was an alternate, simply a second pronunciation. The city is also named after Governor Cairns, who pronounced his name 'CANS' (like two cans of coke), not after a cairn. Having also spent a considerable time in Cairns myself, never have I heard it pronounced 'CARE-nz', except the time a bus driver was informing all the tourists onboard that it is a common misconception and is not pronounced that way. I don't see why any editor c/would disagree. Luxure Σ 00:36, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

I'm no linguist, but, as a Queenslander, I think it sounds just as you say. There's no "r". I don't know if there is a "reliable source" for this sort of thing though. Kerry (talk) 07:18, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

Excellent, and since there seems to be no opposition, I will revert changes now. Luxure Σ 23:48, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

For what it is worth, I am a long term resident of Cairns. It is definitely pronounced Cans by the locals here. Summerdrought (talk) 23:55, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

No. We go by reliable sources here, not anecdotal argument from personal experience. The pronunciation is actually the same as the way people say care (which in much of Queensland is with an indistinct 'r') followed by /nz/. This is supported by dictionary pronunciation guides, including those produced in Australia.--Jeffro77 (talk) 01:46, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

It is not the general practice on Wikipedia to state local pronunciations of place names as correct and broader pronunciations as 'erroneous', and doing so asserts local bias. The name Cairns, both the city and the surname of its founder, is pronounced the same as the plural of the English word cairn. (Note the contradiction in the objection about Australians not pronouncing the /r/ in words like air, and then claiming that the pronunciation of Cairns is not like "CARE-nz", ignoring the premise of the previous statement that confirms that r-droppers do in fact pronounce Cairns in the same manner that they pronounce care-/nz/).--Jeffro77 (talk) 01:56, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

According to Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Pronunciation "Local pronunciations are of particular interest in the case of place names. If there are both local and national or international standards, it may be beneficial to list both." Kerry (talk) 05:07, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

Yes, but not to call standard pronunciations 'erroneous'. The article already includes standard and local pronunciations.--Jeffro77 (talk) 05:08, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

Simply include the local pron. and then include it as 'also' Luxure Σ 10:09, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

What do you think of my edit now? Luxure Σ 10:11, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

It's certainly better than your previous wording. I'm still not convinced that local pronunciation trumps the standard pronunciation. Therefore the original wording is probably still better.--Jeffro77 (talk) 10:18, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

I have restored the pronunciation per what the cited source (the Macquarie Dictionary, an authority on Australian English; also consistent with Australian English phonology) actually says rather than estimations of what people 'think they hear'. I have also replaced the incorrect use of the template so that phoneme details correctly appear when hovering over each letter. If anyone wants to provide a different pronunciation, please provide a source. The standard pronunciation has been provided first—the relevant guideline says nothing about putting local pronunciations first, it just says to include them.--Jeffro77 (talk) 14:30, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

But it's not just the locals who pronounce it 'CANS'. Almost everyone in Australia does. Luxure Σ 04:03, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

The local pronunciation is stated in the article. It must have taken you ages to interview everyone in Australia.--Jeffro77 (talk) 04:18, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

'Cans' is the only way I have heard it be pronounced. - Shiftchange (talk) 04:29, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

That's fascinating. I'm not sure it constitutes a usable source though.--Jeffro77 (talk) 04:36, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

It may well be fascinating but define 'locally'. Locally as just FNQ (NOT "TNQ") or Australia-wide? Luxure Σ 05:19, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

The relevant guideline about providing local pronunciations doesn't impose any definition of 'locally' as being a township or even a country, nor does it state that they should be given primacy; it simply says to include local pronunciations. The article already does so.--Jeffro77 (talk) 06:24, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

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Pronunciation

@Awesomemeeos: Given that Cairns is in Australia and that the article is tagged {{Use Australian English}}, shouldn't the pronunciation in the lede be the Australian pronunciation with non-Australian pronunciation as a note rather than vice versa? Kerry (talk) 00:21, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

@Kerry Raymond: Okay, I will fix that. I just wanted the non-local pronunciation to be forst. I will fix the note. — ^{they call me} AWESOMEmeeos ... [ˈɔɪ̯]! 06:26, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

Transport section suggestion

Tho it is stated that Cairns is a transport hub, there is no mention of the major named highway which links Cairns to the Gulf, the Savannah Way. Boscaswell talk 03:57, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

@Boascwell: Don't be shy! Add it. We already have the article for it Savannah Way I suspect it passes through many towns whose Wikipedia articles don't mention it, so feel free to update them too! Kerry (talk) 06:42, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Cairns (disambiguation) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 17:45, 9 May 2019 (UTC)